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View Poll Results: What would you personally prefer to happen?
I want the UK to stay in an ever-closer union 49 23.11%
I want the UK to stay in a loosely connected EU 68 32.08%
I want the UK out because the EU is bad for the UK 22 10.38%
I want the UK out because the EU is a bad thing 23 10.85%
I want the UK out because this would be good for the rest of us 17 8.02%
I don't really care 33 15.57%
Voters: 212. You may not vote on this poll

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  #19881  
Old 11.04.2019, 11:39
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

The main thinking behind the referendum was to control and pull together the Tory party. There was no real interest in running a sincere campaign or educating the public on the choices.

It was a false referendum and they all sleep walked into the result. Cameron, Johnson, Gove, Duncan Smith et al had their eyes purely on the tory party prize.

It is the exact same today and the main reason May will never get her deal over the line, and this mess will roll on.
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  #19882  
Old 11.04.2019, 11:54
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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So how would you class the MPs, MEPs and peers running the campaigns if you don't want to acknowledge their connection to the government?
I didn't say there's no connection. I like the terms talking heads or figureheads.

Last edited by Urs Max; 11.04.2019 at 14:29. Reason: added "terms"
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  #19883  
Old 11.04.2019, 12:19
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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but then you shouldn't do a referendum. or would you organise a referendum about a referendum?
In the U.K. an a referendum is advisory and can never be anything else under their so called constitution. If you don’t give the government the mandate then it might as well have not happened, as we are seeing.
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  #19884  
Old 11.04.2019, 12:22
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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So how would you class the MPs, MEPs and peers running the campaigns if you don't want to acknowledge their connection to the government?
First, it is an alien concept for any Swiss to have "official" campaigns. Second, I would class them as politicians. A politician does what politicians do. Lobbying, promoting their personal ideas and beliefs, getting the voting population on their side, deceive them, and screw the electorate in the end. Third, MPs, MEPs, and other peers are not the government if they are not part of the executive branch (Prime Minister and its Cabinet members).

In a Swiss vote the official stance of the government can be found in the official leaflet. All other opinions, those from parties, MP, and campaigns are solely the private opinions of those. On the other hand a member of the government, a federal council member, must represent and defend the governments point of view even if it is against his own or its party's opinion. In addition to that, the governments view and opinion is separate from the view of any campaign even if the government agrees with the motion per se.
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  #19885  
Old 11.04.2019, 12:32
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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In the U.K. an a referendum is advisory and can never be anything else under their so called constitution. If you don’t give the government the mandate then it might as well have not happened, as we are seeing.
Actually not the case - the 2011 AV referendum was binding (or as binding as it can be under the UK "constitution"*). Basically you write the legislation in advance of the referendum and include a provision enacting it in the event of a yes vote.

However this was definitely not the case for the EU referendum.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...ign-parliament

* - even if the legislation were enacted, there is nothing to stop the government proposing legislation to amend or repeal it straight afterwards if they so choose thus limiting the binding nature in theory
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  #19886  
Old 11.04.2019, 12:48
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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He said it repeatedly during the post-2015 negotiations on a better deal with the EU, whenever the press asked him about recommending leave in the event of a bad negotiation result. During the referendum itself, his deal was never mentioned again, because everyone knew it was laughable...
I can't find a single documented occasion when he said that between the 2015 G.E. and him leaving office on 24 June 2016. Not one.
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  #19887  
Old 11.04.2019, 12:55
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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In the U.K. an a referendum is advisory and can never be anything else under their so called constitution. If you don’t give the government the mandate then it might as well have not happened, as we are seeing.
And who gives the governement the mandate in GB? The queen?
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  #19888  
Old 11.04.2019, 13:25
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

That ends season 1

Hope season 2 won’t be that silly..
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  #19889  
Old 11.04.2019, 13:58
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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And who gives the governement the mandate in GB? The queen?
Magna Carta innit!
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  #19890  
Old 11.04.2019, 13:59
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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And who gives the governement the mandate in GB? The queen?
The public via a General Election. If the public return enough Conservative MPs to Parliament, they have (supposedly and usually) the voting power i.e. mandate, to get their legislation, etc, through. In the 2017 G.E., May lost the clear Conservative majority in the House of Commons and therefore, lost her mandate.
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  #19891  
Old 11.04.2019, 14:07
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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The public via a General Election. If the public return enough Conservative MPs to Parliament, they have (supposedly and usually) the voting power i.e. mandate, to get their legislation, etc, through. In the 2017 G.E., May lost the clear Conservative majority in the House of Commons and therefore, lost her mandate.
And in walked Arlene..
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  #19892  
Old 11.04.2019, 14:08
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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The public via a General Election. If the public return enough Conservative MPs to Parliament, they have (supposedly and usually) the voting power i.e. mandate, to get their legislation, etc, through. In the 2017 G.E., May lost the clear Conservative majority in the House of Commons and therefore, lost her mandate.

The Cameron government had the mandate and promised to implement the outcome of the referendum.
Now there is a coalition government which has a majority and also has the mandate.
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  #19893  
Old 11.04.2019, 14:14
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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The Cameron government had the mandate and promised to implement the outcome of the referendum.
Now there is a coalition government which has a majority and also has the mandate.
Cameron had a coalition agreement with the Lib Dems, then he had a mandate by a clear majority in the 2015 GE. May took over that mandate / majority and totally fecked it up in the 2017 GE which led to a confidence-and-supply agreement with the DUP, which is not a coalition and they do not have a majority in Parliament. I hope I've made that clear, but am happy to be corrected by someone who has all the legal terminology stored in their noggin.

Anyway, a little light relief from my favourite feline reporter...

Name:  black.JPG
Views: 148
Size:  38.9 KB

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  #19894  
Old 11.04.2019, 14:19
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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And in walked Arlene..
Sounds like a Dexy's Midnight Runners tribute band.
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  #19895  
Old 11.04.2019, 14:22
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Cameron had a coalition agreement with the Lib Dems, then he had a mandate by a clear majority in the 2015 GE. May took over that mandate / majority and totally fecked it up in the 2017 GE which led to a confidence-and-supply agreement with the DUP, which is not a coalition and they do not have a majority in Parliament. I hope I've made that clear, but am happy to be corrected by someone who has all the legal terminology stored in their noggin.

Anyway, a little light relief from my favourite feline reporter...

Attachment 136461

But both are massive -holes.
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  #19896  
Old 11.04.2019, 14:23
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Just for clarification, this is the difference between a coalition and a confidence and supply agreement.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confidence_and_supply
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  #19897  
Old 11.04.2019, 14:26
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Sounds like a Dexy's Midnight Runners tribute band.


If only..
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  #19898  
Old 11.04.2019, 14:29
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I can't find a single documented occasion when he said that between the 2015 G.E. and him leaving office on 24 June 2016. Not one.
He said it, but not with that wording - my oops

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-34654797

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Speaking at Prime Minister's Questions, he said: "If we don't get what we need in our negotiations I rule nothing out, but I do think it's important that as we have this debate as a nation that we are very clear about the facts and figures of the alternatives.
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  #19899  
Old 11.04.2019, 14:29
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

My last opportunity to vote in elections in the UK the local and EU elections (after 15 years you are ineligible) :

https://www.gov.uk/register-to-vote
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  #19900  
Old 11.04.2019, 14:37
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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The Cameron government had the mandate and promised to implement the outcome of the referendum.
Now there is a coalition government which has a majority and also has the mandate.
Cameron wasn't authorised to make the promise in the first place.
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