The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[k_and_e]

	Quote:	greenmount
	How do you prove which country? Where do they go to school or kindergarten, or whatever. I think most folks think this way - if I pay taxes in a country I want all those social benefits too, otherwise please let me pay taxes back home where you propose to have my social benefits adjusted to.

The practical problem might be one of the following:
1. two parents working in different countries. Who has the right for the benefit? (same for two employed parents in the same country, although administration is then a bit easier)

2. benefit based on employment or on residence. you need to harmonize that.

[greenmount]

	Quote:	k_and_e
	The practical problem might be one of the following: 1. two parents working in different countries. Who has the right for the benefit? (same for two employed parents in the same country, although administration is then a bit easier) 2. benefit based on employment or on residence. you need to harmonize that.

As it is now - you can't receive child benefit from two places. You probably have to choose. It is a small amount anyway, here and there, in relative terms. I don't think people rely on these money. What people want is a higher salary and they probably wouldn't leave their countries if they could find it there.

[k_and_e]

	Quote:	greenmount
	As it is now - you can't receive child benefit from two places. You probably have to choose.

Yes - but you need to check that too

[greenmount]

	Quote:	k_and_e
	Yes - but you need to check that too

Lol, have some electronic social data exchange system in place. But then again, this should be extended to all 27 countries me thinks....

	Quote:	k_and_e
	Yes - but you need to check that too

Form E411

[k_and_e]

	Quote:
	Form E411

Couldn't you have posted this 2 pages ago?

	Quote:	k_and_e
	Couldn't you have posted this 2 pages ago?

Didn't know it two pages ago. Lunchtime google adventures.

	Quote:	greenmount
	As it is now - you can't receive child benefit from two places. You probably have to choose. It is a small amount anyway, here and there, in relative terms. I don't think people rely on these money. What people want is a higher salary and they probably wouldn't leave their countries if they could find it there.

No different to the situation today apart from the actual amount of the payout.

Between CH, A, FL and (I think) D we have the nice situation where it is normally paid via the mother if the mother is working but is then uprated once a year to the rate applying in the other involved country if that is higher. So a mother working in CH receives Swiss benefit but if the Father is working in FL he gets the difference between the CH and higher FL rates on top.

Example FL: https://www.ahv.li/leistungen/fak/differenzausgleich/

[Blueangel]

Something I'm finding deeply disturbing today, is the proposed deselection of Luciana Berger MP for Wavertree.

If speaking any criticism of Corbyn as a person, or of his Brexit policy, is truly worthy of deselection, then Owen Should be at the front of the queue. As he isn't, it makes me question why they're gunning for Berger, and most importantly, why the Labour leadership aren't offering any support?

https://www.channel4.com/news/labour...ith-our-values

[John William]

Here's a chance for a lively Brexit debate with Jacob Rees-Mogg in the flesh !!

A Cambridge economics Professor is challenging arch Brexiteer and chairman of
the ERG to a Naked debate on Brexit, with the subject of the debate being that
Brexit will leave the British Economy very exposed in the future.

BBC News - Cambridge Professor challanges JRM to a naked debate on Brexit

Did you watch/listen to her full Conference? She makes very good points- not sure the nakedness helps ... but? And her high pitched squeak does not help either- but she is worth listening to.

	Quote:
	...which very much still doesn't say (and what you are implying) that he could simply rock up fresh of the plane from Romania and claim child benefit there and then. Regulations and other rulings make it clear this is not the case; what this actually says is that once he has been employed in Ireland and contributed, then he cannot be discriminated against because of his nationality. .

Did you read the ruling? It’s literally what it says. Entitlement to family benefit is not dependent on employment.

	Quote:	greenmount
	I remember a similar discussion when Loz was proved wrong with numbers, as he never consulted statistics actually and he still kept reiterating his own prejudices. First of all, the law is very clear - you can't claim child benefit if you don't provide a work contract. It's like here. I suggest anyone who speaks out of their arse to check the statistics first....they might have some huge surprises...;-)

Prove it or it didn’t happen.

	Quote:	greenmount
	First of all, immigration from East to West (or South in my country's case due to similarities in language and culture) has started long before free movement of people, .

So this is bollocks. Look at any immigration graph to the UK and see how it exploded after 2004. Remind me what happened then?

	Quote:	bigblue2
	it would be a logistical nightmare to work in one country but have to claim family allowance from another, and open to huge amounts of fraud, not to mention the language barriers, average romanian civil servant isn't going to understand a word average irish civil servant is saying and vice versa.

	Quote:
	€194... I'm not sure that would be enough to persuade parents to move to another country with the express intention of ripping off that country's social support system.

Average salary in Romania is about €1000, take home is about €500-600. Child benefit in Germany is €200 per child. You do the math.

Handinf the kids to granny and grandad while you go off to work in Western Europe has been happening for years.

	Quote:	John William
	Here's a chance for a lively Brexit debate with Jacob Rees-Mogg in the flesh !! A Cambridge economics Professor is challenging arch Brexiteer and chairman of the ERG to a Naked debate on Brexit, with the subject of the debate being that Brexit will leave the British Economy very exposed in the future. BBC News - Cambridge Professor challanges JRM to a naked debate on Brexit

So this is what mental illness looks like.

[TobiasM]

You know, I am still waiting to hear a single valid reason for the UK to leave the EU? And even stranger I am still yet to hear of a single positive outcome from the UK leaving the EU. by that I mean how it will benefit the UK in any positive way at all!

Go on leavers, enlighten me!

[Clocker]

	Quote:	TobiasM
	You know, I am still waiting to hear a single valid reason for the UK to leave the EU?

All of the reasons were already well known back in the early 90s, if not earlier still.

I'm amazed at just how long it has taken to leave.

	Quote:	Loz1983
	Did you read the ruling? It’s literally what it says. Entitlement to family benefit is not dependent on employment.

...and what it doesn't say is that you can just turn up and get. Coz you can't. Every member state has entitlement rules whichprevent that until you legally become a permanent resident .

Once you are legally resident then they rightly are prevented from discrimination.

	Quote:	Clocker
	All of the reasons were already well known back in the early 90s, if not earlier still. I'm amazed at just how long it has taken to leave.

But you still fail to quote any.

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:
	...and what it doesn't say is that you can just turn up and get. Coz you can't. Every member state has entitlement rules whichprevent that until you legally become a permanent resident . Once you are legally resident then they rightly are prevented from discrimination.

Permanent resident takes 5 years..... so that's not the same as being legally resident.

	Quote:	TobiasM
	You know, I am still waiting to hear a single valid reason for the UK to leave the EU? And even stranger I am still yet to hear of a single positive outcome from the UK leaving the EU. by that I mean how it will benefit the UK in any positive way at all! Go on leavers, enlighten me!

We were discussing this earlier this week in the office. No-one has been able to list a single verifiable reason to leave. Muchos puffery and talking in riddles but nothing substantiated which can’t be easily debunked.

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:
	We were discussing this earlier this week in the office. No-one has been able to list a single verifiable reason to leave. Muchos puffery and talking in riddles but nothing substantiated which can’t be easily debunked.

Ultimately Britain will need to pay for unfunded pensions in other countries, not taking on billions of other people's debt, that alone is enough for me.