The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH - Page 903

Mikers · #**18041** 20.02.2019, 16:58

	Quote:	higgybaby
	I hope this quote is accurate. Proof of Dutch courage before the press conference? They mushed harv mished ouwwt the "Hic" aaat zthe end of the qwuooowte. (Or could it have been written by a sozzled hack who mis-quoted ? Surely not.): Attachment 135976

im telling you, this woman could drink you under the table. I bet she's seen the wrong side of last orders more often than we've had hot dinners.

bowlie · #**18042** 20.02.2019, 17:04

	Quote:
	Prospect of UK passport holders having to pay €60 for a Schengen visa bubbling up again - Brexit related but mainly coming out of the Gibraltar status dispute...

Perhaps, in the event of a no-deal exit. And it wouldn’t apply to UK passport holders already resident in Schengen. Lots of countries already exempt from Schengen visas, I can’t see UK not being included. Could happen, but not too likely.

Clocker · #**18043** 20.02.2019, 17:10

	Quote:	Swisstree
	*Nicola nails it*

Is this a new place where I can get a manicure?

Blueangel · #**18044** 20.02.2019, 20:31

	Quote:	Mikers
	im telling you, this woman could drink you under the table. I bet she's seen the wrong side of last orders more often than we've had hot dinners.

Why is it that, when a woman is strong minded, opinionated, outspoken and has a personality, she must be a drunk?

Those three women are a former manufacturing business owner, a former criminal barrister and an NHS GP. If you are to criticise and ridicule them for anything, let it be what they are, not what you imagine them to be.

#**18045** 20.02.2019, 20:45

	Quote:	Blueangel
	Why is it that, when a woman is strong minded, opinionated, outspoken and has a personality, she must be a drunk? Those three women are a former manufacturing business owner, a former criminal barrister and an NHS GP. If you are to criticise and ridicule them for anything, let it be what they are, not what you imagine them to be.

Because otherwise they're too competent and terrifying for words.

Mikers · #**18046** 20.02.2019, 21:14

	Quote:	Blueangel
	Why is it that, when a woman is strong minded, opinionated, outspoken and has a personality, she must be a drunk? Those three women are a former manufacturing business owner, a former criminal barrister and an NHS GP. If you are to criticise and ridicule them for anything, let it be what they are, not what you imagine them to be.

She speaks in a tone that reminds me of being drunk and has done ever since I’ve watched her on telly. I don’t care if it’s a she a he an alien or a camel, it’s the tone of voice. It’s also a joke me and higgy are having so it’s not being derailed by moral high horsing.

So to me, she’s always hammered and it’s funny. The other two I don’t have an opinion on except that I think the Independent Group as a whole will do very well.

Blueangel · #**18047** 21.02.2019, 00:41

Possible No.12

	Quote:
	BBC Newsnight‏Verifizierter Account @BBCNewsnight 34 Min.Vor 34 MinutenMehr "I would certainly cease to take the whip if I thought the Government was about to take us into a No Deal Brexit. I am absolutely clear about that" ...So you would leave the party? "I would have to leave the party - yes." Former Attorney General Dominic Grieve tells #newsnight

https://twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/sta...57643754668032

#**18048** 21.02.2019, 07:57

	Quote:
	And Loz is squarely in camp 3. It's basically trolling but with lifelong, serious consequences.

What's worse: enjoying the long overdue breakdown of the political system in the hope that something better comes along, or leaping on any bad news (particularly job losses) in order to try and get the self satisfaction of a "told-you-so" moment over Brexit?

	Quote:	Blueangel
	Possible No.12 https://twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/sta...57643754668032

As far as I can see, the only thing that the Independent Group have in common is their Brexit stance. Ironically this will more likely split the Labour vote than the Conservative so this breakaway will only strengthen the Brexit cause.

If they do try to model themselves on a Macron style En Marche! Then it'll be over before it begins. I suspect there is little appetite for "centrism" at the moment in the UK. If the defections continue, and if May had any nous, then she would call a General Election in the next few months.

#**18049** 21.02.2019, 08:04

	Quote:	Loz1983
	What's worse: enjoying the long overdue breakdown of the political system in the hope that something better comes along, or leaping on any bad news (particularly job losses) in order to try and get the self satisfaction of a "told-you-so" moment over Brexit?

Offhand I can't think of a single example of a true breakdown of the political system being replaced by anything better. Always is much worse thereafter. I fully agree the UK system badly needs to be democratised but it has to happen through reform, not breakdown.

Oh and not self-satisfaction. Just a natural reaction to all the Brexit stuff that was predicted actually coming to pass but the likes of you always told us were project fear.

#**18050** 21.02.2019, 10:40

	Quote:	Loz1983
	What's worse: enjoying the long overdue breakdown of the political system in the hope that something better comes along, or leaping on any bad news (particularly job losses) in order to try and get the self satisfaction of a "told-you-so" moment over Brexit?

If it was just the political system, I'd be 100% behind you. The UK needs a major overhaul to be fit for purpose.
But, as you know, it is not only a political breakdown - whether you like it or not, the signs point towards an economical and consequently societal breakdown due to Brexit.

Unless we have a full scale revolution, the likelihood of which is infinitesimal, then the only people who will suffer here are the poorest in society (again) as wages stagnate, employment rates plummet and living costs skyrocket. The people who you want to shake up will emerge relatively unscathed, and they'll just blame some other section of society - foreigners and muslims have served them well, I reckon the Welsh are next, they are overdue a good kicking.

#**18051** 21.02.2019, 11:17

	Quote:	Loz1983
	What's worse: enjoying the long overdue breakdown of the political system in the hope that something better comes along, or leaping on any bad news (particularly job losses) in order to try and get the self satisfaction of a "told-you-so" moment over Brexit?

I'm not looking for self-satisfaction. I'm pretty sure it's not me who writes "just as I said, aren't I clever?" posts. No, all I'd like to see is a reversal of the ridiculous self-destructive path that is Brexit.

#**18052** 21.02.2019, 12:15

	Quote:	Loz1983
	If they do try to model themselves on a Macron style En Marche! Then it'll be over before it begins. I suspect there is little appetite for "centrism" at the moment in the UK. If the defections continue, and if May had any nous, then she would call a General Election in the next few months.

Yeah, cos that went outstandingly well last time she did that.

Not sure whether the "centrism" label is relevant. People seem fed up with the utter and relentless dogs dinner being churned out of Parliament and the Independents seem to be the only ones acting like grown ups.

Maybe that is what the UK is now craving, regardless of which side of the Brexit fence you are sitting.

Blueangel · #**18053** 21.02.2019, 12:35

	Quote:
	Not sure whether the "centrism" label is relevant. People seem fed up with the utter and relentless dogs dinner being churned out of Parliament and the Independents seem to be the only ones acting like grown ups. Maybe that is what the UK is now craving, regardless of which side of the Brexit fence you are sitting.

That's exactly what it is for me.

All I want is mature, responsible adults, in a cross party coalition, working together to find what is best for the country as a whole. Unfortunately, thanks to Blukip and Momentum, that view has become fringe, radical and traitorous.

#**18054** 21.02.2019, 13:03

	Quote:
	Yeah, cos that went outstandingly well last time she did that. Not sure whether the "centrism" label is relevant. People seem fed up with the utter and relentless dogs dinner being churned out of Parliament and the Independents seem to be the only ones acting like grown ups. Maybe that is what the UK is now craving, regardless of which side of the Brexit fence you are sitting.

I don't think that is what the UK is craving, it needs to go either one way or the other first before coming back to the center. If a centrist were to somehow win a working majority (I don't for a moment believe it would) then we'd see the same levels of discontent that we currently see in Macron's France.

Anyway, let's see how long this "centrist" label lasts with the Independent Group. At the moment it's just being used to thinly veil their anti-Brexit stance, which is the only thing they have in common. I think as soon as they start to discuss any serious policies that their differences will evaporate any bonhomie that they currently have with one another.

As for Theresa May, as useless as she is, I think she'd be sensible to call the General Election. The Labour vote is far more likely to be split than the Tory one, and with May herself gone, I think they'd win by a landslide. The early polls are certainly seem to suggest this.

Blueangel · #**18055** 21.02.2019, 13:13

	Quote:	Loz1983
	Anyway, let's see how long this "centrist" label lasts with the Independent Group. At the moment it's just being used to thinly veil their anti-Brexit stance, which is the only thing they have in common. I think as soon as they start to discuss any serious policies that their differences will evaporate any bonhomie that they currently have with one another.

Both Labour and the Tories describe themselves as a 'broad church' of opinion. Why can a centre ground party not also be a broad church and succeed?

Of course people are going to ask "Are you Labour or Tory?". It's going to be a while before people can accept that it's possible to take the best from both to create something that appeal to a wider audience, and then they'll all be accused of being Blairites.

Mature politics must cater to the needs of the people and also to business. It's folly to go solely down either route because they're interdependent.

#**18056** 21.02.2019, 13:20

	Quote:	Blueangel
	Both Labour and the Tories describe themselves as a 'broad church' of opinion. Why can a centre ground party not also be a broad church and succeed?

In the UK? Same as for any new party there, it's something known as First Past The Post. Nothing to do with centre or broad church, simply a system that is completely stacked against any new entrant.

#**18057** 21.02.2019, 13:23

	Quote:	Blueangel
	Mature politics must cater to the needs of the people and also to business. It's folly to go solely down either route because they're interdependent.

It also must curb the worst excesses of both, especially in times like this, where the temptation is towards the outer fringes. A centrist party should in theory be able to do this better than any other.

#**18058** 21.02.2019, 13:53

	Quote:	Loz1983
	As for Theresa May, as useless as she is, I think she'd be sensible to call the General Election. The Labour vote is far more likely to be split than the Tory one, and with May herself gone, I think they'd win by a landslide.

Calling an election would involve having a definitive manifesto position on Brexit. Can't see agreement on that happening in her party any time soon.

#**18059** 21.02.2019, 14:22

	Quote:	Blueangel
	Just for anyone who may have missed it, the Rat's back. Oh the irony. https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news...party-15850789

...aaannnd he's gone again...

	Quote:
	"You can leave, you're Hatton"

bigblue2 · #**18060** 21.02.2019, 14:29

political parties should be banned! its ridiculous that we have 2 parties, one left, one right and they are forced to disagree with each other (more or less) and everyone in those parties is forced (more or less) to toe the party line.

People vote for their local mp, who is supposed to represent them, when in fact as soon as they are elected they have to do what the whip tells them, totally stupid. All votes in the commons should be totally free votes.

being a politician as a career should also be banned, one or two terms and you're done.