The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

	Quote:	3Wishes
	Brexit isn't being delivered "as promised" because A) the promises of the Leave camp weren't very realistic or entirely clear and B) negotiating a deal is a helluva lot harder than making sound bytes for TV and posting clever tweets.

This simply isn't true. No Leaver has ever had the chance to lead the negotiations nor the Brexit process.

[Blueangel]

	Quote:
	Crikey. Can you imagine how long a tantric Brexit would last?

Answer: As long as the official Vote Leave campaign wanted it to *shhhh! Don't tell Loz* Their central leaflet said, and I quote:

	Quote:
	“Taking back control is a careful change, not a sudden step – we will negotiate the terms of a new deal before we start any legal process to leave”

Hmmm...

I'm so glad that the lovely people at ledbydonkeys are reminding folk of this little nugget.


https://twitter.com/ByDonkeys/status...31341436354562

	Quote:	Blueangel
	Answer: As long as the official Vote Leave campaign wanted it to *shhhh! Don't tell Loz* Their central leaflet said, and I quote: Hmmm... I'm so glad that the lovely people at ledbydonkeys are reminding folk of this little nugget. Attachment 136339 https://twitter.com/ByDonkeys/status...31341436354562

1) Farage was no part of the official Vote Leave campaign.
2) No member of the official Vote Leave campaign has ever been in the driving seat for leading Brexit.

[Blueangel]

Sorry to be boring, but my 'quote of the day' goes (again) to Larry the Cat. Even Sky News filmed him today and said, he's seen off one PM, and might be about to see off another.


https://twitter.com/Number10cat/stat...14332514361344

[Blueangel]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	1) Farage was no part of the official Vote Leave campaign. 2) No member of the official Vote Leave campaign has ever been in the driving seat for leading Brexit.

1) So Brexit voters only listened to Farage and not the official campaign?
2) Quelle surprise! I wonder why... Aha! That's why! Bojo (ironically bearing in mind his article today)...
i) did a deal with Gove,
ii) Gove decided to let Bojo run for PM so as not to split the Brexiteer vote
iii) but when push came to shove, Bojo blinked and refused to run for PM, probably because he knew he would be exposed 'plums deep' in a bit of extracurricular.

Nobody to blame but themselves, and I bet it stings.

[marton]

Letwin amendment passed by 27 votes, three ministers who voted for it have resigned; business minister Richard Harrington, the Foreign Office minister Alistair Burt and the health minister Steve Brine

Beckett amendment failed by three votes; why vote for Letwin but not Beckett!

Clowns are now running the circus; so replacing the incompetents!

[Fish Paste]

So now Parliament have control of the Brexit process, and 29 tories revolted.

Looks like some of them have grown a pair.

It’s beginning to look a lot like Brexit has suffered a fatal blow.

What will they do next?

Common sense says to me, 1) revoke A50 or (more unlikely) 2) referendum.
Or maybe 1) + 2) in the future

It’s certainly going to the wire.

	Quote:	Fish Paste
	So now Parliament have control of the Brexit process, and 29 tories revolted. Looks like some of them have grown a pair. It’s beginning to look a lot like Brexit has suffered a fatal blow. What will they do next? Common sense says to me, 1) revoke A50 or (more unlikely) 2) referendum. Or maybe 1) + 2) in the future It’s certainly going to the wire.

1) won’t happen without a vote. 2) could happen however more likely is all paths now lead to a General Election.

Crux of the problem is that Remain MPs don’t want form of Brexit and Leave MP’s don’t want May’s deal. Unless one side changes their position things won’t move.

[SponPlague]

	Quote:	Blueangel
	Sorry to be boring, but my 'quote of the day' goes (again) to Larry the Cat. Even Sky News filmed him today and said, he's seen off one PM, and might be about to see off another. Attachment 136340 https://twitter.com/Number10cat/stat...14332514361344

And equally, if he parts the English Channel, how many immigrants from Calais can rush through without getting soaked?

	Quote:	Loz1983
	This simply isn't true. No Leaver has ever had the chance to lead the negotiations nor the Brexit process.

Apart from Leaver David Davis, who literally had the job of Brexit Secretary created for him and sat with his thumbs up his arse for the first two years of the Brexit negotiations (which he was leading) before resigning in shame at his lack of progress.

Apart from the actual facts, as usual, you are totally correct.

	Quote:
	Apart from Leaver David Davis, who literally had the job of Brexit Secretary created for him and sat with his thumbs up his arse for the first two years of the Brexit negotiations (which he was leading) before resigning in shame at his lack of progress. Apart from the actual facts, as usual, you are totally correct.

This also isn’t true, David Davis never had control of the process, Theresa May and her tea boy Ollie Robbins saw to that, which is why he resigned.

	Quote:	Loz1983
	This also isn’t true, David Davis never had control of the process, Theresa May and her tea boy Ollie Robbins saw to that, which is why he resigned.

Took him two years to figure that out, did it? His job was to lead negotiations...he had the chance, and failed to. It doesn't suit your narrative, I understand, but you can't just make up conspiracy theories then parrot them as fact. Again.

[lewton]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	Yes, because there was a General Election where the current PM ran on a manifesto to honour the referendum result.

Funny how she didn't manage to get a majority that allows her to deliver her electoral promise.
(see what I did here? )

	Quote:
	Took him two years to figure that out, did it? His job was to lead negotiations...he had the chance, and failed to. It doesn't suit your narrative, I understand, but you can't just make up conspiracy theories then parrot them as fact. Again.

"Fit my narrative". Davis didn't go sooner because he (foolishly) put party first.

David Davis has now not-resigned five times over Brexit – how long can this toddler tantrum politics go on?
All the times David Davis threatened to resign over Brexit before he finally did

	Quote:	lewton
	Funny how she didn't manage to get a majority that allows her to deliver her electoral promise. (see what I did here? )

Magic Grandpa promised the same, plus a load of free stuff. The majority is there, it's the politicians who changed their minds.

	Quote:	TobiasM
	For somebody who gives so much of a sh*t for UK democracy, you didn't even care to vote yourself. I wonder why you are still so concerned that the UK has not yet Brexited and constantly voice your opinion here? Baffled. Leaving the EU wont help vetoing future EU policies will it.

I did vote in the Referendum, because unlike in other elections, I believed my vote would make a difference.

If the Brexit process has confirmed anything it's that your vote counts for nothing.

	Quote:	Loz1983
	"Fit my narrative". Davis didn't go sooner because he (foolishly) put party first. David Davis has now not-resigned five times over Brexit – how long can this toddler tantrum politics go on? All the times David Davis threatened to resign over Brexit before he finally did

So your evidence for him not leading the negotiations was that his method of negotiation was to throw a tantrum and threaten to walk away 5 times, before finally leaving with nothing but his tail between his legs?

Sure sounds like he's been in charge of Brexit negotiations.

[greenmount]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	I did vote in the Referendum, because unlike in other elections, I believed my vote would make a difference. If the Brexit process has confirmed anything it's that your vote counts for nothing.

Oh, so you'll pack your stuff and rush to the great UK once it will be the land of milk and honey again?

	Quote:
	So your evidence for him not leading the negotiations was that his method of negotiation was to throw a tantrum and threaten to walk away 5 times, before finally leaving with nothing but his tail between his legs? Sure sounds like he's been in charge of Brexit negotiations.

How's my "narrative" looking now?

For all the Brexiteers’ bluster, there’s only one man in charge of Brexit

	Quote:
	The existence of a model known to No 10, and No 10 alone, proves that, for all their bluster, cabinet Leavers like David Davis and Boris Johnson have very little to do with shaping Brexit. That job belongs to Olly Robbins, May's top EU adviser, and virtually nobody else.

Is Olly Robbins the 'real' Brexit secretary?

	Quote:	Loz1983
	How's my "narrative" looking now? For all the Brexiteers’ bluster, there’s only one man in charge of Brexit Is Olly Robbins the 'real' Brexit secretary?

So Davis, an elected member of Parliament and the doyen of Leave is being outflanked by some unelected lanky introvert? Bravo guys.

Sounds like you Leave lot sent the right guy for the job.

So, if it wasn't obvious, no, I'm not buying 1) a few paragraphs of an opinion piece in a rabidly Leave (and disappointed that Leave has been proven not to work, so blaming anyone else...plus ca change) publication and 2) an opinion piece that is a question.

If he didn't feel like he was in charge, why didn't Davis stamp his authority on this, as the only elected person in charge of the fiasco?

	Quote:	Blueangel
	Here we differ. The entire reasoning was to unite one political party, with precious little thought given to the consequences and impact upon the electorate. The concept was too vague. The campaigns were not factual or transparent, and were divisive. For the result to be respected and enacted correctly, it should have been the beginning of an extended consultative process before Article 50 was triggered, which it wasn't. For want of a better phrase, it should have been politically 'tantric'.

I agree and in an ideal situation the plug should be pulled on the whole sorry show and no mention of it made ever again...

However, a part of me also thinks that the Leave campaign should lie in the bed they've made for themselves and feel the full force of public opinion once the "Brexit is ace" honeymoon period starts to wear off and they are suddenly exposed as the charlatans the Remain voters saw them as from the beginning.

However (part deux), in reality if that happened, they'd all scuttle off either for retirement or quietly resign and shift themselves into whichever cosy board-member position is currently being kept warm for them by their old boy network leaving someone else to dig the UK out of its hole.

By the way, did you see the Chequers away-day Brexiteers formed themselves into a group they've named "The Grand Wizards". Shame they didn't google that before going public...

There are not enough faces to palm these days.