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  #421  
Old 14.08.2018, 17:31
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Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah

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Tories, Trump, Boris, some random bomb attack from 1946, and to think I’m the one regularly accused of whataboutism.
Has anyone here read Boris' article, by the way? It's bizarre how a spirited defence of personal freedom has been interpreted as "islamophobia".

I can't stand the devious bastard, but fair's fair, eh?
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  #422  
Old 14.08.2018, 17:49
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Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah

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Because Corbyn is a slimy little anti-semitic shit.

HTH
Except he isn't, is he. We're told very often that he is, but his actions and history dont really support that.

The fact that he broke bread with jews, even when other jews were calling him antisemitic (cue these other jews being called 'not real jews'), and has called consistently for dialogue with jews would also belie that suggestion.

The second 'H' in your oft-repeated 'HTH' could probably do with a review.

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Tories, Trump, Boris, some random bomb attack from 1946, and to think I’m the one regularly accused of whataboutism.
Except it isn't 'whataboutism' is it? You mean 'whataboutery' and that requires that we ignore history. This actually happened. A plaque was unveiled blaming the British for not evacuating the hotel. If you want to ignore that little piece of history then you have to also ignore the little piece of history that Corbyn is being brutalised for. No one likes a hypocrite.

'Its not our fault so many died, we tried to be nice about killing them'...sounds familiar, no?

It isn't some fictional situation, its modern history. And no one cared, because it happened such a long time ago and the world has moved on. I recall few people claiming netanyahu was anti-british when he was celebrating their deaths.

But when Corbyn attends a ceremony over a decade ago that was also attended by some other people that we now find unsavory, to place a wreath, well by jove, the man should obviously be hung, drawn and quartered!

Your response kinda proves the fact that you have no real response. You have no counterargument, just a poor attempt at dismissing the point.
  #423  
Old 14.08.2018, 17:50
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Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah

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Has anyone here read Boris' article, by the way? It's bizarre how a spirited defence of personal freedom has been interpreted as "islamophobia".

I can't stand the devious bastard, but fair's fair, eh?
Isnt it obvious?

Freedom of speech does not mean freedom from consequence.

He was not stopped saying what he did. He just now has to swallow the consequences.

Arguing that he should face no consequences because he said something is ridiculous, because it absolves him entirely of personal responsibility. He's a grown man, he needs to take responsibility for the stupid shit he says.
  #424  
Old 14.08.2018, 18:01
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Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah

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Isnt it obvious?

Freedom of speech does not mean freedom from consequence.

He was not stopped saying what he did. He just now has to swallow the consequences.

Arguing that he should face no consequences because he said something is ridiculous, because it absolves him entirely of personal responsibility. He's a grown man, he needs to take responsibility for the stupid shit he says.
So you didn't read it either?
  #425  
Old 14.08.2018, 19:11
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Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah

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... while Corbyn is castigated so vociferously for attending a remembrance ceremony that nobody is actually sure what happened at?
'Go right to the source and ask the horse
He'll give you the answer that you'll endorse.
He's always on a steady course.
Talk to Mr. Ed....errr...Corbyn!'

https://morningstaronline.co.uk/a-98...stine-united-1

Disclaimer: Please be aware that the article linked above, written by Corbyn himself, was removed from the Morning Star's website for a time today, but has since reappeared. (I'd love to see the code behind that piece )
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But when Corbyn attends a ceremony over a decade ago that was also attended by some other people that we now find unsavory, to place a wreath, well by jove, the man should obviously be hung, drawn and quartered!
4 years ago.

If the events were as he is accused of them being, he was at best careless, and should have been aware of the full scope of the proceedings as a member of parliament. He should have been very clear which parts of the event he would and would not participate in. Back in the days when I was called on to attend national trade union meetings that often had political side events, I always studied the timetable and was very definite on which I would attend, and that always included refusing to stand and sing 'The Red Flag'.

At worst, Corbyn is guilty as accused.

As someone with a clear memory of seeing the Israeli athletes being dragged out onto the balcony, if he was present at a wreath laid to their assassins' memories, it's unforgivable. If he was present but unwittingly so, it's downright stupidity on his part.

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Has anyone here read Boris' article, by the way? It's bizarre how a spirited defence of personal freedom has been interpreted as "islamophobia".

I can't stand the devious bastard, but fair's fair, eh?
No, it's not fair.

He pretty much made out that the UK aren't stupid enough to try and ban the burka like our European counterparts (dig at the EU there), then followed it by making fun of a tiny sector of British women by comparing then to inanimate objects and criminals.

This isn't an 'either or' between Bojo and Jezza. This is I wouldn't have either of them gift wrapped.
  #426  
Old 14.08.2018, 19:17
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Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah

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'Go right to the source and ask the horse
He'll give you the answer that you'll endorse.
He's always on a steady course.
Talk to Mr. Ed....errr...Corbyn!'

https://morningstaronline.co.uk/a-98...stine-united-1

Disclaimer: Please be aware that the article linked above, written by Corbyn himself, was removed from the Morning Star's website for a time today, but has since reappeared. (I'd love to see the code behind that piece )
4 years ago.

If the events were as he is accused of them being, he was at best careless, and should have been aware of the full scope of the proceedings as a member of parliament. He should have been very clear which parts of the event he would and would not participate in. Back in the days when I was called on to attend national trade union meetings that often had political side events, I always studied the timetable and was very definite on which I would attend, and that always included refusing to stand and sing 'The Red Flag'.

At worst, Corbyn is guilty as accused.

As someone with a clear memory of seeing the Israeli athletes being dragged out onto the balcony, if he was present at a wreath laid to their assassins' memories, it's unforgivable. If he was present but unwittingly so, it's downright stupidity on his part.

No, it's not fair.

He pretty much made out that the UK aren't stupid enough to try and ban the burka like our European counterparts (dig at the EU there), then followed it by making fun of a tiny sector of British women by comparing then to inanimate objects and criminals.

This isn't an 'either or' between Bojo and Jezza. This is I wouldn't have either of them gift wrapped.
You didn't read it either, then?
  #427  
Old 14.08.2018, 19:20
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Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah

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You didn't read it either, then?
Yes I did. And you can edit a quote ya know!
  #428  
Old 14.08.2018, 19:22
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Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah

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Yes I did. And you can edit a quote ya know!
You must have read a completely different article to the one I read, then.

Strange.
  #429  
Old 14.08.2018, 20:49
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Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah

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Has anyone here read Boris' article, by the way? It's bizarre how a spirited defence of personal freedom has been interpreted as "islamophobia".

I can't stand the devious bastard, but fair's fair, eh?
This is the remarkable thing, and the media, opposition and even members of his own party have fallen for it hook, line and sinker. It's pure political manoeuvring and was a very calculated move to enhance his position in the party in his upcoming grab at the leadership. Boris' opponents should be saying what a narcissistic, scheming shit he rather than focusing on a few words in a newspaper column.
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  #430  
Old 14.08.2018, 22:57
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Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah

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He pretty much made out that the UK aren't stupid enough to try and ban the burka like our European counterparts (dig at the EU there), then followed it by making fun of a tiny sector of British women by comparing then to inanimate objects and criminals.
Quite the contrary.
"Yes, the burka is oppressive and ridiculous – but that's still no reason to ban it." (BJ)

Occasionally even the political enemy is worth reading (including opening a free account).
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  #431  
Old 14.08.2018, 23:46
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Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah

I totally get that he wrote that there's no reason to ban it, but he then went on to ridicule the women who do wear it. That's the issue. He gives with one hand and takes with the other.

I can't begin to count the number of hours of news tv that has been devoted to that article, and I must have seen almost every possible take on the piece. Same with Corbyn and the anti semiticism row. Even seen a piece debating why Gove and Osborne went to the opera together last week, and how Cameron and Bojo are best buddies again, though Cameron won't have anything to do with Gove because he sees him as a back stabber. They're all a shower of purile little boys who need to say what they mean and set the record straight, or shut the eff up! And they want my vote? Not in this lifetime!
  #432  
Old 15.08.2018, 00:01
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Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes."
-Mark Twain

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Labour has hit out at what it said were “false and misleading” claims about Jeremy Corbyn’s visit to the Palestinian cemetery in Tunis and insisted he had attended an annual memorial for victims of an Israeli air attack on the Palestine Liberation Organisation headquarters in October 1985.

The party offered its most complete version of events yet about Corbyn’s controversial visit in 2014, and said the commemoration for the 74 people who had died was attended by “mainstream leaders”, including a Palestinian authority minister.

“None of those who carried out the Munich massacre are buried in the Palestinian cemetery at Tunis and there was no ceremony held for them,” a Labour spokesman said as the party tried to dampen the row generated by the trip.

Controversy about Corbyn’s trip to the Tunisian capital for a conference and to the Palestinian cemetery surfaced on Saturday, when it was reported he was present at an event when a wreath was laid by a grave of a PLO leader who was believed to be a mastermind of the Black September terror group.

The Labour leader reiterated on Tuesday that he was at the event in the cemetery only to commemorate victims of the airstrike. Expressing frustration, Corbyn said: “I laid one wreath along with many other people in memory of all those who died in the awful attack in 1985, which – I keep repeating and you seem not to understand – was condemned by the whole world.”

A Labour spokesman said: “Claims made about Jeremy Corbyn’s visit to the Palestinian national cemetery outside Tunis in 2014 have been both false and misleading. He attended a conference on Palestine in Tunis at the invitation of the Tunisian president with other European parliamentarians, including a Conservative and Liberal Democrat from the UK.”

The spokesman added that a delegation from the conference “went to commemorate and lay a wreath at the cemetery in memory of the dozens of Palestinians and Tunisians, including civilians, killed at the site by an Israeli air attack in 1985, condemned at the time by the UN”.
Source
  #433  
Old 15.08.2018, 00:02
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Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah

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I totally get that he wrote that there's no reason to ban it, but he then went on to ridicule the women who do wear it. That's the issue. He gives with one hand and takes with the other.

I can't begin to count the number of hours of news tv that has been devoted to that article, and I must have seen almost every possible take on the piece. Same with Corbyn and the anti semiticism row. Even seen a piece debating why Gove and Osborne went to the opera together last week, and how Cameron and Bojo are best buddies again, though Cameron won't have anything to do with Gove because he sees him as a back stabber. They're all a shower of purile little boys who need to say what they mean and set the record straight, or shut the eff up! And they want my vote? Not in this lifetime!
Perhaps you should watch less television.
  #434  
Old 15.08.2018, 00:23
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Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah

From the article Castro quoted...

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"The Labour leader reiterated on Tuesday that he was at the event in the cemetery only to commemorate victims of the airstrike. Expressing frustration, Corbyn said: “I laid one wreath along with many other people in memory of all those who died in the awful attack in 1985, which – I keep repeating and you seem not to understand – was condemned by the whole world.”
From the account Corbyn himself wrote at the time...

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After wreaths were laid at the graves of those who died on that day and on the graves of others killed by Mossad agents in Paris in 1991, we moved to the poignant statue in the main avenue of the coastal town of Ben Arous, which was festooned with Palestinian and Tunisian flags.
https://morningstaronline.co.uk/a-98...stine-united-1
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  #435  
Old 15.08.2018, 00:24
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Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah

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Perhaps you should watch less television.
Stop watching the news?
  #436  
Old 15.08.2018, 00:46
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Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah

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From the article Castro quoted...
Semantics are important here, did 'he' lay a wreath on the graves of the Munich terrorists? or was it, as he said part of the wider ceremonies for which he played no part?

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Asked about the incident during a visit to Walsall on Monday, Mr Corbyn said: "A wreath was indeed laid by some of those who attended conference to those that were killed in Paris in 1992.

"I was present when it was laid. I don't think I was actually involved in it [laying it].

"I was there because I wanted to see a fitting memorial to everyone who has died in every terrorist incident everywhere because we have to end it.
If he did lay a wreath on the graves of the leaders of Black September, then I would wholeheartedly condemn him.
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Old 15.08.2018, 00:48
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Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah

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Stop watching the news?
Yes. Television news is sensationalist crap.

I stopped watching it years ago. Instead I read, digest and think. Not everything I read is of a high quality, to be sure, but taking my time to process what I'm reading leads to a much better understanding of the world than I used to get after half an hour of breathless. Strangely punctuated. Blether off the television.
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  #438  
Old 15.08.2018, 01:20
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Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah

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Semantics are important here...
I absolutely agree that semantics are very important here. Just between us two, we have three versions of events, all of them in Corbyn's own words...

1. “I laid one wreath along with many other people in memory of all those who died in the awful attack in 1985, which – I keep repeating and you seem not to understand – was condemned by the whole world.”

2. "After wreaths were laid at the graves of those who died on that day and on the graves of others killed by Mossad agents in Paris in 1991,"

3. "A wreath was indeed laid by some of those who attended conference to those that were killed in Paris in 1992.

"I was present when it was laid. I don't think I was actually involved in it [laying it]."

I don't know which version to believe, and when one of them is so damning, I find that uncertainty disconcerting.

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Yes. Television news is sensationalist crap.
A lot of meaning is lost in the written word, unless you're a talented writer, plus I have a strong visual learning bias. I want to see the body language, and hear the tone and inflection of an interviewee's voice.

I think Gideon Falter handled himself very well this morning...

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Old 15.08.2018, 08:56
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Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah

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From the article Castro quoted...



From the account Corbyn himself wrote at the time...


https://morningstaronline.co.uk/a-98...stine-united-1
What this whole episode also shows is not only is Corbyn a hopeless terrorist sympathiser, but also a dishonest liar. That he changed his account is undeniable.

Anyway, it doesn't matter. Corbyn is a cult and his supporters will vote for him no matter what.

https://twitter.com/Jamin2g/status/1029448470028013570
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  #440  
Old 15.08.2018, 09:01
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Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah

'....He's won the nobel peace prize. Didn't he win the nobel peace prize last year...'
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