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Guest 17.11.2019 10:20

Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TonyClifton (Post 3121185)
A racist with a British Pakistani as chancellor, a British Indian as Home Secretary and a black man as chairman of his party. He also has a Brexit deal.

So? He’s still got a list as long as your arm of racist and xenophobic material over the years. You’re making him sound like the old racist bloke who says ‘I’m not racist, I know a couple of black people!’ and starts sentences with ‘I’m not being racist but...’

His Brexit deal is about as effective as mine at this stage. Microwaved or not. :msnsarcastic:

Funny that people are so quick to trivialise and bury BoJo’s racism but go all SJW over Corbyn.

Guest 17.11.2019 11:27

Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pashosh (Post 3121154)
Spare me your moralistic, politically correct comments. btw - Gypsies and Travellers are not the same thing. As for showman, well...



Sure, if you do the same. You don't appear to be able to debate without taking cheap shots. Interesting.

You're right. I mistyped. It's Showmen. I've taught a lot of them. That is the preferred term. Romany Gypsy yes.

Guest 17.11.2019 11:33

Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah
 
Quote:

Sure, if you do the same. You don't appear to be able to debate without taking cheap shots. Interesting.

You're right. I mistyped. It's Showmen. I've taught a lot of them. That is the preferred term. Romany Gypsy yes.
Also, the combined Roma/traveller population is greater than the Jewish population of the United Kingdom. I'm not sure how politically engaged the various communities are compared to their Jewish equivalents, but persecuting them never seemed to hurt the Tories' electoral chances in the eighties and nineties, which shows us how seriously British voters are likely to take antisemitism in the Labour party in 2019.

Pashosh 17.11.2019 11:34

Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah
 
Quote:

I did not write that. Is it necessary to lie to make your point, Pashosh?
You wrote "I would vote Labour, because the future of the United Kingdom is more important than the welfare of any special group."

Guest 17.11.2019 11:35

Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah
 
Yes, I know what I wrote, thank you.

Smh

Guest 17.11.2019 11:36

Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by chrissie7 (Post 3121172)
A cheap distraction? Is Corbyn/Labour immune to criticism just because you have an unhinged opinion of Boris/Tories. And what would be a deal breaker in your view?

Why is my opinion unhinged but yours is not? My political views can be just as strong as yours, can they not? You apparently see nothing wrong with the behaviour of our unelected PM. I do. It's as simple and as complicated as that.

I did not say Labour/Corbyn is immune, nor should they be. However, as awful as anti semitism undoubtedly is, for the last time, I do not think it is the biggest problem facing any party right now. It just isn't.

I've never voted Tory in my life. The whole party is therefore a "dealbreaker" to me.

greenmount 17.11.2019 12:01

Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by chrissie7 (Post 3121056)
That's a very offensive remark. I hope you don't really think that adultery (or duplicity or being a weasel) is worse than antisemitism.

I guess everyone can read whatever we want in someone's post after all? RufusB meant the situation is so dire that even an anti-semite would be a better choice when presented to the situation when having to choose the smaller evil.
Context is everything. I know that this type of very dark humour is not everyone's cup of tea, but to read it other than what it was meant to be...it looks rather intentional and an attempt to deflect the attention to somewhere else.

And how's anti-semitism worse than xenophobia btw?

greenmount 17.11.2019 12:12

Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TonyClifton (Post 3121185)
A racist with a British Pakistani as chancellor, a British Indian as Home Secretary and a black man as chairman of his party. He also has a Brexit deal.

You really think that this has nothing to do with attracting the votes from citizens of Pakistani/Indian origins?

Perhaps you, like pashosh, don't understand how politics works.

Guest 17.11.2019 12:16

Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by greenmount (Post 3121282)

And how's anti-semitism worse than xenophobia btw?

Two millennia of hatred, libel, oppression, expulsion and genocide. The English, for example, don't have a long, bloody history of persecuting Bulgarians and Greeks, but examples of their cruelty to Jews over a thousand years are many and shameful.

But none of that matters in politics. When it comes to the crunch, Jews - no matter how long their families have lived in Britain - are just another special interest group, and not a particularly big or important one. Most Brits aren't actively antisemitic, but hardly any would be that bothered by antisemitism. There's always a justification for turning a blind eye.

The imminent destruction of the United Kingdom as a consequence of an ill-prepared Brexit is a pretty big justification for doing what comes naturally anyway.

Tom1234 17.11.2019 12:41

Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah
 
Quote:


I did not say Labour/Corbyn is immune, nor should they be. However, as awful as anti semitism undoubtedly is, for the last time, I do not think it is the biggest problem facing any party right now. It just isn't.

.
It's not a problem a political party faces - it's a problem which Jewish people face.

greenmount 17.11.2019 12:45

Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah
 
Quote:

The imminent destruction of the United Kingdom as a consequence of an ill-prepared Brexit is a pretty big justification for doing what comes naturally anyway.
I understand. How on earth did the conservatives come up with Boris? What on earth did they think? Is the British electorate so bent on having Brexit delivered in any conditions and at any cost? I have the feeling that's not the case (anymore).

Tom1234 17.11.2019 12:59

Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by greenmount (Post 3121291)
I understand. How on earth did the conservatives come up with Boris?

Jacob Rees-Mogg wanted to do it but nanny said no.

Blueangel 17.11.2019 13:04

Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TonyClifton (Post 3121157)
This is an odd view point that I’ve increasingly read from left wing political commentators in recent weeks to try and justify voting for Corbyn’s Labour Party.

My sources supporting this point of view are entirely Conservative. Rather tellingly, these are just a few of them, so if you have issue with my claim, perhaps you would care to take them up with my sources in an effort to get them to concede and see the error of their beliefs.

'Sadly, the Conservative party has increasingly abandoned these principles and values with a shift to the right of British politics. We no longer feel we can remain in the party of a government whose policies and priorities are so firmly in the grip of the ERG and DUP.'
~ Anna Soubry, Sarah Wollaston and Heidi Allen.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47304424

“Perhaps most disappointingly, it has increasingly become infected with the twin diseases of populism and English nationalism.”
~ Dr. Phillip Lee
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/poli...-a4228151.html



greenmount 17.11.2019 13:07

Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom1234 (Post 3121297)
Jacob Rees-Mogg wanted to do it but nanny said no.

Not sure if that would have been a better alternative. :msnsick: I started to think that if I was a British I'd vote with the Labour too.

TonyClifton 17.11.2019 13:10

Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah
 
Quote:

So? He’s still got a list as long as your arm of racist and xenophobic material over the years. You’re making him sound like the old racist bloke who says ‘I’m not racist, I know a couple of black people!’ and starts sentences with ‘I’m not being racist but...’

His Brexit deal is about as effective as mine at this stage. Microwaved or not. :msnsarcastic:

Funny that people are so quick to trivialise and bury BoJo’s racism but go all SJW over Corbyn.
The two are simply not comparable and this “material” is simply being used by Labour’s supporters to deflect from their own tawdry behaviour. This is clear by the number of Labour MPs and members that have resigned over antisemitism within the party that isn’t reflected by resignations from the Conservative party. Also, neither the Conservative party nor Boris Johnson is being investigated by the Equality and Human Rights Commission as is the case with Labour.

chrissie7 17.11.2019 13:15

Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah
 
Quote:

Why is my opinion unhinged but yours is not? My political views can be just as strong as yours, can they not? You apparently see nothing wrong with the behaviour of our unelected PM. I do. It's as simple and as complicated as that.

I did not say Labour/Corbyn is immune, nor should they be. However, as awful as anti semitism undoubtedly is, for the last time, I do not think it is the biggest problem facing any party right now. It just isn't.

I've never voted Tory in my life. The whole party is therefore a "dealbreaker" to me.
Because you appear to take a very polarised, sectarian view - that anyone who does not have your views must be a Tory and therefore 'evil'. I haven't expressed an opinion about Boris' behaviour - I just said that your reaction to him was unhinged.

As it happens, I've never voted Tory in my life either, but I respect the fact that we live in a democracy and have the freedom to vote for whichever party we like. People's opinions are often contradictory and can change, just as political parties change.

The Labour party in its present incarnation does not deserve to win a single seat in the election, not just because of its entrenched antisemitism, but because it has never had a clear policy on Brexit and that will be its undoing.

marton 17.11.2019 13:27

Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TonyClifton (Post 3121304)
The two are simply not comparable and this “material” is simply being used by Labour’s supporters to deflect from their own tawdry behaviour. This is clear by the number of Labour MPs and members that have resigned over antisemitism within the party that isn’t reflected by resignations from the Conservative party. Also, neither the Conservative party nor Boris Johnson is being investigated by the Equality and Human Rights Commission as is the case with Labour.

Why would Conservatives resign over Labour antisemitism?

Boris Johnson is being investigated by the police over electoral fraud?

Guest 17.11.2019 13:27

Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TonyClifton (Post 3121304)
The two are simply not comparable and this “material” is simply being used by Labour’s supporters to deflect from their own tawdry behaviour. This is clear by the number of Labour MPs and members that have resigned over antisemitism within the party that isn’t reflected by resignations from the Conservative party. Also, neither the Conservative party nor Boris Johnson is being investigated by the Equality and Human Rights Commission as is the case with Labour.

Actually, whether or not you intended it, what you wrote there makes it 100% comparable. You are describing two sides of the same coin.

greenmount 17.11.2019 13:28

Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by chrissie7 (Post 3121306)
Because you appear to take a very polarised, sectarian view - that anyone who does not have your views must be a Tory and therefore 'evil'. I haven't expressed an opinion about Boris' behaviour - I just said that your reaction to him was unhinged.

As it happens, I've never voted Tory in my life either, but I respect the fact that we live in a democracy and have the freedom to vote for whichever party we like. People's opinions are often contradictory and can change, just as political parties change.

The Labour party in its present incarnation does not deserve to win a single seat in the election, not just because of its entrenched antisemitism, but because it has never had a clear policy on Brexit and that will be its undoing.

Forgive me for being blunt but....nah, I don't buy it. Often times, under the guise of impartiality people try desperately to manipulate and deflect the attention to somewhere else.
I came to appreciate more those who openly admit they voted for Leave and would agree even with a "no deal Brexit".

Voting with Labour doesn't necessarily make one a better person so to speak.

Guest 17.11.2019 13:34

Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by chrissie7 (Post 3121306)
Because you appear to take a very polarised, sectarian view - that anyone who does not have your views must be a Tory and therefore 'evil'. I haven't expressed an opinion about Boris' behaviour - I just said that your reaction to him was unhinged.

Ironically, the emotive phrasing in this paragraph sounds much closer to the definition of ‘unhinged’. I didn't read any of that kind of sentiment in RufusB’s posts. :confused:


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