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  #141  
Old 08.04.2016, 16:44
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Re: Mossack Fonseca leak reveals elite's tax havens

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< bites lip >

arse meet elbow
Funny how you keep evading the actual argument. Now why could that be.
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  #142  
Old 08.04.2016, 17:04
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Re: Mossack Fonseca leak reveals elite's tax havens

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So essentially you want to remove the rule of law: Doesn't matter if it was legal, the mob decides at will.

Do take note that part of the reason for the taxpayer-friendly tax regime here is exactly because part of the swiss business model has been, and continues to be, to attract wealth in search of a tax haven. Therfore each and everyone of us has been and still is profiting from exactly these schemes.

Two years ago when the machinations of exactly the same nature of our 'dear' Bundesrat Schneider-Amman came to light this forum was eerily quiet. How come?

Just to be clear:
I'm talking about legal actions only, euphemised as tax optimisation and evasion, not about tax fraud. I deeply despise the general concept behind the euphemised actions, but I realize that you can't have the cake and eat it too - what I'm pointing at is the hypocrisy and mendacity behind the outrage by the swiss population including those who happen to be on this board.
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Funny how you keep evading the actual argument. Now why could that be.
stop playing games, you edited post 120 about 30 minutes after I posted 122. You changed it quite a lot form the original ad hominem post. That's why I'm not taking you seriously.

The only reasonable comment you made was in the edit which I missed until now and it reads: "Just to be clear:
I'm talking about legal actions only, euphemised as tax optimisation and evasion, not about tax fraud. I deeply despise the general concept behind the euphemised actions, but I realize that you can't have the cake and eat it too - what I'm pointing at is the hypocrisy and mendacity behind the outrage by the swiss population including those who happen to be on this board."
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  #143  
Old 08.04.2016, 17:36
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Re: Mossack Fonseca leak reveals elite's tax havens

I edited it because I wasn't satisfied with what I'd written. Last time I checked that's what editing is for, among other things.

With 40 posts per page #120 is last on page 3. I hadn't seen yours until later.

All that doesn't change that you want retroactive and thereby arbitrary punishment of what were legal undertakings at the time they happened. That's rule of the mob. I'm still waiting for you rebuttal.
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  #144  
Old 08.04.2016, 17:39
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Re: Mossack Fonseca leak reveals elite's tax havens

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I edited it because I wasn't satisfied with what I'd written. Last time I checked that's what editing is for, among other things.

With 40 posts per page #120 is last on page 3. I hadn't seen yours until later.

All that doesn't change that you want retroactive and thereby arbitrary punishment of what were legal undertakings at the time they happened. That's rule of the mob. I'm still waiting for you rebuttal.
I reacted to your original post which you changed 30 minutes later. It's impossible to keep up with that kind of game playing.

Anyway I said you made a reasonable point in my last point

I don't see why I have to address your "rule of the mob" comment because I never said it nor did I imply that I supported it
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  #145  
Old 10.04.2016, 21:47
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Re: Mossack Fonseca leak reveals elite's tax havens

Putin's cellist friend said; "Without directly answering the allegations that he personally controls a series of assets worth at least $100m, Roldugin insisted his “wealth” was merely a series of donations from rich businessmen in order to purchase expensive musical instruments for young Russians."

Well that is OK then
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  #146  
Old 12.04.2016, 10:50
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Re: Mossack Fonseca leak reveals elite's tax havens

In the meantime have the Geneva cops entered and confiscated a paiting in the freeport. That's something that hardly ever happens... kind of the USP of the freeport that nobody knows whats in there and who it belongs to.


Long story short: The Nazis stole a Mogliani from a Jewish collector. The part of history that "monuments men" did not cover is that a lot of the art that American soldiers recovered in the last days of WW2 ended up on the black market with US collectors... (but it's of course much nicer for Hollywood to pretend that American soldiers rescued their European heritage instead of making a fast buck...). This Mogliani ended up with a famous art trader family. The heirs of the original Jewish owner were fighting for years in US courts to get the painting back... but the US family simply claimed that they do not own it... it was owned by a Panama post box company. Thanks to the leak do we now know who actually owns said Panama company... and surprise, surprise: It is a family member of said US collectors.


http://www.sueddeutsche.de/kultur/pa...elde-1.2945438
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  #147  
Old 12.04.2016, 12:17
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Re: Mossack Fonseca leak reveals elite's tax havens

As many have said before it is hardly a surprise to read the revelations from the Panama Papers but goshhh it still is mind-blowing to read.
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  #148  
Old 12.04.2016, 12:22
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Re: Mossack Fonseca leak reveals elite's tax havens

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As many have said before it is hardly a surprise to read the revelations from the Panama Papers but goshhh it still is mind-blowing to read.
Nah! I only read what other EFers gotta say on this topic and it already sounds dramatic enough.
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  #149  
Old 12.04.2016, 12:39
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Re: Mossack Fonseca leak reveals elite's tax havens

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In the meantime have the Geneva cops entered and confiscated a paiting in the freeport. That's something that hardly ever happens... kind of the USP of the freeport that nobody knows whats in there and who it belongs to.


Long story short: The Nazis stole a Mogliani from a Jewish collector. The part of history that "monuments men" did not cover is that a lot of the art that American soldiers recovered in the last days of WW2 ended up on the black market with US collectors... (but it's of course much nicer for Hollywood to pretend that American soldiers rescued their European heritage instead of making a fast buck...). This Mogliani ended up with a famous art trader family. The heirs of the original Jewish owner were fighting for years in US courts to get the painting back... but the US family simply claimed that they do not own it... it was owned by a Panama post box company. Thanks to the leak do we now know who actually owns said Panama company... and surprise, surprise: It is a family member of said US collectors.


http://www.sueddeutsche.de/kultur/pa...elde-1.2945438
This story sounds a bit dodgy to me,

Suppose you steal an apple from a shop and as you go out a security guy stops you and orders you to put the apple back. You reply, I don't actually own the apple as I have transferred it to a company in Panama and therefore I can't give it back.

It's bonkers because you can't transfer ownership of something you don't legally hold title to. End of.

The whole thing sounds more Monty Pythonesque than realistic.
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  #150  
Old 12.04.2016, 12:48
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Re: Mossack Fonseca leak reveals elite's tax havens

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This story sounds a bit dodgy to me,

Suppose you steal an apple from a shop and as you go out a security guy stops you and orders you to put the apple back. You reply, I don't actually own the apple as I have transferred it to a company in Panama and therefore I can't give it back.

It's bonkers because you can't transfer ownership of something you don't legally hold title to. End of.

The whole thing sounds more Monty Pythonesque than realistic.


You don't say "I cannot give the apple back because I don't own it anymore"... you say "I sold the apple to some company in Panama and I have no idea who they are and where they store the apple"... while you are of course the owner of the company and know where you put the apple yourself. A US court will not easily be able to search some storage of a Panama company in Switzerland based on some art deal decades ago and the painting may or may not still be there... you do need some reasonable argument that it might be. At the moment they knew that the Panama company was indeed owned by the American did they know that the whole thing is just a sleight of hand and moved in within a week. Which is about record time for Geneva cops...
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  #151  
Old 12.04.2016, 13:00
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Re: Mossack Fonseca leak reveals elite's tax havens

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Indeed our Finance Minister Ueli Maurer has already made a statement that there is nothing wrong with such off-shore activities and so he plans no new legislation

Things may change a bit here after the new US tax inversion laws from last Monday which are designed to prevent companies moving their profits to lower tax countries.
I hope my smiley at the end of my comment didn't mean I endorsed such activities or embraced this lovely mountain nation for its culpability, I really, really do not.
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  #152  
Old 12.04.2016, 13:15
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Re: Mossack Fonseca leak reveals elite's tax havens

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This story sounds a bit dodgy to me,

Suppose you steal an apple from a shop and as you go out a security guy stops you and orders you to put the apple back. You reply, I don't actually own the apple as I have transferred it to a company in Panama and therefore I can't give it back.

It's bonkers because you can't transfer ownership of something you don't legally hold title to. End of.

The whole thing sounds more Monty Pythonesque than realistic.
This analogy falls down because the owner of the painting did not have it in his hand; no corpus delicti!

The tragedy is that this famous painting was stored in a warehouse where nobody could see it.
Should be hung in a suitable place and viewed, reminds me of uncle Scrooge McDuck.
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  #153  
Old 12.04.2016, 13:19
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Re: Mossack Fonseca leak reveals elite's tax havens

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As many have said before it is hardly a surprise to read the revelations from the Panama Papers but goshhh it still is mind-blowing to read.
Key point is that there was lots of speculation and conspiracy theories floating around before this leak but now we have facts.
We know and can actually act on the information.
That is a very big difference.
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  #154  
Old 12.04.2016, 13:32
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Re: Mossack Fonseca leak reveals elite's tax havens

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I hope my smiley at the end of my comment didn't mean I endorsed such activities or embraced this lovely mountain nation for its culpability, I really, really do not.
Irony is well understood in EF
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  #155  
Old 12.04.2016, 13:34
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Re: Mossack Fonseca leak reveals elite's tax havens

There were some quite hilarious protests at the weekend outside Downing Street to protest again Cameron paying his taxes and the Panama papers in general. Here were some highlights:

Many turned up in Hawaiian shirts to show their disgust at the Panama papers. If only there was an iconic piece of clothing from Panama that the protesters could have appropriated...



We're anarchists...PAY YOUR TAXES!



If you're rich, we're going to kill you...

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  #156  
Old 12.04.2016, 13:37
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Re: Mossack Fonseca leak reveals elite's tax havens

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There were some quite hilarious protests at the weekend outside downing street to protest again Cameron paying his taxes and the Panama papers in general. Here were some highlights:

Many turned up in Hawaiian shirts to show their disgust at the Panama papers. If only there was an iconic piece of clothing from Panama that the protesters could have appropriated...


We're anarchists...PAY YOUR TAXES!


If you're rich, we're going to kill you...
If you want to get ahead then get a hat!
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  #157  
Old 12.04.2016, 15:07
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Re: Mossack Fonseca leak reveals elite's tax havens

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We're anarchists...PAY YOUR TAXES!
That's your best shot? Honestly...the lady from the black block is taking a picture of the protest... with an iPad. A product from a company that is legendary for its tax avoidance schemes...
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  #158  
Old 12.04.2016, 16:20
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Re: Mossack Fonseca leak reveals elite's tax havens

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That's your best shot? Honestly...the lady from the black block is taking a picture of the protest... with an iPad. A product from a company that is legendary for its tax avoidance schemes...
Oh the irony, I love it. These peeps are so dumb, they are probably all middle class hipsters.
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  #159  
Old 13.04.2016, 00:52
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Re: Mossack Fonseca leak reveals elite's tax havens

Looks like there will be some strong action!
"Tax investigators from 28 countries will meet in Paris on Wednesday [tomorrow] to launch an unprecedented international inquiry following the publication of the Panama Papers.

Senior officials from tax authorities around the world have said they intend to work together to analyse information revealed by the documents, which have provoked international concern over the offshore industry."

Source
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  #160  
Old 13.04.2016, 09:55
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Re: Mossack Fonseca leak reveals elite's tax havens

If I had to guess I'd say the two guys in the Hawaii shirts are press people, which is why they're standing in front of the barriers as opposed to behind.
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