The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[roegner]

	Quote:	Clocker
	Well unless you have a huge Swiss pension and/or substantial wealth already in CHF, Switzerland is clearly not the country to retire in. Pensions are also heavily taxed here, so another financial disadvantage on top of the cost of living itself. In Germany for example pensions are only partially taxed and won't be fully taxed until 2040. No wonder so many Swiss have moved there. I'm sure there are other countries where this is the case.

Still, the percentage of taxes you pay in Germany is much much higher. Cost of living is lower but a lot will depend on where you live (housing in Munich is almost as expensive as Zurich)

[k_and_e]

	Quote:	Troublawesome
	I filtered Loz after reading his first 10 posts of incoherent nonsense, flamebaiting, 0-logic posts. It still baffles me why people spend pages replying to someone like that and don't just ignore all together. There are quite a few posters worth replying to here, seems a waste of space and turns the thread into spam to reply to someone who consistently is proven wrong and continues with false arguments or cut out lies. Unfortunately many of you still quote him so I am forced to see his posts that way...please let the trolls out of the conversation.

Nice post. How many red blobs do you have again?

[Odile]

So Leavers don't want to be 'ruled by Brussels'.

But MEPs are elected, in each EU country, in properly run elections. Now many citizens choose not ot take part- but that is not the fault of the EU, is it? The European Commission is appointed by individual national Governments- to defend their own country's national interests.

And yet, they are happy to go to WTO and be ruled by bureaucrats in Geneva, and hand real power to the whims of outside unelected groups.

And never mind the House of Lords, right on our doorstep

The 'good news' : Grayling has cancelled the phantom of Ramsgate contract - partly because the company is clearly incompetent and in massive debt-and partéy because there is Port either- as Ramsgate would be totally unable to deal with those large Ferries and the ensuing traffic. Over 11,000 applications from haulage companies for licences....and just 984 awarded. What are all the other haulage companies supposed to do post Brexit? Who will transport all the goods we want to export?

It is repetitive- but I'll say it again 'you just could not make it up'.

In the meantime, Caroline Lucas has been travelling up and down the country to talk to Leavers in Communities left totally 'lost' in the post industrial area, and in the grip of Austerity and cuts by this Government. She has listened carefully to what they say, and it is clear they are suffering terribly- and that they did vote as a reaction to austerity and not being listened to. And that it had nothing to do with the EU per se. Also that they believed the lies re NHS, and re Turkey joining, etc. One of those regions she visited is Cannock.

[Blueangel]

	Quote:	22 yards
	Nice sequence of tweets. But, erm, you do realise that @complainforleo is a parody account, don't you?

Yes, but like 'Kenneth Clarke's account', and based upon recent comments, you can almost hear him say those words.

	Quote:	Loz1983
	You are doing a Blueangel and arguing against a point I wasn’t making.

And you're doing a typical Loz, thinking that everything someone writes in a post, is a direct response to you, or a tiny part of your post that has been quoted. Personally, I'm a long way past "arguing against" your points. Debating is about expanding upon your views in an effort to establish common ground, and build upon that.

[marton]

	Quote:	Clocker
	Well unless you have a huge Swiss pension and/or substantial wealth already in CHF, Switzerland is clearly not the country to retire in. Pensions are also heavily taxed here, so another financial disadvantage on top of the cost of living itself. In Germany for example pensions are only partially taxed and won't be fully taxed until 2040. No wonder so many Swiss have moved there. I'm sure there are other countries where this is the case. https://bazonline.ch/basel/stadt/ein...28900358?track https://www.swissinfo.ch/ger/gesells...ch-zu/43611206 https://www.bluewin.ch/de/news/schwe...er-127065.html

At one time I did consider retiring in Germany but I did some research including joining the EF companion forum toytown in Germany and basically there were more cons than pros.
I understand the German lower taxes on pensions only fully applies to people who moved before 2005.

Overall the best solution seems to be to live in Switzerland and take advantage of the lower % taxes and lower % mortgages but near the German border so one can shop at lower prices; even better prices than the Germans themselves because of the tax refunds.

[Jdr]

	Quote:	marton
	At one time I did consider retiring in Germany but I did some research including joining the EF companion forum toytown in Germany and basically there were more cons than pros. Overall the best solution seems to be to live in Switzerland and take advantage of the lower % taxes and lower % mortgages but near the German border so one can shop at lower prices; even better prices than the Germans themselves because of the tax refunds.

Or cash in your FZK, lowly taxed in CH, then move to DE. Buy house outright, no wealth tax, no pension income to tax, lower costs than CH...


Jos

[Clocker]

	Quote:	roegner
	Still, the percentage of taxes you pay in Germany is much much higher.

If you work, yes.

	Quote:	marton
	At one time I did consider retiring in Germany but I did some research including joining the EF companion forum toytown in Germany and basically there were more cons than pros. I understand the German lower taxes on pensions only fully applies to people who moved before 2005.

I'm not sure about the 2005 rule (but have heard of something to that effect).
We have friends (an unmarried couple) who moved their residence their in 2007. They do not pay any tax on their pension at all and do not submit tax returns, whereas in CH they would pay quite a large sum of their annual income in tax. So it seems to work for new arrivals too.
Their pensions are in CHF as is their mortgage. They benefit from CH health system at a lower price than the Swiss themselves. They can afford to live in their own house and not throw away money on rent. In CH they would never have been able to do that.
Shopping is only a smaller part of outgoings and Germany is generally 65% cheaper, so an extra 10% (approx.) off is not going to change anything.

[marton]

	Quote:	Clocker
	I'm not sure about the 2005 rule (but have heard of something to that effect). We have friends (an unmarried couple) who moved their residence their in 2007 and they do not pay any tax on their pension at all and do not submit tax returns, whereas in CH they would pay quite a large sum of their annual income in tax. So it seems to work for new arrivals too. Their pensions are in CHF as is their mortgage. They benefit from CH health system at a lower price than the Swiss themselves. They can afford to live in their own house and not throw away money on rent. In CH they would never have been able to do that. Shopping is only a smaller part of outgoings and Germany is generally 65% cheaper, so an extra 10% (approx.) off is not going to change anything.

The 2005 rule was in the links that you posted earlier.

[Clocker]

	Quote:	marton
	The 2005 rule was in the links that you posted earlier.

It was and I have read something about it before. I may be entirely wrong but as I have understood it the % changes for everyone each year until it reaches 100% in 2040.
I asked our friends about it and they said they only had to say what their pension was to the 'Finanzamt' in Konstanz in 2007 and have never had to do or pay anything since.

[roegner]

	Quote:	Clocker
	If you work, yes. I'm not sure about the 2005 rule (but have heard of something to that effect). We have friends (an unmarried couple) who moved their residence their in 2007. They do not pay any tax on their pension at all and do not submit tax returns, whereas in CH they would pay quite a large sum of their annual income in tax. So it seems to work for new arrivals too. Their pensions are in CHF as is their mortgage. They benefit from CH health system at a lower price than the Swiss themselves. They can afford to live in their own house and not throw away money on rent. In CH they would never have been able to do that.

No, taxes are also much higher if you are retired. Right now 76% of your pension is taxed with the max as from 2040.

You start paying taxes if your pension is more than 9k EUR. If for example you have a pension of more than 52 K EUR you pay 26,5 - 38,7 % taxes.

Much lower than CH??

[Clocker]

	Quote:	roegner
	No, taxes are also much higher if you are retired. Right now 76% of your pension is taxed with the max as from 2040. You start paying taxes if your pension is more than 9k EUR. If for example you have a pension of more than 52 K EUR you pay 26,5 - 38,7 % taxes. Much lower than CH??

I didn't ask them how much their pensions were. I merely asked about tax. They said they didn't pay any in Germany as they only had their pensions and no other income. Maybe they've been forgotten in the system.
They definitely pay no tax and have not done for over 10 years.
Also they were told they don't have to fill in a yearly declaration again (after the first one in 2007) until they are contacted.
I can't believe their pensions are less than €18'000.-- combined.

[Odile]

Something definitely does not 'add up' here

I know a few people living under the radar in France - no idea what will happen to them after Brexit ...

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	Odile
	Something definitely does not 'add up' here I know a few people living under the radar in France - no idea what will happen to them after Brexit ...

Probably stay under the radar, if they are illegal now I doubt they are very bothered by any changes in the law.

[Clocker]

	Quote:	Odile
	I know a few people living under the radar in France - no idea what will happen to them after Brexit ...

Judging by the current state of affairs they could be deported back to the UK on night flights to Stansted. I guess that's one way to legally not pay your fare.

[Blueangel]

	Quote:	Odile
	The 'good news' : Grayling has cancelled the phantom of Ramsgate contract - partly because the company is clearly incompetent and in massive debt-and partéy because there is Port either- as Ramsgate would be totally unable to deal with those large Ferries and the ensuing traffic.

Have you seen the full story now? It's quite a stunning piece of utter ineptitude on Grayling's part. I can only wonder how much of the £13.8million deal would have ended up flowing into the hands of the deal's Irish backers.

	Quote:
	But that contract has been ripped up after Irish company Arklow Shipping, which had backed Seaborne Freight, stepped away from the deal.

https://news.sky.com/story/pressure-...umped-11632409

[Today only]

More like "par for the course" with that idiot

[Odile]

Sheer bloody madness:

https://www.facebook.com/Channel4New...1447444883157/

the Port of Dover still has no information on plans, zilch, nought, rien du tout, nada.

[TobiasM]

	Quote:	Odile
	Sheer bloody madness: https://www.facebook.com/Channel4New...1447444883157/ the Port of Dover still has no information on plans, zilch, nought, rien du tout, nada.

On the bright side the firm that had a non existent fleet of ferries won’t be adding to the ports congestion as the contract was rescinded.

[greenmount]

	Quote:	Clocker
	I didn't ask them how much their pensions were. I merely asked about tax. They said they didn't pay any in Germany as they only had their pensions and no other income. Maybe they've been forgotten in the system. They definitely pay no tax and have not done for over 10 years. Also they were told they don't have to fill in a yearly declaration again (after the first one in 2007) until they are contacted. I can't believe their pensions are less than €18'000.-- combined.

You know, when I read or hear about such stories I always ask myself how on earth is it possible. And where, of all places, in Germany which is completely digitalised and has a fiscal and anti-fiscal evasion system that many countries would die for.
Hmmm, anyways. Maybe they are forgotten in the system because pension is considered a taxable income everywhere. Also, health insurance - if you don't pay it you don't get it.

[Odile]

	Quote:	TobiasM
	On the bright side the firm that had a non existent fleet of ferries won’t be adding to the ports congestion as the contract was rescinded.

They were supposed to by-pass Dover and go via Ramsgate - but as they had not done any prior studies before making the decision- it took them weeks to realise the port is not suitable, just does not have the depth required (yes, I know).