View Poll Results: What would you personally prefer to happen? |
I want the UK to stay in an ever-closer union
|    | 49 | 23.11% |
I want the UK to stay in a loosely connected EU
|    | 68 | 32.08% |
I want the UK out because the EU is bad for the UK
|    | 22 | 10.38% |
I want the UK out because the EU is a bad thing
|    | 23 | 10.85% |
I want the UK out because this would be good for the rest of us
|    | 17 | 8.02% |
I don't really care
|    | 33 | 15.57% |  | | | 
11.04.2019, 11:39
| | Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in
The main thinking behind the referendum was to control and pull together the Tory party. There was no real interest in running a sincere campaign or educating the public on the choices.
It was a false referendum and they all sleep walked into the result. Cameron, Johnson, Gove, Duncan Smith et al had their eyes purely on the tory party prize.
It is the exact same today and the main reason May will never get her deal over the line, and this mess will roll on.
| The following 5 users would like to thank for this useful post: | | 
11.04.2019, 11:54
| Forum Legend | | Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: SG
Posts: 10,463
Groaned at 639 Times in 463 Posts
Thanked 14,140 Times in 7,390 Posts
| | Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in | Quote: |  | | | So how would you class the MPs, MEPs and peers running the campaigns if you don't want to acknowledge their connection to the government? | | | | | I didn't say there's no connection. I like the terms talking heads or figureheads.
Last edited by Urs Max; 11.04.2019 at 14:29.
Reason: added "terms"
| 
11.04.2019, 12:19
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Kt. Bern
Posts: 5,567
Groaned at 338 Times in 254 Posts
Thanked 9,170 Times in 4,010 Posts
| | Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in | Quote: | |  | | | but then you shouldn't do a referendum. or would you organise a referendum about a referendum? | | | | | In the U.K. an a referendum is advisory and can never be anything else under their so called constitution. If you don’t give the government the mandate then it might as well have not happened, as we are seeing.
| 
11.04.2019, 12:22
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Zurich area
Posts: 13,467
Groaned at 106 Times in 95 Posts
Thanked 20,881 Times in 9,201 Posts
| | Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in | Quote: |  | | | So how would you class the MPs, MEPs and peers running the campaigns if you don't want to acknowledge their connection to the government? | | | | | First, it is an alien concept for any Swiss to have "official" campaigns. Second, I would class them as politicians. A politician does what politicians do. Lobbying, promoting their personal ideas and beliefs, getting the voting population on their side, deceive them, and screw the electorate in the end. Third, MPs, MEPs, and other peers are not the government if they are not part of the executive branch (Prime Minister and its Cabinet members).
In a Swiss vote the official stance of the government can be found in the official leaflet. All other opinions, those from parties, MP, and campaigns are solely the private opinions of those. On the other hand a member of the government, a federal council member, must represent and defend the governments point of view even if it is against his own or its party's opinion. In addition to that, the governments view and opinion is separate from the view of any campaign even if the government agrees with the motion per se.
__________________
What?
| The following 2 users would like to thank aSwissInTheUS for this useful post: | | 
11.04.2019, 12:32
| | Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in | Quote: | |  | | | In the U.K. an a referendum is advisory and can never be anything else under their so called constitution. If you don’t give the government the mandate then it might as well have not happened, as we are seeing. | | | | | Actually not the case - the 2011 AV referendum was binding (or as binding as it can be under the UK "constitution"*). Basically you write the legislation in advance of the referendum and include a provision enacting it in the event of a yes vote.
However this was definitely not the case for the EU referendum. https://www.theguardian.com/politics...ign-parliament
* - even if the legislation were enacted, there is nothing to stop the government proposing legislation to amend or repeal it straight afterwards if they so choose thus limiting the binding nature in theory
| 
11.04.2019, 12:48
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: Küsnacht, Switzerland
Posts: 4,277
Groaned at 131 Times in 115 Posts
Thanked 11,526 Times in 5,023 Posts
| | Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in | Quote: | |  | | | He said it repeatedly during the post-2015 negotiations on a better deal with the EU, whenever the press asked him about recommending leave in the event of a bad negotiation result. During the referendum itself, his deal was never mentioned again, because everyone knew it was laughable... | | | | | I can't find a single documented occasion when he said that between the 2015 G.E. and him leaving office on 24 June 2016. Not one.
| 
11.04.2019, 12:55
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: canton ZH
Posts: 13,131
Groaned at 218 Times in 182 Posts
Thanked 15,264 Times in 7,847 Posts
| | Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in | Quote: | |  | | | In the U.K. an a referendum is advisory and can never be anything else under their so called constitution. If you don’t give the government the mandate then it might as well have not happened, as we are seeing. | | | | | And who gives the governement the mandate in GB? The queen?
| 
11.04.2019, 13:25
| Forum Veteran | | Join Date: Jan 2017 Location: Zürich
Posts: 909
Groaned at 83 Times in 66 Posts
Thanked 1,192 Times in 581 Posts
| | Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in
That ends season 1
Hope season 2 won’t be that silly..
| 
11.04.2019, 13:58
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: May 2008 Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 12,179
Groaned at 678 Times in 569 Posts
Thanked 23,270 Times in 12,217 Posts
| | Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in | Quote: | |  | | | And who gives the governement the mandate in GB? The queen? | | | | | Magna Carta innit!
| 
11.04.2019, 13:59
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: Küsnacht, Switzerland
Posts: 4,277
Groaned at 131 Times in 115 Posts
Thanked 11,526 Times in 5,023 Posts
| | Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in | Quote: | |  | | | And who gives the governement the mandate in GB? The queen? | | | | | The public via a General Election. If the public return enough Conservative MPs to Parliament, they have (supposedly and usually) the voting power i.e. mandate, to get their legislation, etc, through. In the 2017 G.E., May lost the clear Conservative majority in the House of Commons and therefore, lost her mandate.
| The following 5 users would like to thank Blueangel for this useful post: | | 
11.04.2019, 14:07
| | Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in | Quote: | |  | | | The public via a General Election. If the public return enough Conservative MPs to Parliament, they have (supposedly and usually) the voting power i.e. mandate, to get their legislation, etc, through. In the 2017 G.E., May lost the clear Conservative majority in the House of Commons and therefore, lost her mandate. | | | | | And in walked Arlene.. | The following 2 users would like to thank for this useful post: | | 
11.04.2019, 14:08
| Forum Legend | | Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Switzerland
Posts: 9,127
Groaned at 335 Times in 258 Posts
Thanked 20,876 Times in 7,340 Posts
| | Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in | Quote: | |  | | | The public via a General Election. If the public return enough Conservative MPs to Parliament, they have (supposedly and usually) the voting power i.e. mandate, to get their legislation, etc, through. In the 2017 G.E., May lost the clear Conservative majority in the House of Commons and therefore, lost her mandate. | | | | |
The Cameron government had the mandate and promised to implement the outcome of the referendum.
Now there is a coalition government which has a majority and also has the mandate.
| 
11.04.2019, 14:14
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: Küsnacht, Switzerland
Posts: 4,277
Groaned at 131 Times in 115 Posts
Thanked 11,526 Times in 5,023 Posts
| | Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in | Quote: | |  | | | The Cameron government had the mandate and promised to implement the outcome of the referendum.
Now there is a coalition government which has a majority and also has the mandate. | | | | | Cameron had a coalition agreement with the Lib Dems, then he had a mandate by a clear majority in the 2015 GE. May took over that mandate / majority and totally fecked it up in the 2017 GE which led to a confidence-and-supply agreement with the DUP, which is not a coalition and they do not have a majority in Parliament. I hope I've made that clear, but am happy to be corrected by someone who has all the legal terminology stored in their noggin.
Anyway, a little light relief from my favourite feline reporter... | The following 3 users would like to thank Blueangel for this useful post: | | 
11.04.2019, 14:19
| | Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in | Quote: | |  | | | And in walked Arlene..  | | | | | Sounds like a Dexy's Midnight Runners tribute band.
| The following 3 users would like to thank for this useful post: | | 
11.04.2019, 14:22
| | Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in | Quote: | |  | | | Cameron had a coalition agreement with the Lib Dems, then he had a mandate by a clear majority in the 2015 GE. May took over that mandate / majority and totally fecked it up in the 2017 GE which led to a confidence-and-supply agreement with the DUP, which is not a coalition and they do not have a majority in Parliament. I hope I've made that clear, but am happy to be corrected by someone who has all the legal terminology stored in their noggin.
Anyway, a little light relief from my favourite feline reporter... Attachment 136461  | | | | | But both are massive -holes.
| The following 2 users would like to thank for this useful post: | | 
11.04.2019, 14:23
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: Küsnacht, Switzerland
Posts: 4,277
Groaned at 131 Times in 115 Posts
Thanked 11,526 Times in 5,023 Posts
| | Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in
Just for clarification, this is the difference between a coalition and a confidence and supply agreement. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confidence_and_supply | 
11.04.2019, 14:26
| | Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in | Quote: |  | | | Sounds like a Dexy's Midnight Runners tribute band. | | | | |
If only..
| 
11.04.2019, 14:29
|  | Member | | Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: 8045 Zurich
Posts: 240
Groaned at 8 Times in 5 Posts
Thanked 257 Times in 152 Posts
| | Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in | Quote: | |  | | | I can't find a single documented occasion when he said that between the 2015 G.E. and him leaving office on 24 June 2016. Not one. | | | | | He said it, but not with that wording - my oops https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-34654797 | Quote: |  | | | Speaking at Prime Minister's Questions, he said: "If we don't get what we need in our negotiations I rule nothing out, but I do think it's important that as we have this debate as a nation that we are very clear about the facts and figures of the alternatives. | | | | | | 
11.04.2019, 14:29
|  | Forum Veteran | | Join Date: May 2008 Location: Zurich
Posts: 1,045
Groaned at 44 Times in 28 Posts
Thanked 815 Times in 422 Posts
| | Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in
My last opportunity to vote in elections in the UK the local and EU elections (after 15 years you are ineligible) : https://www.gov.uk/register-to-vote | 
11.04.2019, 14:37
| Forum Legend | | Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: SG
Posts: 10,463
Groaned at 639 Times in 463 Posts
Thanked 14,140 Times in 7,390 Posts
| | Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in | Quote: | |  | | | The Cameron government had the mandate and promised to implement the outcome of the referendum.
Now there is a coalition government which has a majority and also has the mandate. | | | | | Cameron wasn't authorised to make the promise in the first place.
| This user would like to thank Urs Max for this useful post: | |
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 3 (0 members and 3 guests) | | Thread Tools | | Display Modes | Linear Mode |
Posting Rules
| You may not post new threads You may not post replies You may not post attachments You may not edit your posts HTML code is Off | | | All times are GMT +2. The time now is 21:42. | |