The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[marton]

	Quote:	SponPlague
	My point is that the courts have ruled she can’t use executive power to revoke article 50.

No they did not! They wrote that "it would be logical that Parliament needs to approve revocation" but that was a view; not a rule.

Edit: so far not much "logical" has happened in the Brexit process.

Meaningful vote 4.

[3Wishes]

	Quote:	Swisstree
	Meaningful vote 4. Attachment 136378

Okay, now how do they make that different from MV3 so that Bercow allows the vote? A pig with lipstick is still a pig...oder?

Maybe May should go back to the EU and say it took us a week to get 17 more votes. At this rate if you give us 4 more weeks we'll get over the hurdle...

And since she offered to resign and that didn't do the trick, what else could she come up with? Vote for the deal and she'll resign but the Conservatives won't make Johnson the new PM?

[curley]

	Quote:	Swisstree
	Meaningful vote 4. Attachment 136378

I went and checked "meaningful" in the dictionary of all languages I speak because GB dealing with Brexit (gee, if only they would deal with it) had me convinced it must be me totally misunderstanding that word.

It's not me.

[SponPlague]

Forget meaningful votes, I want a meaningful Brexit!

	Quote:	3Wishes
	Okay, now how do they make that different from MV3 so that Bercow allows the vote? A pig with lipstick is still a pig...oder? Maybe May should go back to the EU and say it took us a week to get 17 more votes. At this rate if you give us 4 more weeks we'll get over the hurdle... And since she offered to resign and that didn't do the trick, what else could she come up with? Vote for the deal and she'll resign but the Conservatives won't make Johnson the new PM?

She is trying a MV4 before she calls a GE. A threat in other words: MPs don't like elections, and it might not be the answer anyway, just adds more confusion. She'll get around Bercow, I would think.

I also read somewhere this morning there's a suggestion of running it off against the most popular of the indicative vote options.

DUP are now hinting at swinging back to remain as it's better not to break up or threaten the union at all. I would laugh, but I am too tired.

[curley]

	Quote:	SponPlague
	Forget meaningful votes, I want a meaningful Brexit!

Even if it happens, one thing it definitely won't be is meaningful. They messed that up good.

It was supposed to be a statement. A wake-up call.
All it will be is a joke. Either way. It has lost all significance for the rest of the world.

[fatmanfilms]

Mervyn King, ex Governor of the Bank of England writes today:
"The entire political class is missing the point about Brexit, that's why the Government has botched the EU negotiations and Parliament can neither debate nor decide on our future
INCOMPETENCE seems to have spread beyond the Government to Parliament as a whole — the fact that they simply cannot make a decision is extraordinary.
Whether you believed in Remain or Leave, the only way to retain a negotiating position was to make sure, in a calm and quiet way, that the UK would take all the necessary preparations for leaving without a deal.
We could then tell our partners in Europe that, if the deal they offered to us was not acceptable, we had a fall-back position.
But those preparations were not made. The Government took a conscious decision and the Chancellor was very explicit that he was not prepared to spend money in making those preparations.
That was a disastrous decision. I think, if we had done that, then the position today would look very different.
My preference would be to go back to Europe and say we have a clear strategy — to leave without a deal but to take six months or so to complete the preparations. Then we would be in a much stronger position.
If we were to leave without making adequate preparations there would be some short-run dislocation cost. It is hard to know how serious that would be but I think the view that somehow we will have queues of lorries on the M20 for five years or more is absurd.
The important thing is, that, with adequate preparations, I do not believe the long-term economic costs of leaving would be very different from staying in the European Union.
But the issue should not be just about economics.
One of the sad things about this whole debate is that the country has become deeply divided.
People on both sides are passionate about it but they are not passionate because they have views about the economic effects.
I have not met anyone who said, “I’d be in favour of Brexit if I thought the impact on GDP will be less than two per cent but I’ll be in favour of Remain if I thought it would be more than five per cent”.
It is the issues of identity and culture and politics that are motivating people, which is why I think MPs have somehow lost the plot.
When people say the consequence of leaving without a deal is national suicide, I despair. I wonder sometimes if the political class has suffered a collective nervous breakdown and lost confidence in the country.
One of the odd things about our debate is that you would think people would be debating what is going on in the European Union.
Is it a club that we want to be a member of? Where is it going in the future?
We have heard almost nothing about that.
The European Union faces terrible challenges of its own, which is what it would like to concentrate on.
All the major countries in the EU, apart from us, are in the monetary union.
The challenge of making the monetary union work is the big headache for the European Union. They do not have any answers.
Those economic challenges have led to disaster in Greece. GDP in Italy is no higher today than it was 20 years ago when it joined the monetary union.
These are dreadful outcomes for the monetary union. Do we really want to be in a club that accepts such outcomes?
Of course, some people want to be in a federal Europe. It’s a reasonable point of view, though not one I subscribe to.
But that is what we should be debating not exaggerating the economic consequences of the alternatives.
I do not think it is obvious that jobs in Britain would be lost if we left the EU. Look at what has happened since the vote to leave when we were told there would be a recession.
Since mid-2016 our economy has grown by slightly more than Germany’s.
The idea that voting for leave has been an economic disaster does not match facts.
One of the things that many people find surprising is that the average value of sterling against other currencies is exactly the same this week as it was the day I left the Bank of England nearly six years ago. Financial markets have not panicked and businesses have carried on.
We should all be more confident in our country and our future prosperity.
Forget the scare stories and focus on the question: Do you, or do you not, want to be in the political club that is the European Union?
Our incompetent MPs don't get it — Brexit is not about the economy, stupid!"

[marton]

A present for Loz!


Wonder if it will reach almost 6 million signatures like the Remain petition?

[3Wishes]

	Quote:	marton
	Wonder if it will reach almost 6 million signatures like the Remain petition?

No, because bots falsely inflated the numbers of the other petition. This one won't have any bots, just legit voters.

[curley]

They just luv these petitions and differentiated votes. They're so much fun and you can click what ever you're in the momentary mood for as they don't make a difference anyway. They will all miss Brexit badly .... which might be the reason they drag it out?



Note to admin.ch: British people who ask for naturalization need to be separately schooled in voting. It's not their fault, it's biblical: "Father, forgive them for they know not what they do!"

	Quote:	curley
	They just luv these petitions and differentiated votes. They're so much fun and you can click what ever you're in the momentary mood for as they don't make a difference anyway. They will all miss Brexit badly .... which might be the reason they drag it out? Note to admin.ch: British people who ask for naturalization need to be separately schooled in voting. It's not their fault, it's biblical: "Father, forgive them for they know not what they do!"

You realise there were petitions before Brexit, don’t you?

I doubt anyone outside of the UK gave a shit about them before because they were quietly working away in the background sometimes directly or indirectly making changes. Or not.

[SponPlague]

Combining the losing bill with a motion of confidence triggering a GE if it doesn’t pass got the Maastricht bill through. That went well - it gave birth to UKIP

[curley]

	Quote:
	You realise there were petitions before Brexit, don’t you? I doubt anyone outside of the UK gave a shit about them before because they were quietly working away in the background sometimes directly or indirectly making changes. Or not.

Each with endless votings etc. ? Is this advisory, friendly and what ever labelling a normal thing there as well? And what were the outcomes? (Maybe conclusions could be drawn to make a prediction for Brexit).

You are right, I did not realize this was actually normal procedure in GB. If I had I would not have put any hope in this from the start. (And this is not meant sarcastically, for a change).

[bowlie]

Well, despite the will of the people, it appears that the will of the Parliament does not extend to:

Leaving the EU without an agreement, or
Staying in the EU, or
Mrs May’s agreement,

I suggest that each MP be asked to rate the above 1-3. Their first choice given a score of two, their second choice a score of 1 and zero for their third.

Add them all up and you have your answer. And probably a further embarrassment for the PM.

[fatmanfilms]

Money is hardly a reason to stay

[curley]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Money is hardly a reason to stay

Depends. Do they pay taxes in the UK for that income?


(Is that yearly?)

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	curley
	Depends. Do they pay taxes in the UK for that income? (Is that yearly?)

Depends where they live, if UK resident & domiciled then UK tax payable.

Pension fund value I assume except where it says yearly

[marton]

	Quote:
	Vote Leave has dropped its appeal against a £61,000 fine for electoral offences committed during the Brexit referendum. Vote Leave appealed against the fine, claiming that its donation to Grimes had been signed off by the commission. Supporters of the group suggested, without evidence, that commission staff were opposed to leaving the EU and were persecuting leave campaigners. However, in a statement released on Friday afternoon, the Electoral Commission said Vote Leave had withdrawn its appeal. “We found that [Vote Leave] broke the electoral rules set out by parliament to ensure fairness, confidence and legitimacy at an electoral event,” it said.

Source

Now we just need Boris Johnson and Michael Gove to account for illegal behaviour by the official Vote Leave Brexit campaign.
Labour deputy leader Tom Watson called on Johnson to recognise the campaign acted illegally. “I’m sure the man who seeks to be your prime minister will acknowledge … Vote Leave broke the law,”

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Money is hardly a reason to stay

Yeah but the silly dog-whistle clickbait keep the Brexiteers busy clicking and sharing, doesn’t it?

Those fellas probably eat salami and drink German beer. They’re in no position to talk to us about Europe, are they?