The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[TobiasM]

	Quote:
	Well, what do I know? You've already told me you think I'm thick as pigshit.

I didn't say that, just that you like to give yourself an air of superior intellectuality, especially where your opinions are concerned.

I know you can take it.

[amogles]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	Well, I’ll admit there was a bit of that, but then again I wouldn’t be me if I didn’t engage in a little agitation. I never even mentioned the role France played in the Holocaust, the joke that was “La Résistance“, the collaborators, the GDR style informants, the summary executions... the point is that France had absolutely no business being declared a “victor” in WW2.

I don't think the French deny they owe a huge debt of honour, especially to the Americans. There are lots of streets and squares in French cities named after allied, and especially American generals I am not aware of any attempts to cover that up. But its also part of the French political mentality that there is no shame in biting the hand that feeds you. If you look further back into history you will see the special love hate relationship between France and America goes back a lot further.

So it’s not Brexit but manufacturing an enormous plane that nobody wants that is a threat to jobs.

Airbus scraps A380 superjumbo jet as sales slump

	Quote:	Blueangel
	Facts vs your outdated belief. The onus is on you to fill out your belief to make it persuasive. Whether you care to do that is another matter, and only you can decide.

Irrelevant facts.

Are you seriously telling me that in Switzerland (which is the context in which we were discussing Anglo privilege before you started blethering on about visas round the world), if you found yourself sat in an interview waiting room alongside an equally qualified Sri Lankan, Romanian and Serb, that you wouldn't enjoy an unfair advantage?

See again the quotas listed above. Anglo privilege.

	Quote:	TobiasM
	I didn't say that, just that you like to give yourself an air of superior intellectuality, especially where your opinions are concerned. I know you can take it.

That's all in your head. Meanwhile, the thick as pigshit Leave voter is a trope you've gleefully propagated.

	Quote:	Loz1983
	There is nothing to clarify, and I stand by it. 200,000 babies born during the occupation of France to German fathers...

As per usual, you conveniently left out a couple of bits of salient information. You are quoting stats for the period 1941-49. There is no agreed figure, but it is between 75-200k, let's say 150k for simplicity's sake. There were 6.4m births in that time, which means as a percentage, births to German fathers are running at about 2.3%, given that presumably many of the women involved probably had multiple births to the same (or maybe even multiple) German fathers, we are looking at 1% or less of all births.

So, you are judging a group by the actions of a small minority of them. Not like you

[k_and_e]

	Quote:
	As per usual, you conveniently left out a couple of bits of salient information. You are quoting stats for the period 1941-49. There is no agreed figure, but it is between 75-200k, let's say 150k for simplicity's sake. There were 6.4m births in that time, which means as a percentage, births to German fathers are running at about 2.3%, given that presumably many of the women involved probably had multiple births to the same (or maybe even multiple) German fathers, we are looking at 1% or less of all births. So, you are judging a group by the actions of a small minority of them. Not like you

Also, don't forget regions like Alsace, which has quite mixed populations.

[Blueangel]

	Quote:
	Are you seriously telling me that in Switzerland (which is the context in which we were discussing Anglo privilege before you started blethering on about visas round the world), if you found yourself sat in an interview waiting room alongside an equally qualified Sri Lankan, Romanian and Serb, that you wouldn't enjoy an unfair advantage?

If all things were equal, my EU1 status could have been a deciding factor in Switzerland.

	Quote:	Loz1983
	So it’s not Brexit but manufacturing an enormous plane that nobody wants that is a threat to jobs. Airbus scraps A380 superjumbo jet as sales slump

...and what is there to suggest it's not both?

[greenmount]

	Quote:	Chuff
	Dude come on... if you were a French woman and had the chance to keep yourself and your family safe from harm and well-fed by sleeping with a German officer... are you trying to tell us that you wouldn't, when you know people are routinely beaten and shot and food is scarce? Self-preservation makes people do a lot of things that they don't necessarily want to do and there is nothing surprising or even morally wrong about the majority of those women doing what they did.

This. But you're asking others to have empathy and see the situation for what it really was. Very difficult for some.

	Quote:	Blueangel
	If all things were equal, my EU1 status could have been a deciding factor in Switzerland.

But never the fact that you're British, or that you're a native speaker of English, or white, or...

[greenmount]

	Quote:	amogles
	I don't think the French deny they owe a huge debt of honour, especially to the Americans. There are lots of streets and squares in French cities named after allied, and especially American generals I am not aware of any attempts to cover that up. But its also part of the French political mentality that there is no shame in biting the hand that feeds you. If you look further back into history you will see the special love hate relationship between France and America goes back a lot further.

They might owe some gratitude but it doesn't mean they're not supposed to criticise current problems. Who is supposed not to? Who is the judge of it all? And the French are just being French - not shy to criticise or laugh at whomever they see fit....a bit like the British me thinks.

[st2lemans]

	Quote:
	Well, what do I know? You've already told me you think I'm thick as pigshit.

Well, you DO live in Glarus!

Tom

[Blueangel]

	Quote:
	But never the fact that you're British, or that you're a native speaker of English, or white, or...

You never stipulated that the role required a high level of English.

I'm currently attending daily German classes because it's 100% impossible 'to wing it' in my profession, in Switzerland, with just English. A Serbian, Romanian or Sri Lankan applicant with my exact qualifications, plus a high standard of German, would definitely secure the role way above me.

[amogles]

	Quote:	Blueangel
	I'm currently attending daily German classes because it's 100% impossible 'to wing it' in my profession, in Switzerland, with just English. A Serbian, Romanian or Sri Lankan applicant with my exact qualifications, plus a high standard of German, would definitely secure the role way above me.

But then you're not comparing yourself to people with the same qualifications as yourself.


Language is a qualification too.

[TobiasM]

	Quote:
	That's all in your head. Meanwhile, the thick as pigshit Leave voter is a trope you've gleefully propagated.

Yes, because leave voters are often unable to present credible reasons for their decision. In the light of the scale of fibs that sold the referendum and in the face of evidence presented by, economists, political scientists, politicians etc, etc seems like it was a fairly dumb decision. Then again, who am I to say anything? You are also obviously correct!

	Quote:	Blueangel
	You never stipulated that the role required a high level of English. I'm currently attending daily German classes because it's 100% impossible 'to wing it' in my profession, in Switzerland, with just English. A Serbian, Romanian or Sri Lankan applicant with my exact qualifications, plus a high standard of German, would definitely secure the role way above me.

You're really not getting this, are you?

Everything else being equal, being British affords you privileges denied to others with equal qualifications.

I suppose you think white privilege and male privilege are imaginary too, then?

	Quote:	TobiasM
	Yes, because leave voters are often unable to present credible reasons for their decision. In the light of the scale of fibs that sold the referendum and in the face of evidence presented by, economists, political scientists, politicians etc, etc seems like it was a fairly dumb decision. Then again, who am I to say anything? You are also obviously correct!

Thank you for proving the point I've been making for two and a half years.

You just can't help yourself, can you?

[MusicChick]

	Quote:	Blueangel
	Facts vs your outdated belief. The onus is on you to fill out your belief to make it persuasive. Whether you care to do that is another matter, and only you can decide.

I think the point is, I do not think that anyone feels like persuading people who continue to knock him down. Only because the opinions or experiences differ.

Did I spell it correctly? Is it still English enough?

Back to your quest...What was it? Facts? Yours?

	Quote:
	You're really not getting this, are you? Everything else being equal, being British affords you privileges denied to others with equal qualifications. I suppose you think white privilege and male privilege are imaginary too, then?

From those countries on Blueangel's list then for one already (and in future probably 2 of those) probably not any more, or at least in the medium term future. Romania already is EU and Serbia probably will be one day. Any EU employer faced with a Brit for whom he has to jump various paperwork hurdles and squeeze into a quota is likely in future to plump for an equally qualified (by your definition) Romanian. Probably Swiss employers as well.