View Poll Results: What would you personally prefer to happen? |
I want the UK to stay in an ever-closer union
|    | 49 | 23.11% |
I want the UK to stay in a loosely connected EU
|    | 68 | 32.08% |
I want the UK out because the EU is bad for the UK
|    | 22 | 10.38% |
I want the UK out because the EU is a bad thing
|    | 23 | 10.85% |
I want the UK out because this would be good for the rest of us
|    | 17 | 8.02% |
I don't really care
|    | 33 | 15.57% |  | | | 
03.04.2019, 06:49
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| | Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in
Because a bit of arrogant overconfidence mixed with navel gazing has never made any political group lose before?
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03.04.2019, 07:34
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| | Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in | Quote: | |  | | | A plausible scenario, actually. Nobody thought people will vote for Brexit or Trump in that large amounts, so nobody bothered to hack and troll the online platforms. That was (is) the anti-EU crowd and anti-...whatever Trump stands for' specialty.
Brexit and even Trump came as a surprise. I remember reading about people voting for Brexit as an anti-British establishment vote while thinking Brexit will never win. So indeed, trolls, bots and hackers are the other side's modus operandi. Fake news too. | | | | | I don't think you can compare Brexit and Trump. Especially in Trump's case there was a choice between 2 not exactly credible candidates.
As for Brexit, keep in mind that propaganda hasn't been invented 3 years ago.
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03.04.2019, 07:43
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| | Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in
On the other hand, things can only move forward when people stop shrugging off their oponents as mere "propaganda" or "trolls, hackers, bots and fake news". It serves as posturing but doesn't bring the dialogue that is needed.
Respek.
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03.04.2019, 08:02
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| | Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in | Quote: | |  | | | Nah that's just par for the caws. | | | | | Jeremy Corvin fans? | The following 2 users would like to thank SponPlague for this useful post: | | 
03.04.2019, 08:05
|  | Member | | Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: 8045 Zurich
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| | Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in | Quote: | |  | | | A plausible scenario, actually. Nobody thought people will vote for Brexit or Trump in that large amounts, so nobody bothered to hack and troll the online platforms. That was (is) the anti-EU crowd and anti-...whatever Trump stands for' specialty.
Brexit and even Trump came as a surprise. I remember reading about people voting for Brexit as an anti-British establishment vote while thinking Brexit will never win. So indeed, trolls, bots and hackers are the other side's modus operandi. Fake news too. | | | | | I remember the UKIP press office denying Farage would be addressing a Trump rally... and I was astonished to see that Channel 4 news didn’t have anyone covering the non-Hilary side on election night!
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03.04.2019, 08:07
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| | Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in | Quote: | |  | | | I don't think you can compare Brexit and Trump. Especially in Trump's case there was a choice between 2 not exactly credible candidates.
As for Brexit, keep in mind that propaganda hasn't been invented 3 years ago. | | | | | Erm, actually you can, because Nigel Farage gave a keynote speech - with Trump as his warm-up - where he said everyone was against us: press, tv, pollsters etc., and despite that we won, and so can you... | 
03.04.2019, 08:15
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| | Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in
I will try to not posture..lol. I know it will come across that way, but whatevs. This "despite" is old school political work. Winning parties these days are selling "togetherness" if you notice the rhetorics. Pretended or genuine, either way. That's something that is being cashed in, and will be. Fake polarisation is pasé, time for fake togetherness. Communities of consumers. Look at FB.
Nobody who shows up saying "I think that.." has a chance for any receptiveness. Social cohesion is in our evolutionary survival code. Despite the "I think...". It is already "I am a brand that our community needs". Macron did it (he has the looks for this marketing, too). May did not. Kudos to her, really.
__________________ "L'homme ne peut pas remplacer son coeur avec sa tete, ni sa tete avec ses mains." J.H. Pestalozzi “The only difference between a rut and a grave is a matter of depth.” S.P. Cadman "Imagination is more important than knowledge." A. Einstein
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03.04.2019, 08:55
| | Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in
Good morning Brexit.. | The following 2 users would like to thank for this useful post: | | 
03.04.2019, 09:16
| | Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in | Quote: | |  | | | | | | | | Don't have nightmares, kids... | This user would like to thank for this useful post: | | 
03.04.2019, 09:26
| | Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in | Quote: | |  | | | | | | | | Christ...
I must be tired, took me a while to realise it wasn't just Corbin in drag because the Last Leg boys had rolled out their looky-likey.
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03.04.2019, 09:32
| | Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in
Theresa's got her sidekick or fall guy now.
She will continue on, not compromise and blame him when it all goes to pot.
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03.04.2019, 09:49
| | Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in | Quote: | |  | | | Yes, but I'm not crowing about it  | | | | | I think it will daw on the whooshee soon.
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03.04.2019, 09:52
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| | Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in
Has Theresa released her hostages yet?
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03.04.2019, 11:14
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| | Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in | Quote: | |  | | | Good morning Brexit.. | | | | | A little bit of sick just came into my mouth  What, with Mark Francois yesterday morning, and this today, I think I need to leave EF visits until after lunch | Quote: | |  | | | Just think that through and maybe you will realize something about the stories of hackers and bots that supposedly went onto facebook and all the online forums and went into dicussions and convinced people to vote for Trump or Brexit or whatever else you disagree with, but that the other side was strangely incapable of doing the same for their cause, every single time. | | | | | You really don't understand the ancient art of disinformation, do you? Gift (Trojan) horse and all that...
Hostile powers aim to create instability. They profit from it politically and financially, and it's a powerful strategic tool for buying time. Thus, influence two huge political votes to bring about the unexpected result. Once that result has become the 'accepted norm', shift the influence in the other direction to extend the chaos period. A 3yr old can do it to great effect.
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03.04.2019, 11:20
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| | Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in | Quote: |  | | | I think it will daw on the whooshee soon. | | | | | Doubt it. With Corbyn thinking he's a Jack of all trades, and the PM going all Marjorie Dawes, there's a lot of whooshing to be had.
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03.04.2019, 11:26
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| | Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in | Quote: | |  | | | Hostile powers aim to create instability. They profit from it politically and financially, and it's a powerful strategic tool for buying time. Thus, influence two huge political votes to bring about the unexpected result. Once that result has become the 'accepted norm', shift the influence in the other direction to extend the chaos period. A 3yr old can do it to great effect. | | | | |
I want to challenge that the outcome of both votes was unexpected.
US presidency: 2 weak, unfavoured candidates that both probably would have lost against any credible candidate. The result was a bit of a lottery.
Brexit: I don't think there has ever been an overwhelming support for the EU in GB - but I might be wrong there.
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03.04.2019, 11:34
| | Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in | Quote: | |  | | | Brexit: I don't think there has ever been an overwhelming support for the EU in GB - but I might be wrong there. | | | | | The EU has been a convenient whipping boy for a weak and incompetent government.
Underfunded education? EU's fault.
Underfunded NHS? EU's fault.
Austerity measures? EU's fault.
Part of me thinks that a no-deal Brexit will be the ultimate "told you so" when the buck stops at the UK government and puts a glaring spotlight on their incompetence, although if the last three years are anything to go by there is little doubt of how badly parliament performs when faced with something they absolutely must sort out by a deadline.
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03.04.2019, 11:38
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| | Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in | Quote: | |  | | | I want to challenge that the outcome of both votes was unexpected. | | | | | A good mate of mine in the U.S. made over $15k from two $50 early bets on Trump and Leave. Bit if you want to challenge thousands of posts over the 1,916 pages of the two threads concerned, by all means, fill yer boots | 
03.04.2019, 11:54
| | Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in | Quote: | |  | | |
Brexit: I don't think there has ever been an overwhelming support for the EU in GB - but I might be wrong there.
| | | | | | Quote: |  | | | The EU has been a convenient whipping boy for a weak and incompetent government. | | | | | More than that - it's been used for decades as a uniting force within the UK. Whenever there's something really bad going on in domestic politics it's oh so convenient to find a Euro-target that everyone can agree to hate.
Yes Minister always did a great job of summing up what the great unwashed really thought, or rather what they thought they thought, about Europe. | 
03.04.2019, 11:59
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| | Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in | Quote: | |  | | | I don't think you can compare Brexit and Trump. Especially in Trump's case there was a choice between 2 not exactly credible candidates. | | | | | Brexit was also a choice between two not entirely reasonable scenarios, where the far better thing to do would have been to go to Brussels and do some very serious ar** kicking.
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