The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[bowlie]

Integration is not just learning the language. It is a lot more than just that.

[Blueangel]

	Quote:	k_and_e
	Sorry but that's just an excuse, combined with the fact that you can pretty easily survive here when speaking English so that there is not really a need to learn the language.

That's hardly fair comment when German is now my partner's 5th language and he spends a minimum of 2hrs every single day trying to advance his knowledge of it. It's simply a fact that his current shift pattern allows time for this amount of study.

	Quote:	Blueangel
	That's hardly fair comment when German is now my partner's 5th language and he spends a minimum of 2hrs every single day trying to advance his knowledge of it. It's simply a fact that his current shift pattern allows time for this amount of study.

I think to get a C permit, you only need A2 spoken German in Zurich, and that is basically being able to say your name and how old you are. With the greatest of respect, your other half sounds like a gifted linguist, with two hours of study a day, I'd expect him to have that licked in less than a month.

	Quote:
	I think to get a C permit, you only need A2 spoken German in Zurich, and that is basically being able to say your name and how old you are. With the greatest of respect, your other half sounds like a gifted linguist, with two hours of study a day, I'd expect him to have that licked in less than a month.

... especially considering that one of his other languages is almost certainly just badly spelt German.

[amogles]

	Quote:	Blueangel
	That's hardly fair comment when German is now my partner's 5th language and he spends a minimum of 2hrs every single day trying to advance his knowledge of it. It's simply a fact that his current shift pattern allows time for this amount of study.

Is that how he justifies the time (and money) spent watching footie down at the pub with his Stammtisch mates?

[curley]

	Quote:	Blueangel
	My partner didn't learn the language the first time he lived in ZH because he was on rotating shifts, so could only attend the course he enrolled on every other week. Many people have difficulty fitting lessons in around their work commitments.

Two years for him then

	Quote:	Fish Paste
	You are forgetting the mass exodus from blighted Britain after Brexit. I'm considering setting up a rubber dingy import business and flogging them to the desperate down in Dover.

Nobody will let them in - tit for tat. They can move "the Jungle" from Calais to Dover

[Blueangel]

	Quote:	amogles
	Is that how he justifies the time (and money) spent watching footie down at the pub with his Stammtisch mates?

He doesn't drink or like football, but DB has a point. It helped at A1 level, but now at B1, the Greek is more useful surprisingly.

	Quote:	st2lemans
	And how many of those are Brits who don't have Swiss licenses? Tom

Passed at least 2 on the way home last night. Probably more as I know several newcomers that haven't got round to changing yet.

Oh and it seems to have escaped you that the quote wasn't entirely serious.

	Quote:	Blueangel
	He doesn't drink or like football, but DB has a point. It helped at A1 level, but now at B1, the Greek is more useful surprisingly.

I did a beginners' German course before I moved here, and the participant who struggled most was an Afrikaans speaker. He complained that the languages were close enough to be confusing, but not close enough to actually wing it!

[Fish Paste]

	Quote:	curley
	Two years for him then Nobody will let them in - tit for tat. They can move "the Jungle" from Calais to Dover

As long as the French empty it first, and it can be renamed to 'the forest glade'.

[amogles]

	Quote:
	I did a beginners' German course before I moved here, and the participant who struggled most was an Afrikaans speaker. He complained that the languages were close enough to be confusing, but not close enough to actually wing it!

A relative of mine used to teach Dutch evening classes in Germany.


She said one of the big problems was that many German-speakers came in with a nonchalant attitude thinking they could pick up an easy language without making much effort. That attitude may have helped them wing it up to about A2 but after that the disilluisonment set in when they realized they had to either make an effort or drop out.


That said, I know a Romanian family living in Spain who picked up near-perfect Spanish in under a year. So having it easy doesn't always make learners lazy.

[MusicChick]

	Quote:	Clocker
	I'm amazed that CH was so lax in dishing out the Permit Cs to people who hadn't learnt the language after 5 or 10 years in the first place. After one year here, the language should be learnt. Anything else is simply ridiculous.

Would you allow 2yrs with French? It is really not so simple.

A2 is a joke, but the idea that a language is actually learnt after a year is a myth. Yes, after a year you get some understanding but you can't explain that Bern was occupying Vaud and why, or that Calvin was a weird dude.

[amogles]

	Quote:	MusicChick
	Would you allow 2yrs with French? It is really not so simple. A2 is a joke, but the idea that a language is actually learnt after a year is a myth. Yes, after a year you get some understanding but you can't explain that Bern was occupying Vaud and why, or that Calvin was a weird dude.

On the other hand, most schools in Britain teach French. Ok, the quality of teaching may be horrendous in cases, and people will forget everything as soon as they have passed their exams, but you're still not learning a new language from ground zero. They say you never truly forget a language.

[curley]

	Quote:	Fish Paste
	As long as the French empty it first, and it can be renamed to 'the forest glade'.

I think you'll be allowed to call it anything you like. It will be all your's.

	Quote:	MusicChick
	Would you allow 2yrs with French? It is really not so simple. A2 is a joke, but the idea that a language is actually learnt after a year is a myth. Yes, after a year you get some understanding but you can't explain that Bern was occupying Vaud and why, or that Calvin was a weird dude.

Are you making a cultural or linguistic point here? I'd argue after a year or two, most people could have a crack at "Calvin était fou".

[MusicChick]

	Quote:	amogles
	On the other hand, most schools in Britain teach French. Ok, the quality of teaching may be horrendous in cases, and people will forget everything as soon as they have passed their exams, but you're still not learning a new language from ground zero. They say you never truly forget a language.

Absolutely, that is if you had learned it in the 1st place. Overall, expats here do seem to make the effort, I don't know many expats that would be completely oblivious to integration. I am not sure if it is the school French they had in their home country or the fact that people will just not speak English with them here. Not as much as in ZH or Basel, Bern.

B2 I took at the GE university was pretty tough, I am probably C2 now, but still do not think that it takes a year to "learn a language".

	Quote:
	I did a beginners' German course before I moved here, and the participant who struggled most was an Afrikaans speaker. He complained that the languages were close enough to be confusing, but not close enough to actually wing it!

I can second that. The confusion starts with pronunciation traps (that which is a phlegm-spreading guttural cough in Swiss German (K) is a clean consonant in Afrikaans, and an innocent G in Swiss German becomes a contagious health hazard in Afrikaans; compare the respective pronunciations of the word "Kindergarten") and multiplies with vocabulary "false friends" and grammar pitfalls.

[greenmount]

	Quote:	TobiasM
	Well it seems like some people on the Forum believe, as they are already here, it doesn't matter, simply because they won't be personally affected.

Sorry, I was trying to see the glass half full...it could be worse, that's all. It might look as a cynical attitude but there are not so many things we can control you know.

	Quote:	greenmount
	Sorry, I was trying to see the glass half full...it could be worse, that's all. It might look as a cynical attitude but there are not so many things we can control you know.

I think some of the Brits on here need to acknowledge their "Anglo privilege". The fact remains that EU or non-EU, people from the United Kingdom are always going to be in a better position than people from less prestigious corners of Europe.

I can't imagine such a generous quota being offered to the citizens of Bulgaria or Romania, should they ever find themselves in a position to require one.

Perhaps we should quit with the Chicken-Licken act and check our privilege once in a while.

[TobiasM]

	Quote:	greenmount
	Sorry, I was trying to see the glass half full...it could be worse, that's all. It might look as a cynical attitude but there are not so many things we can control you know.

I do see, but I can't rejoice in the fact that our freedoms post Brexit become more limited. I am still surprised that so many people see the freedom of movement of people in a unified economic area such a threat, and that they would willingly choose to leave the relative stability of that economic and cultural union and lose their rights to participate in its decisions and democratic processes including the loss of their own freedom of movement in order to protect themselves from the threat of foreign intereference and a fluxating migrant workforce.