The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

	Quote:	Blueangel
	If my home town had signed in large numbers, then I'd be suspicious, but seeing as only 3.9% of the electorate have, I'd say that's pretty accurate. On the other hand, in Bristol West, which was 79.7% Remain in the referendum, 25.27% of the electorate have signed the petition. I'm not seeing any major shift in how the signatures are dispersed compared to the referendum result, which would be extremely difficult to replicate if the signatures were random fakes. But nevermind FMF, there weren't 1 million people marching in London yesterday. You imagined that too.

1.5 million people in London voted to leave the EU. 2.3 million people voted to remain. Kinda puts the "1 million" marchers into perspective.

Same with the petition. 5 million in 5 days compared to 17.4 million in 24 hours (minus postal votes). If people are impressed with that then they really need to get out more.

[omtatsat]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	1.5 million people in London voted to leave the EU. 2.3 million people voted to remain. Kinda puts the "1 million" marchers into perspective. Same with the petition. 5 million in 5 days compared to 17.4 million in 24 hours (minus postal votes). If people are impressed with that then they really need to get out more.

Polls mean nothing and anyhow it was hacked by schoolchildren and EU vested interests

	Quote:	Blueangel
	Daniel Hannan #thatfellowHannanisthemostvulgartiresomeswank

This might bethe best thing I've read in days though it's a guilty "like" because he really should be rising above.

	Quote:	Loz1983
	1.5 million people in London voted to leave the EU. 2.3 million people voted to remain. Kinda puts the "1 million" marchers into perspective. Same with the petition. 5 million in 5 days compared to 17.4 million in 24 hours (minus postal votes). If people are impressed with that then they really need to get out more.

Brexiters are clearly rattled, though, otherwise they wouldn't be bleating about it at every opportunity. Confident in the result? No reason to shout then, is there..?

The 17.4 million Leave voters are actually irrelevant in this whole thing, anyway. The demand is now to give the people a choice of how it moves forward, this includes Leave voters who are struggling to come to terms with how incompetently it's being handled. The only people happy with the situation as it stands are the hardliners who want a no-deal, and there certainly aren't 17.4 million of them.

[NotAllThere]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	1.5 million people in London voted to leave the EU. 2.3 million people voted to remain. Kinda puts the "1 million" marchers into perspective. Same with the petition. 5 million in 5 days compared to 17.4 million in 24 hours (minus postal votes). If people are impressed with that then they really need to get out more.

GE/Referendum. Massive publicity, having a say in something that might actually effect change. Compared with an online petition, where it can safely be ignored and is unlikely to make much if any difference. Yes, 5 million is quite impressive.

As far as "it's been hacked" etc., the breakdown of figures per constituency is freely available. It would be easy to demonstrate if there was significant variation from the referendum result. There are other forensic tests that could be used as well.

I've yet to see anyone who claims that it's fake, that it's hacked etc. to provide any evidence.

	Quote:	NotAllThere
	GE/Referendum. Massive publicity, having a say in something that might actually effect change. Compared with an online petition, where it can safely be ignored and is unlikely to make much if any difference. Yes, 5 million is quite impressive. As far as "it's been hacked" etc., the breakdown of figures per constituency is freely available. It would be easy to demonstrate if there was significant variation from the referendum result. There are other forensic tests that could be used as well. I've yet to see anyone who claims that it's fake, that it's hacked etc. to provide any evidence.

Even if we trust the numbers those that have signed up (lol), then it still proves nothing. 5 million don't believe in democracy, whilst the rest of the country does. Nothing has changed and there is still a mandate to leave the EU.

	Quote:
	Brexiters are clearly rattled, though, otherwise they wouldn't be bleating about it at every opportunity. Confident in the result? No reason to shout then, is there..? The 17.4 million Leave voters are actually irrelevant in this whole thing, anyway. The demand is now to give the people a choice of how it moves forward, this includes Leave voters who are struggling to come to terms with how incompetently it's being handled. The only people happy with the situation as it stands are the hardliners who want a no-deal, and there certainly aren't 17.4 million of them.

Loz Rule Number 6 - anyone who says "clearly" means the exact opposite.

[bowlie]

	Quote:
	{"name":"Switzerland","code":"CH","signature_count ":5624},

Any estimates of the number of British citizens in CH?

	Quote:	Loz1983
	Even if we trust the numbers those that have up (lol), then it still proves nothing. 5 million don't believe in democracy, whilst the rest of the country does. Nothing has changed and there is still a mandate to leave the EU.

5 million people don't trust the government. That is all. Not sure which bit is tripping you up. Democracy died as soon as they kicked off the shameful campaigning.

	Quote:	Loz1983
	Loz Rule Number 6 - anyone who says "clearly" means the exact opposite.

So you missed all the incandescent rage from no-deal morons over the weekend, wetting their pants over the petition and march, then?

CLEARLY you did...

[SponPlague]

	Quote:	bowlie
	Any estimates of the number of British citizens in CH?

Reuters estimated ~41,000 in 2016:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-b...-idUSKBN1411TN

[omtatsat]

	Quote:
	5 million people don't trust the government. That is all. Not sure which bit is tripping you up. Democracy died as soon as they kicked off the shameful campaigning. So you missed all the incandescent rage from no-deal morons over the weekend, wetting their pants over the petition and march, then? CLEARLY you did...

Its typical British beaurachracy. What do you expect!!!These people are incompetent of deciding which tea to drink today!

[eng_ch]

	Quote:	bowlie
	Any estimates of the number of British citizens in CH?

UK embassy reckons around 40,000

[Urs Max]

	Quote:	bowlie
	Any estimates of the number of British citizens in CH?

41k in 2017 as per official statistics, up from 22k in the year 2000 (18k in 1990, 37k in 2010). The number has been steady for the last five years.

[SponPlague]

The big difference was ~2006 when quotas were relaxed.

[NotAllThere]

	Quote:	omtatsat
	Its typical British beaurachracy.

Wow - started on the schnapps a little early today.

	Quote:	Loz1983
	Even if we trust the numbers those that have up (lol), then it still proves nothing.

I did point out it was unlikely to have any effect.

	Quote:
	5 million don't believe in democracy, whilst the rest of the country does.

That's a very strange thing to say. Voicing an opinion through a petition indicates a lack of belief in democracy? I know how Swiss democracy works, and I know how British democracy works. I think you must be thinking of a third kind of democracy that stifles protest.

Since when has it been undemocratic for minorities to protest?! You're a funny guy.

[greenmount]

	Quote:	NotAllThere
	Voicing an opinion through a petition indicates a lack of belief in democracy? I know how Swiss democracy works, and I know how British democracy works. I think you must be thinking of a third kind of democracy that stifles protest. Since when has it been undemocratic for minorities to protest?! .

Only when they don't agree with me! ME ME ME ME! After me, the deluge!

	Quote:	NotAllThere
	That's a very strange thing to say. Voicing an opinion through a petition indicates a lack of belief in democracy? I know how Swiss democracy works, and I know how British democracy works. I think you must be thinking of a third kind of democracy that stifles protest. Since when has it been undemocratic for minorities to protest?! You're a funny guy.

Who said anything about protesting? They're free to do so, but let's not forget what they're protesting about. First it started with a call for a second referendum, then a "People's Vote" and now forget the vote, let's just revoke Art. 50.

These are people that still can't accept the result of the actual vote in 2016. Look at the marchers in London at the weekend, they were in the vast majority white, and very middle class. They really believe that if they shout loud enough then they're going to get their own way.

While all this has been going on, there's 17.4 million people sitting on their hands waiting patiently for Brexit to be delivered, under the impression that the government will carry out on the promise given before the referendum. If Brexit isn't delivered, then I don't think people are ready for the backlash that will occur.

	Quote:	Loz1983
	Who said anything about protesting? They're free to do so, but let's not forget what they're protesting about. First it started with a call for a second referendum, then a "People's Vote" and now forget the vote, let's just revoke Art. 50.

So? People can protest whatever they want. Brexit is a dud, it's clear to anyone with half a braincell it's not going to work out, it's not going to be the utopia they promised, the government can't manage to find its own arse with both hands. Why not pull the emergency brake?

	Quote:	Loz1983
	These are people that still can't accept the result of the actual vote in 2016. Look at the marchers in London at the weekend, they were in the vast majority white, and very middle class. They really believe that if they shout loud enough then they're going to get their own way.

Yes, most of the pro-Brexit tabloids and red tops ran white/middle-class only pictures. Wonder why that was? It's a mystery. If you stand a million people together in the middle of London, do you think "the vast majority" would be white?

	Quote:	Loz1983
	While all this has been going on, there's 17.4 million people sitting on their hands waiting patiently for Brexit to be delivered, under the impression that the government will carry out on the promise given before the referendum. If Brexit isn't delivered, then I don't think people are ready for the backlash that will occur.

The referendum was "advisory". Nobody could define Brexit before the referendum so whatever they do will be deemed "undelivered" by any number of Leave voters. You are assuming everyone went in with the impression that it was leave with no deal.

[TobiasM]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	Who said anything about protesting? They're free to do so, but let's not forget what they're protesting about. First it started with a call for a second referendum, then a "People's Vote" and now forget the vote, let's just revoke Art. 50. These are people that still can't accept the result of the actual vote in 2016. Look at the marchers in London at the weekend, they were in the vast majority white, and very middle class. They really believe that if they shout loud enough then they're going to get their own way.

Absolute twaddle. Firstly it was a referendum. Second, they were people of all backgrounds and beliefs and races that don't feel that Britain is going to get any sort of deal that won't involve decades of economic uncertainty and they want to stop that now. That is democracy.

	Quote:	Loz1983
	While all this has been going on, there's 17.4 million people sitting on their hands waiting patiently for Brexit to be delivered, under the impression that the government will carry out on the promise given before the referendum. If Brexit isn't delivered, then I don't think people are ready for the backlash that will occur.

They aren't all that patient now are they Loz?

	Quote:	Loz1983
	These are people that still can't accept the result of the actual vote in 2016. Look at the marchers in London at the weekend, they were in the vast majority white, and very middle class. They really believe that if they shout loud enough then they're going to get their own way.

It IS well researched that ethnic minorities voted overwhelmingly to Remain in the EU. There are a decent number of visible minorities in the march if you bother looking - difficult to see, sure, as there are so many people it's hard to pick out individual faces on most images.

That's not a problem on the Farage Brexit march. Easy to see the individuals there and can't see one single visible minority amongst them.

	Quote:
	So? People can protest whatever they want. Brexit is a dud, it's clear to anyone with half a braincell it's not going to work out, it's not going to be the utopia they promised, the government can't manage to find its own arse with both hands. Why not pull the emergency brake?

Everything so clear today, eh?

The only reason Brexit isn't being delivered as promised is because Parliament is choc full of Remainers who have done their utmost to frustrate the process.

	Quote:
	Yes, most of the pro-Brexit tabloids and red tops ran white/middle-class only pictures. Wonder why that was? It's a mystery. If you stand a million people together in the middle of London, do you think "the vast majority" would be white?

Does David Lammy count as a pro-Brexit tabloid?

	Quote:
	The referendum was "advisory". Nobody could define Brexit before the referendum so whatever they do will be deemed "undelivered" by any number of Leave voters. You are assuming everyone went in with the impression that it was leave with no deal.

Been a while since I've had to use this.