The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH - Page 981

MusicChick · #**19601** 03.04.2019, 06:49

Because a bit of arrogant overconfidence mixed with navel gazing has never made any political group lose before?

k_and_e · #**19602** 03.04.2019, 07:34

	Quote:	greenmount
	A plausible scenario, actually. Nobody thought people will vote for Brexit or Trump in that large amounts, so nobody bothered to hack and troll the online platforms. That was (is) the anti-EU crowd and anti-...whatever Trump stands for' specialty. Brexit and even Trump came as a surprise. I remember reading about people voting for Brexit as an anti-British establishment vote while thinking Brexit will never win. So indeed, trolls, bots and hackers are the other side's modus operandi. Fake news too.

I don't think you can compare Brexit and Trump. Especially in Trump's case there was a choice between 2 not exactly credible candidates.

As for Brexit, keep in mind that propaganda hasn't been invented 3 years ago.

MusicChick · #**19603** 03.04.2019, 07:43

On the other hand, things can only move forward when people stop shrugging off their oponents as mere "propaganda" or "trolls, hackers, bots and fake news". It serves as posturing but doesn't bring the dialogue that is needed.

Respek.

SponPlague · #**19604** 03.04.2019, 08:02

	Quote:	Rob
	Nah that's just par for the caws.

Jeremy Corvin fans?

SponPlague · #**19605** 03.04.2019, 08:05

	Quote:	greenmount
	A plausible scenario, actually. Nobody thought people will vote for Brexit or Trump in that large amounts, so nobody bothered to hack and troll the online platforms. That was (is) the anti-EU crowd and anti-...whatever Trump stands for' specialty. Brexit and even Trump came as a surprise. I remember reading about people voting for Brexit as an anti-British establishment vote while thinking Brexit will never win. So indeed, trolls, bots and hackers are the other side's modus operandi. Fake news too.

I remember the UKIP press office denying Farage would be addressing a Trump rally... and I was astonished to see that Channel 4 news didn’t have anyone covering the non-Hilary side on election night!

SponPlague · #**19606** 03.04.2019, 08:07

	Quote:	k_and_e
	I don't think you can compare Brexit and Trump. Especially in Trump's case there was a choice between 2 not exactly credible candidates. As for Brexit, keep in mind that propaganda hasn't been invented 3 years ago.

Erm, actually you can, because Nigel Farage gave a keynote speech - with Trump as his warm-up - where he said everyone was against us: press, tv, pollsters etc., and despite that we won, and so can you...

MusicChick · #**19607** 03.04.2019, 08:15

I will try to not posture..lol. I know it will come across that way, but whatevs. This "despite" is old school political work. Winning parties these days are selling "togetherness" if you notice the rhetorics. Pretended or genuine, either way. That's something that is being cashed in, and will be. Fake polarisation is pasé, time for fake togetherness. Communities of consumers. Look at FB.

Nobody who shows up saying "I think that.." has a chance for any receptiveness. Social cohesion is in our evolutionary survival code. Despite the "I think...". It is already "I am a brand that our community needs". Macron did it (he has the looks for this marketing, too). May did not. Kudos to her, really.

#**19608** 03.04.2019, 08:55

Good morning Brexit..

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#**19609** 03.04.2019, 09:16

	Quote:	Swisstree
	Good morning Brexit.. Attachment 136397

Don't have nightmares, kids...

#**19610** 03.04.2019, 09:26

	Quote:	Swisstree
	Good morning Brexit.. Attachment 136397

Christ...

I must be tired, took me a while to realise it wasn't just Corbin in drag because the Last Leg boys had rolled out their looky-likey.

#**19611** 03.04.2019, 09:32

Theresa's got her sidekick or fall guy now.

She will continue on, not compromise and blame him when it all goes to pot.

#**19612** 03.04.2019, 09:49

	Quote:	Blueangel
	Yes, but I'm not crowing about it

I think it will daw on the whooshee soon.

curley · #**19613** 03.04.2019, 09:52

Has Theresa released her hostages yet?

Blueangel · #**19614** 03.04.2019, 11:14

	Quote:	Swisstree
	Good morning Brexit..

A little bit of sick just came into my mouth

What, with Mark Francois yesterday morning, and this today, I think I need to leave EF visits until after lunch

	Quote:	amogles
	Just think that through and maybe you will realize something about the stories of hackers and bots that supposedly went onto facebook and all the online forums and went into dicussions and convinced people to vote for Trump or Brexit or whatever else you disagree with, but that the other side was strangely incapable of doing the same for their cause, every single time.

You really don't understand the ancient art of disinformation, do you? Gift (Trojan) horse and all that...

Hostile powers aim to create instability. They profit from it politically and financially, and it's a powerful strategic tool for buying time. Thus, influence two huge political votes to bring about the unexpected result. Once that result has become the 'accepted norm', shift the influence in the other direction to extend the chaos period. A 3yr old can do it to great effect.

Blueangel · #**19615** 03.04.2019, 11:20

	Quote:
	I think it will daw on the whooshee soon.

Doubt it. With Corbyn thinking he's a Jack of all trades, and the PM going all Marjorie Dawes, there's a lot of whooshing to be had.

k_and_e · #**19616** 03.04.2019, 11:26

	Quote:	Blueangel
	Hostile powers aim to create instability. They profit from it politically and financially, and it's a powerful strategic tool for buying time. Thus, influence two huge political votes to bring about the unexpected result. Once that result has become the 'accepted norm', shift the influence in the other direction to extend the chaos period. A 3yr old can do it to great effect.

I want to challenge that the outcome of both votes was unexpected.

US presidency: 2 weak, unfavoured candidates that both probably would have lost against any credible candidate. The result was a bit of a lottery.

Brexit: I don't think there has ever been an overwhelming support for the EU in GB - but I might be wrong there.

#**19617** 03.04.2019, 11:34

	Quote:	k_and_e
	Brexit: I don't think there has ever been an overwhelming support for the EU in GB - but I might be wrong there.

The EU has been a convenient whipping boy for a weak and incompetent government.

Underfunded education? EU's fault.
Underfunded NHS? EU's fault.
Austerity measures? EU's fault.

Part of me thinks that a no-deal Brexit will be the ultimate "told you so" when the buck stops at the UK government and puts a glaring spotlight on their incompetence, although if the last three years are anything to go by there is little doubt of how badly parliament performs when faced with something they absolutely must sort out by a deadline.

Blueangel · #**19618** 03.04.2019, 11:38

	Quote:	k_and_e
	I want to challenge that the outcome of both votes was unexpected.

A good mate of mine in the U.S. made over $15k from two $50 early bets on Trump and Leave. Bit if you want to challenge thousands of posts over the 1,916 pages of the two threads concerned, by all means, fill yer boots

#**19619** 03.04.2019, 11:54

	Quote:	k_and_e
	Brexit: I don't think there has ever been an overwhelming support for the EU in GB - but I might be wrong there.

	Quote:
	The EU has been a convenient whipping boy for a weak and incompetent government.

More than that - it's been used for decades as a uniting force within the UK. Whenever there's something really bad going on in domestic politics it's oh so convenient to find a Euro-target that everyone can agree to hate.

Yes Minister always did a great job of summing up what the great unwashed really thought, or rather what they thought they thought, about Europe.

How does this work?

amogles · #**19620** 03.04.2019, 11:59

	Quote:	k_and_e
	I don't think you can compare Brexit and Trump. Especially in Trump's case there was a choice between 2 not exactly credible candidates.

Brexit was also a choice between two not entirely reasonable scenarios, where the far better thing to do would have been to go to Brussels and do some very serious ar** kicking.