The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[bigblue2]

	Quote:
	I presume that any trade deal with the US will involve obfuscating the origin of their high density rearing and chlorine washing during labelling. Nobody in their right mind is picking that ahead of a locally sourced (or even nationally sourced) UK chicken. This allowance of lower standard produce will of course rightly enrage UK farmers, who will no doubt get large subsidies to keep them on side. Which will annoy US importers, who will get....race to the bottom.

whole chicken at uk standards 3 quid,

huge whole chicken from the US of A with a nice big flag on the wrapper and some small text hidden underneath 1 quid

every little helps

	Quote:	bigblue2
	so the rich get to eat 'nice' meat* and the poor get to eat total crap, nice.

Yes, the world has worked like that since the dawn of time.

[bigblue2]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	Yes, the world has worked like that since the dawn of time.

wrong, the EU have quite high minimum standards, so no one should be eating crap meat*

The US has terrible, really really terrible minimum standards, eg chickens are crammed into barns with no windows and no need to clear the mess out before re-stocking the barn. Their whole short lives walking around in shit and dead birds never seeing daylight - totally illegal in the EU and UK.

*scandals aside

	Quote:
	I'm struggling to see your point, Loz. You post a syrupy sweet PR job from the Telegraph about the poor Americans and the bad publicity they are apparently getting for their dodgy meat processing but actually everything is awesome. However, as soon as you are challenged on it you jump in with the other, darker, end of the spectrum from the EU and how awful they are. It just screams that you hate the EU and see absolutely nothing wrong with the US and you don't like being challenged on either viewpoint. I'm amazed that someone who is so dead against being chained up with the EU is so ready and willing to schmooz into bed with the US when they hold all the cards and power over the UK.

What I posted isn't the "darker end of the spectrum", it's the norm for how chickens are raised in the EU! I could have posted videos of chickens being penalty kicked if I'd wanted to go down that route

The point is that the vast majority of people in the UK don't give a shit about the quality of the food they eat. If you're eating pre-processed ready meals on a regular basis, then I doubt you're too concerned about eating chicken that has been washed in a chlorine solution. Unlike other parts of Europe, the UK has already followed the US in the race to the bottom in terms of what they eat, hence the obesity epidemic that the country already finds itself in.

	Quote:	Loz1983
	Yes, the world has worked like that since the dawn of time.

Actually, in modern history that's incorrect. The standard of meat has been the same, it's just the cuts of meat which vary in price and whether you can afford it so a slice of filet steak, while expensive and maybe only a regular choice of the better off, is still as safe to eat as a kilo of the cheap shin beef used in stews.

If you now introduce a two-tier standard (full of hormones, antibiotics and dodgy practices to extend shelf-life, etc), that is no longer the case.

	Quote:
	Actually, in modern history that's incorrect. The standard of meat has been the same, it's just the cuts of meat which vary in price and whether you can afford it so a slice of filet steak, while expensive and maybe only a regular choice of the better off, is still as safe to eat as a kilo of the cheap shin beef used in stews. If you now introduce a two-tier standard (full of hormones, antibiotics and dodgy practices to extend shelf-life, etc), that is no longer the case.

Back in a time when people knew how to cook. Even then, meat was rarely eaten by those less well off.

The two-tier system is already there anyhow. Look around next time you're in the supermarket. You have the choice between the cheap imported chicken breasts from Hungary, the Swiss intensively raised chicken breasts, the free range chicken and the organic chicken at the top end of the scale.

	Quote:	Loz1983
	What I posted isn't the "darker end of the spectrum", it's the norm for how chickens are raised in the EU! I could have posted videos of chickens being penalty kicked if I'd wanted to go down that route The point is that the vast majority of people in the UK don't give a shit about the quality of the food they eat. If you're eating pre-processed ready meals on a regular basis, then I doubt you're too concerned about eating chicken that has been washed in a chlorine solution. Unlike other parts of Europe, the UK has already followed the US in the race to the bottom in terms of what they eat, hence the obesity epidemic that the country already finds itself in.

I fear you are right. The horse may have already bolted here. However, the UK is currently in managed decline - this will no doubt accelerate and become unmanaged decline once we remove what little standards we have left.

[k_and_e]

It's funny that the country of BSE and horse meat scandals is now so worried about the quality of imported meat.

	Quote:	Loz1983
	Back in a time when people knew how to cook. Even that, meat was rarely eaten by those less well off.

So? That wasn't my point.

	Quote:	Loz1983
	The two-tier system is already there anyhow. Look around next time you're in the supermarket. You have the choice between the cheap imported chicken breasts from Hungary, the Swiss intensively raised chicken breasts, the free range chicken and the organic chicken at the top end of the scale.

But aren't the levels of crap that are pumped into them heavily regulated by the EU, regardless of whether it's sourced from Switzerland or Hungary? Therefore, it might be cheap or expensive meat but you know you aren't going to be getting a super-dose of antibiotics and hormones on the cheaper end.

	Quote:	k_and_e
	It's funny that the country of BSE and horse meat scandals is now so worried about the quality of imported meat.

Makes sense, though, if you bother to think that incidents such as these cause regulations to tighten up and improve standards.

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	Back in a time when people knew how to cook. Even then, meat was rarely eaten by those less well off. The two-tier system is already there anyhow. Look around next time you're in the supermarket. You have the choice between the cheap imported chicken breasts from Hungary, the Swiss intensively raised chicken breasts, the free range chicken and the organic chicken at the top end of the scale.

Last time I looked in Migros, cheapest frozen chicken lumps they sold came from China.

[bigblue2]

	Quote:	k_and_e
	It's funny that the country of BSE and horse meat scandals is now so worried about the quality of imported meat.

the whole BSE scandal is the reason why we have minimum standards now!! if you let people do whatever the hell they like they do crazy things like feeding infected sheep brains to cows!! But hey, its cheap.

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Last time I looked in Migros, cheapest frozen chicken lumps they sold came from China.

Are you saying they are selling chicken which is not regulated by the EU trade and import agreements with China?

	Quote:	k_and_e
	It's funny that the country of BSE and horse meat scandals is now so worried about the quality of imported meat.

Our cows only got BSE because they were bitten by rabid French dogs.

[marton]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	I'm just posting the other side of the story. I personally wouldn't choose to buy American meat, in the same way I refuse to buy prepackaged intensively raised chicken breasts now. I however have the luxury of being able to afford to pay for quality in the food that I buy, I'm aware that there are many that don't have that same luxury. The point is that people should have the choice of what they want to buy. I found this point of particular interest as it's absolutely true:

The argument about "We cannot overlook the fact that the world population is expected to reach almost 10 billion by 2050" sounds convincing until you think about it and recognise the EU population is hardly growing at all. So for the EU it is no problem to sit in their museum of agriculture.

	Quote:	marton
	The argument about "We cannot overlook the fact that the world population is expected to reach almost 10 billion by 2050" sounds convincing until you think about it and recognise the EU population is hardly growing at all. So for the EU it is no problem to sit in their museum of agriculture.

Indeed - the rest of the world is mostly irrelevant to this argument. We are talking about the EU and Britain's food standards, so what happens in Malawi or Mozambique isn't really relevant. Everywhere else is free to pursue standards that meet their needs.

[marton]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	It's a starting position before negotiations have even taken place. You do know what one of those is, right?

Sure I do, and luckily the UK has such a strong negotiating position that all the bad points can be negotiated away.

[Blueangel]

	Quote:
	If you now introduce a two-tier standard (full of hormones, antibiotics and dodgy practices to extend shelf-life, etc), that is no longer the case.

And the UK could fall into a chasm where laws and regulations on food manufactured for domestic pets are far tighter than the food on offer to people.

This twitter thread. Oh my days...

[Blueangel]

There appears to be a wealth of quotes online today. Currently, these are my favourites...

	Quote:
	Larry the Cat‏ @Number10cat 2h2 hours ago Happy #PancakeDay to you all. Having lived with her for a number of years, I can confirm that Theresa May is a tosser...

https://twitter.com/Number10cat/stat...66002214309888

	Quote:
	The Secret Barrister@BarristerSecret The Secret Barrister Retweeted Danny Shaw “The deck of the Titanic ended up a little wetter than we would have hoped for.”The Secret Barrister added, Danny Shaw@DannyShawBBC BREAKING: Former Justice Secretary Chris Grayling's first comments on the probation reforms condemned by @nationalauditUK last week: "They haven't worked as well as we would have wanted". 3:12 AM - 5 Mar 2019

https://twitter.com/BarristerSecret/...89656180453377

	Quote:
	James O'Brien‏Verified account @mrjamesob 3h3 hours ago Brexit is now chiefly about people who would rather be lied to by an Englishman than told the truth by a Frenchman.

https://twitter.com/mrjamesob/status...51678443778048

[Blueangel]

Breaking

BMW may shift Mini and engine work from UK in no-deal Brexit
https://news.sky.com/story/bmw-may-shift-mini-and-engine-work-from-uk-in-no-deal-brexit-11655739

	Quote:
	BMW has stepped up its warnings surrounding a no-deal Brexit, telling Sky News production of the Mini in Oxford may be at risk. The German car giant's board member responsible for Mini and Rolls Royce cars, Peter Schwarzenbauer, said they would "need to consider" moving production from the UK as the company could not absorb extra costs they would face. He also told the Reuters news agency at the Geneva car show that some engine manufacturing could be lost to Austria. In an interview with Sky's business correspondent Adam Parsons, Mr Schwarzenbauer expressed solidarity with other global carmakers in their attitudes and response to the UK's looming departure from the EU.