The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

	Quote:	eng_ch
	UK Gov has finally (!) published its policy paper on UK citizens in EU: https://assets.publishing.service.go..._in_the_EU.pdf One big issue is for those thinking of returning to the UK with their EU/EFTA-nationality spouse (i.e. CH), there is a cut-off of 29 March 2022, after which normal rules for non-EU spouses will apply. These draconian rules (minimum income has to be earned by the *UK citizen* so it's no good if the non-UK spouse is offered a job in the UK earning 6 figures, family income is disregarded) are already forcing UK citizens to choose between splitting up their family or accepting permanent exile from the country of their birth. There is a petition on Change.org to try and change that: https://www.change.org/p/sajid-javid...984-en-us%3Av6 Why does the UK treat its own citizens so shabbily?

They got advice from the US? Seriously.

When you apply for a green card (permanent residency) in the US for your spouse, you have to show that you can support said spouse. Doesn't matter if your spouse is making 6 figures, the US citizen applicant has to prove that he or she makes above poverty level, has support, etc.

Load of crap.

[marton]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	If you say so. EU now looks set to ask Ireland to accept concessions Dublin faces pressure from EU to help find compromise on backstop to save Theresa May’s Brexit deal Editorial: 'EU cannot allow us to burn as may fiddles over brexit'

It does not seem so long ago that you were mocking people for quoting the "fake news media", oh - wait a minute, it was not long ago

	Quote:	marton
	It does not seem so long ago that you were mocking people for quoting the "fake news media", oh - wait a minute, it was not long ago

what

	Quote:
	So everyone's vote was the deciding one then. Gotcha.

Exactly my point. I'm glad somebody got it.

[Urs Max]

	Quote:
	No it won't. No parliament can bind its successors so the law stands only until another vote supersedes it.

That seems doubtful. Taken a step further it would mean that a fresh parliament isn't bound to any rules because ultimately all (perhaps most) rules come from their predecessors.

[Phil_MCR]

	Quote:
	The House of Commons passed (by one vote!) a bill that effectively rules out no deal, but it has to be passed by the House of Lords to become law and of course, it all means nothing if the EU decides not to play along!

the HoC can pass as many bills as it likes stating that there should be no deal. it means nothing. to avoid no deal, they have to actually agree on a way forward and agree it with the EU.

[curley]

	Quote:	Urs Max
	That seems doubtful. Taken a step further it would mean that a fresh parliament isn't bound to any rules because ultimately all (perhaps most) rules come from their predecessors.

As baboon wrote:
<<No it won't. No parliament can bind its successors so the law stands only until another vote supersedes it.>>

I seem to remember a time when France kept changing from left to right almost every election and all those governements seemed to be able to do was undo what the other one had done the (four?) years before.

[Urs Max]

	Quote:
	If you say so. EU now looks set to ask Ireland to accept concessions Dublin faces pressure from EU to help find compromise on backstop to save Theresa May’s Brexit deal Editorial: 'EU cannot allow us to burn as may fiddles over brexit'

A hard Brexit would put Eire in an impossible situation as well. An open border with NI due to the GFA when the UK themselves abolish all import barriers, as May seems to intend IIRC, would immediately swamp Eire with untaxed goods and unchecked goods. No customs duties levied, no VAT, and at least some would be of doubtful quality.

So some form of giving in may be in everybody's best interests, including Eire's.

	Quote:	Urs Max
	A hard Brexit would put Eire in an impossible situation as well. An open border with NI due to the GFA when the UK themselves abolish all import barriers, as May seems to intend IIRC, would immediately swamp Eire with untaxed goods and unchecked goods. No customs duties levied, no VAT, and at least some would be of doubtful quality. So some form of giving in may be in everybody's best interests, including Eire's.

That was kinda my point. The EU has been using Varadkar as their patsy throughout this whole process - it was very convenient when they thought they could get what they wanted. Now that No Deal is very much a possibility we're seeing a change of tune with how much "solidarity" they actually have with Ireland and that the integrity of precious single market trumps all.

[Urs Max]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	That was kinda my point. The EU has been using Varadkar as their patsy throughout this whole process - it was very convenient when they thought they could get what they wanted. Now that No Deal is very much a possibility we're seeing a change of tune with how much "solidarity" they actually have with Ireland and that the integrity of precious single market trumps all.

Try to not focus on your favorite punching bag, switch to Eire instead. They themselves would be in an impossible situation, you can't have open borders, effectively to the world, without inviting chaos and wrecking your state.

For instance VAT fraud would develop almost immediately - export to the UK and claim back Eire VAT, followed by a black re-import over the open border. If possible rinse and repeat.

That's just one obvious exploit of an open border, probably there are many more. And that's not even considering importing criminals, illegal drugs, fake legal drugs, etc.

	Quote:	Urs Max
	That's just one obvious exploit of an open border, probably there are many more. And that's not even considering importing criminals, illegal drugs, fake legal drugs, etc.

Erm, isn't the border currently open?

[eng_ch]

	Quote:	Blueangel
	Not got time to fact check this right now, but on the surface, it appears alarming. I never earned the minimum income required in my 50yrs of living in the UK. Also, when my mate moved back to the UK after working in Japan for 8yrs, it took over 8mths for him to secure family reunification to bring his wife over.

It is indeed £18.6k - but it is a little known fact that any UK citizen who wishes their non-EU/UK spouse to be able to join them has to earn that much. We personally have a ski mate who has been trying for 3-4 years to get his US wife into the UK so they could live together there. He earns more than that, declares such to HMRC who accept that, but the HO won't accept it because some of it is cash and doesn't go through his bank account. They've spent thousands and appealed, and they've finally been worn down; he's given up, sold his business in the UK and is going to end up in the US.


The chap who posted the petition earns more, but it isn't accepted because he's self-employed.


I've heard anecdotally of a family - UK wife, Aus husband, dual national kids - who wanted to move back to the UK to be nearer her parents as they get old, and it all looked good because the husband was offered a job with a 6-figure salary and they were refused because it was the non-UK citizen that had the income.


One of my best friends is a self-employed freelance translator living in Rome with her Italian husband and dual national baby son. If they - by some strange twist of fate - decided or needed to move to the UK, in the event of a non-EFTA or better FOM deal, she would have to show 3 years of accounts in the UK before she could apply for her husband to join her there - and where should her son stay in that time?



I just wish UK citizens living in the UK had the first idea of just how draconian the UK's immigration laws already are. I really don't think even the most rabid of leavers would think it was right to deny spouses the ability to live together providing it's a genuine relationship.

[eng_ch]

	Quote:	greenmount
	But these rules were not imposed by the EU, I'm sure you know that. My guess is they targeted a specific group(s) and of course, it hit everyone else. Btw, did they promise they'll change the legislation in the anti-EU campaign?

No, this is and has long been standard generic immigration policy in the UK, not targeted at any specific group. EU FoM simply trumped it for EU citizens. The thing is it is not at all well known, especially among the general public in the UK.

She gets it.

How does this work?

[YuropFlyer]

Are you by any chance related to Mosley?

Suppose you would be proud if so..

	Quote:	YuropFlyer
	Are you by any chance related to Mosley? Suppose you would be proud if so..

Nah, but the chap who is will soon be voting on Brexit legislation

Aristocrat wins Parliament seat for life with 18 votes in 'outrageous' election

	Quote:	Loz1983
	She gets it. How does this work?

You're trolling again, right? Invoking AfD as a role model for Brexiteers...

Can we count AfD mentions towards the Godwinisation of this thread?

[SponPlague]

We must strive to make this thread Godwin’s law non compliant!

	Quote:
	You're trolling again, right? Invoking AfD as a role model for Brexiteers... Can we count AfD mentions towards the Godwinisation of this thread?

That's because I'm able to filter what is being said from a party name, you should try it sometime. This attitude is also partly the reason that the AfD is currently the third largest party in the Bundestag.

Looks like Donald Tusk is willing to offer the UK as long as it takes to reverse the referendum result.

Brexit: EU's Donald Tusk 'suggests 12-month flexible delay'