The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[Urs Max]

	Quote:	SponPlague
	Agree it’s not exponential. My point is, people need to decide what capacity they’re able to support locally. Bliar did zero planning and ended up with a disaster - no resources and no local budget to pay for school places, hospitals, housing, you name it...

How exactly are today's bad state of affairs Blair's fault? Whatever he may have done poorly, the subsequent governments/administrations had ten years to remedy them.

[Blueangel]

I think this visualisation of last night's votes helps to really show how the majority of Tories are refusing to compromise on anything. #holdingthecountrytoransom


https://twitter.com/paul1kirby/statu...40273116229642

[Castro]

	Quote:	Blueangel
	I think this visualisation of last night's votes helps to really show how the majority of Tories are refusing to compromise on anything. #holdingthecountrytoransom Attachment 136393 https://twitter.com/paul1kirby/statu...40273116229642

Well its why Nick Boles made the principled decision to announce his departure from the Tories last night.

However what I found truly shocking was Mark Francois' vulgar attack on the Chancellor

	Quote:
	Tory Brexiteer Mark Francois has gone renegade, even by his standards, telling Chancellor Philip Hammond "up yours" on live radio. The hardline Eurosceptic went dramatically off script after MPs failed to find a pragmatic way forward in tonight's indicative votes. MPs had just rejected four proposals for a way out of the Brexit deadlock. But Mr Francois said the 'soft Brexit' plans, were an "attempted coup" mounted by a cross- group of Remain-backing MPs in a bid to block Brexit. Source

In normal times he would be severely reprimanded

	Quote:	Castro
	However what I found truly shocking was Mark Francois' vulgar attack on the Chancellor In normal times he would be severely reprimanded

Why does anyone listen to this thicko? His interview with Will Self shows that he doesn't even have a 6 year old's grasp of Set Theory and just presses the outrage button when he doesn't understand.

If you want the dictionary definition of snowflake, look no further.

[Blueangel]

	Quote:	Castro
	However what I found truly shocking was Mark Francois' vulgar attack on the Chancellor

It's way too early in the day to be confronted with that smug git's face. My intuitive inner 3yr old screams "Don't like!!!" every time I see him.

[lewton]

	Quote:	Swisstree
	The Customs Union only lost by 3 votes.

How is it that the worst of all choices almost won the vote?
Customs Union would strip the UK of the ability to do any trade deals, would allow European exporters to keep exporting into the UK without any barriers, while UK services firms would face significant barriers in accessing the EU Single Market.

[Blueangel]

	Quote:	lewton
	Customs Union would strip the UK of the ability to do any trade deals, would allow European exporters to keep exporting into the UK without any barriers, while UK services firms would face significant barriers in accessing the EU Single Market.

It would also mean a hard border between N.I. and Ireland.

[lewton]

	Quote:	Blueangel
	It would also mean a hard border between N.I. and Ireland.

You mean NO hard border?
I see that I missed that part and it is a big plus for a Customs Union that I did not think of earlier.
However one has to ask, if the UK is in a Customs Union with the EU and therefore cannot do any independent trade deals, then why not just join the EEA?

[Blueangel]

	Quote:	lewton
	You mean NO hard border?

No. A customs union reduces the need for some, but not all, border checks. Only the single market would leave the border as it currently is.

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	lewton
	How is it that the worst of all choices almost won the vote? Customs Union would strip the UK of the ability to do any trade deals, would allow European exporters to keep exporting into the UK without any barriers, while UK services firms would face significant barriers in accessing the EU Single Market.

That is the strange think about the whole discussion in the UK, although financial services etc. is serious tax revenue generator and employer, there is virtual no concern shown for how they will fair going forward.

	Quote:	Blueangel
	I think this visualisation of last night's votes helps to really show how the majority of Tories are refusing to compromise on anything. #holdingthecountrytoransom Attachment 136393 https://twitter.com/paul1kirby/statu...40273116229642

Your charts show that in fact more Tories were prepared to “compromise” than Labour MPs.

	Quote:	lewton
	How is it that the worst of all choices almost won the vote? Customs Union would strip the UK of the ability to do any trade deals, would allow European exporters to keep exporting into the UK without any barriers, while UK services firms would face significant barriers in accessing the EU Single Market.

It’s clear that the strategy is to try and present a customs union form of Brexit verses remaining. Clearly a customs union has no benefits verses remaining in the EU and everyone would vote to Remain were that ever the choices on a ballot paper.

[SponPlague]

This is interesting: it seems it’s fairly easy to hack government petitions, even with unique email verification:

https://www.kent.house/uk-petition-a...acked-by-bots/

[Urs Max]

	Quote:
	It’s clear that the strategy is to try and present a customs union form of Brexit verses remaining. Clearly a customs union has no benefits verses remaining in the EU and everyone would vote to Remain were that ever the choices on a ballot paper.

Interesting. After all those repetitions I was just starting to believe that there are £350mln a week to be saved.

	Quote:	SponPlague
	This is interesting: it seems it’s fairly easy to hack government petitions, even with unique email verification: https://www.kent.house/uk-petition-a...acked-by-bots/

Bit sad that nobody tried to jazz the pro- No Deal petition with a similar truckload of signatures, isn't it..?

[Blueangel]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	Your charts show that in fact more Tories were prepared to “compromise” than Labour MPs.

I'd love to know how you work that out.

	Quote:	SponPlague
	This is interesting: it seems it’s fairly easy to hack government petitions, even with unique email verification: https://www.kent.house/uk-petition-a...acked-by-bots/

This was obvious from the start. This thing and that whole page is just a big joke.

It also shows that every single person can get their polls pass the milestones while acting solo.

[Dack Rambo]

	Quote:	Swisstree
	DUP are now hinting at swinging back to remain as it's better not to break up or threaten the union at all. I would laugh, but I am too tired.

The best option for them. Anything else is taking a risk on NI status within the UK.

	Quote:
	This was obvious from the start. This thing and that whole page is just a big joke. It also shows that every single person can get their polls pass the milestones while acting solo.

There are literally thousands of petitions on that site. If what you say is true, and it's a piece of cake for any old duffer to write a few lines of script to churn out signatures, why aren't they ALL busting the 6 million signature barrier?

Or is it just Remainers who have the IT skillz to do it?

[curley]

	Quote:
	Bit sad that nobody tried to jazz the pro- No Deal petition with a similar truckload of signatures, isn't it..?

It might be the thing people really want so they don't want it to be blamed to be tampered with.