Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Off-Topic > Off-Topic > International affairs/politics  
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #941  
Old 17.11.2019, 13:41
TonyClifton's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Zurich
Posts: 655
Groaned at 226 Times in 146 Posts
Thanked 1,483 Times in 727 Posts
TonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah

Quote:
View Post
You really think that this has nothing to do with attracting the votes from citizens of Pakistani/Indian origins?

Perhaps you, like pashosh, don't understand how politics works.
And was “politics” the only reason they held offices of state within the previous government too? It’s sad that you can’t look beyond tokenism, and also interesting how such discussions reveal peoples true opinions regarding race.
  #942  
Old 17.11.2019, 13:47
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah

Quote:
View Post
And was “politics” the only reason they held offices of state within the previous government too? It’s sad that you can’t look beyond tokenism, and also interesting how such discussions reveal peoples true opinions regarding race.
But it's ok when you do it, presumably...

Quote:
View Post
A racist with a British Pakistani as chancellor, a British Indian as Home Secretary and a black man as chairman of his party.
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
  #943  
Old 17.11.2019, 13:53
TonyClifton's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Zurich
Posts: 655
Groaned at 226 Times in 146 Posts
Thanked 1,483 Times in 727 Posts
TonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah

Quote:
View Post
My sources supporting this point of view are entirely Conservative. Rather tellingly, these are just a few of them, so if you have issue with my claim, perhaps you would care to take them up with my sources in an effort to get them to concede and see the error of their beliefs.

'Sadly, the Conservative party has increasingly abandoned these principles and values with a shift to the right of British politics. We no longer feel we can remain in the party of a government whose policies and priorities are so firmly in the grip of the ERG and DUP.'
~ Anna Soubry, Sarah Wollaston and Heidi Allen.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47304424

“Perhaps most disappointingly, it has increasingly become infected with the twin diseases of populism and English nationalism.”
~ Dr. Phillip Lee
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/poli...-a4228151.html


Are you able to provide a source that hasn’t left the party or had their whip removed over their stances on Brexit? It’s easy to claim that the party has “moves to the right” if one thinks it’ll win people over to ones cause. Brexit is not a Left/Right issue and this move to the right is not reflected in Boris Johnson’s policies (crime being the exception). And to think people have been accusing me of not understanding politics.
  #944  
Old 17.11.2019, 14:05
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 7,816
Groaned at 282 Times in 211 Posts
Thanked 17,394 Times in 6,119 Posts
k_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah

Quote:
View Post
And to think people have been accusing me of not understanding politics.
I don't think anyone on this forum is understanding politics. We are all laymen with an opinion.

Unless I'm wrong and we have (former) MPs, ministers, party leaders and CEOs among our members.
This user would like to thank k_and_e for this useful post:
  #945  
Old 17.11.2019, 14:16
Blueangel's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Küsnacht, Switzerland
Posts: 3,810
Groaned at 100 Times in 93 Posts
Thanked 10,379 Times in 4,605 Posts
Blueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah

Quote:
View Post
If Labour win, then a vote and either a soft Brexit (with our rights protected) or no Brexit (depending on the 2nd referendum) and a giant nationalisaion programme to re-build our assets.
At the Clause 5 Labour meeting last night, protection of FOM was firmly removed from the manifesto pledges, so it would be fair to say that a 'soft brexit' option has likely gone with it as FOM is one of the 4 freedoms.

Quote:
View Post
All the Labour-voting areas that voted for Brexit will go over to the Tories.
No. I don't believe they will. Where I come from (Wigan), that would be seen as a step too far with the BXP being a 'hafway house' between the two camps.
By contrast, in the constituency where my vote is registered (Windsor), there was a considerable Remain majority but the Tory MP is devoutly Leave and parrots the ERG line. Whereas the Wigan MP has supported Leave against her better judgement but out of respect for her electorate, the same cannot be said for Windsor's Tory MP, but in the 2017 GE, Lisa Nandy increased her share of the vote by 10% up to 62.2%. https://www.bbc.com/news/politics/co...cies/E14001039
  #946  
Old 17.11.2019, 14:29
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CH
Posts: 9,390
Groaned at 314 Times in 257 Posts
Thanked 13,422 Times in 6,970 Posts
greenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah

Quote:
View Post
The two are simply not comparable and this “material” is simply being used by Labour’s supporters to deflect from their own tawdry behaviour. This is clear by the number of Labour MPs and members that have resigned over antisemitism within the party that isn’t reflected by resignations from the Conservative party. Also, neither the Conservative party nor Boris Johnson is being investigated by the Equality and Human Rights Commission as is the case with Labour.
Yawn...all parties engage in a bit of racism/anti-semitism/xenophobia depending on whose votes they need to attract. Nobody cares that much.

Let's look at the conservatives: Cameron, May, Boris and all those pseudo-alternatives....do they look like a bunch of people who know what are they doing...lately?
Does Boris seem like a reasonable Brexiter to you? Is this the way you want UK to present itself to the EU or to the world in general? Either way, many British folks seem to disagree with you.
IMHO - better focus on what's more important now....
This user would like to thank greenmount for this useful post:
  #947  
Old 17.11.2019, 14:40
Blueangel's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Küsnacht, Switzerland
Posts: 3,810
Groaned at 100 Times in 93 Posts
Thanked 10,379 Times in 4,605 Posts
Blueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah

Quote:
Most Brits aren't actively antisemitic, but hardly any would be that bothered by antisemitism.
I strongly disagree with you on the latter part.
Quote:
View Post
And how's anti-semitism worse than xenophobia btw?
Xenophobia is a debilitating irrational fear of anything foreign and unfamiliar. It tends to be born of ignorance and lack of exposure. It's a sliding scale that can be as tiny as believing spaghetti can strangle your tonsils and choke you "because it's foreign", right up to the worst of racism. Xenophobes tend to be insular and can live out their days quite happily in their own little paranoid corner of the world without harming anyone. With increased exposure to other places and culturesm they have the capacity to change their minds.

Anti-semitism is also a sliding scale going from dislike, distrust stereotyping, all the way up to denying a group of people the right to exist. It's a targetted active belief, often acted upon in some way, and taken to the extreme, we all know where that can lead.
The following 3 users would like to thank Blueangel for this useful post:
  #948  
Old 17.11.2019, 14:59
Tom1234's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kanton Luzern
Posts: 14,903
Groaned at 467 Times in 373 Posts
Thanked 21,118 Times in 8,688 Posts
Tom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah

Quote:
View Post
I don't think anyone on this forum is understanding politics. We are all laymen with an opinion.

Unless I'm wrong and we have (former) MPs, ministers, party leaders and CEOs among our members.
In the U.K. at least, you don't need any formal qualifications or indeed expertise to become an MP.
  #949  
Old 17.11.2019, 15:01
Blueangel's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Küsnacht, Switzerland
Posts: 3,810
Groaned at 100 Times in 93 Posts
Thanked 10,379 Times in 4,605 Posts
Blueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah

Quote:
Are you able to provide a source that hasn’t left the party or had their whip removed over their stances on Brexit? It’s easy to claim that the party has “moves to the right” if one thinks it’ll win people over to ones cause.
https://twitter.com/tobias_ellwood/s...21860700180481
  #950  
Old 17.11.2019, 15:01
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CH
Posts: 9,390
Groaned at 314 Times in 257 Posts
Thanked 13,422 Times in 6,970 Posts
greenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah

@blueangel
It's hard to decide which one is the absolute lesser evil as both can lead to nasty things. But I agree with you, in principle. However, we don't live in a perfect world and many times need to ignore the less harmful sides of these phenomena. It's just how things are. I wonder though if the anti-semitism allegations against the Labour party are not a tricky way to distract people's attention from the awful deals that Boris et. co try to push forward.
The following 4 users would like to thank greenmount for this useful post:
  #951  
Old 17.11.2019, 15:03
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 7,816
Groaned at 282 Times in 211 Posts
Thanked 17,394 Times in 6,119 Posts
k_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah

Quote:
View Post
In the U.K. at least, you don't need any formal qualifications or indeed expertise to become an MP.
You need to work your way up in a highly political system. Managing to do so shows that you have the skills.
  #952  
Old 17.11.2019, 15:06
Tom1234's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kanton Luzern
Posts: 14,903
Groaned at 467 Times in 373 Posts
Thanked 21,118 Times in 8,688 Posts
Tom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah

Quote:
View Post
You need to work your way up in a highly political system. Managing to do so shows that you have the skills.
That's not what you wrote before though.

Having said that, there's a huge hurdle to jump from standing as a prospective MP to actually being elected as one.
  #953  
Old 17.11.2019, 15:40
Pashosh's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Baden
Posts: 464
Groaned at 209 Times in 155 Posts
Thanked 1,794 Times in 984 Posts
Pashosh is considered unworthyPashosh is considered unworthyPashosh is considered unworthy
Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah

Quote:
Yes, I know what I wrote, thank you.

Smh
So you would vote for a racist leader. QED.
  #954  
Old 17.11.2019, 15:53
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah

Quote:
View Post
So you would vote for a racist leader. QED.
Jeremy Corbyn isn't standing in my constituency.

You really have no idea what you're talking about, do you?

And why are you so obsessed with my personal voting preferences? You're beginning to sound a bit stalkerish.
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
  #955  
Old 17.11.2019, 15:55
Raffles's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: In the shadows of your mind.
Posts: 147
Groaned at 4 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 328 Times in 138 Posts
Raffles has a reputation beyond reputeRaffles has a reputation beyond reputeRaffles has a reputation beyond reputeRaffles has a reputation beyond reputeRaffles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah

Quote:
View Post
So you would vote for a racist leader. QED.
It's nothing to do with racism. Everyone of them twists and turns, and deals from the bottom. Whatever is advantageous for them at any given time, they see acceptable, racism does not come into it with the people, yes a great percentage of us are against racism in any form, though that's not what will affect anybody's vote. This is purely about taking the country forward Brexit or remain.
The following 3 users would like to thank Raffles for this useful post:
  #956  
Old 17.11.2019, 16:03
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah

Quote:
View Post
It's nothing to do with racism. Everyone of them twists and turns, and deals from the bottom. Whatever is advantageous for them at any given time, they see acceptable, racism does not come into it with the people, yes a great percentage of us are against racism in any form, though that's not what will affect anybody's vote. This is purely about taking the country forward Brexit or remain.
No, no, no! Because Pashosh has got family in the United Kingdom, we all have to vote purely based on how antisemitic the leader of the party is. Never mind about Brexit. Never mind about the collapse of the Union. Never mind about how much we like our local candidate.

No, we should all vote for the benefit of Pashosh's family.

The following 2 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #957  
Old 17.11.2019, 16:08
Raffles's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: In the shadows of your mind.
Posts: 147
Groaned at 4 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 328 Times in 138 Posts
Raffles has a reputation beyond reputeRaffles has a reputation beyond reputeRaffles has a reputation beyond reputeRaffles has a reputation beyond reputeRaffles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah

Quote:
No, no, no! Because Pashosh has got family in the United Kingdom, we all have to vote purely based on how antisemitic the leader of the party is. Never mind about Brexit. Never mind about the collapse of the Union. Never mind about how much we like our local candidate.

No, we should all vote for the benefit of Pashosh's family.

Yes. But you know and I know, that's got naff all to do with politics
The following 3 users would like to thank Raffles for this useful post:
  #958  
Old 17.11.2019, 16:10
Blueangel's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Küsnacht, Switzerland
Posts: 3,810
Groaned at 100 Times in 93 Posts
Thanked 10,379 Times in 4,605 Posts
Blueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah

Quote:
View Post
@blueangel
It's hard to decide which one is the absolute lesser evil as both can lead to nasty things. But I agree with you, in principle. However, we don't live in a perfect world and many times need to ignore the less harmful sides of these phenomena. It's just how things are.
It is.
Deep inside, we all have our little red lines and prejudices, but most of us constantly revise these based upon new experiences and information. It can be upsetting, exhausting and challenging, but if we can never admit to being wrong and move forward, we'll just stagnate and society will never progress. My politically 'right on' 17yr old self would have adamantly insisted that she could never date a South African, yet here I am 8yrs into living with a Saffa who I love more than life. He's amazed that I knew about Steve Biko at the time, and later about the work of Kevin Carter, and I'm amazed that his first albums were by Bob Marley and Rodriguez, bought on the black market of course, and taped by all his friends. I'm amazed that his father insisted that "we fight this evil from the inside out, and we will win". I'm amazed that his mother's first husband was a Jew who needed to be married to get passage out of Europe after the war.

For several years before I met my OH, my plus one for formal events was a gay Jewish friend and colleague. He's now engaged to a wonderful Muslim man. Individual people have incredible lives that break all taboos and prejudices, and there's no substitute for sitting down and talking to them.
Quote:
View Post
I wonder though if the anti-semitism allegations against the Labour party are not a tricky way to distract people's attention from the awful deals that Boris et. co try to push forward.
They're not, unfortunately.
The Labour Party of today isn't the same as it was a decade ago, and the same goes for the Tories. Personally, I blame a lot of it on 'entryism' between 2015 and now. Before that time, far left parties and their supporters were actively banned from being Labour Party members. This included people like the SWP who I've dealt with personally a number of times and despise because a lot of them are openly anti-semitic and violent. The Tories have the same issue with BNP and NF people joining UKIP then hiding their history (many with various name changes) and joining the Conservatives Party.

Back in early 2015, (and just from memory, so please excuse any errors) it was £25 to join the Conservative Party and £48(?) to join the Labour Party. During the 2015 Labour Leadership contest, the party introduced a £3 registered supporter category which was only avalailable for a few days but gave the supporter voting rights in the leadership ballot less than a month later. These applications were largely unchecked owing to time constraints, so there was a flood of new, unchecked voters flooding into the party and they gave Corbyn a very unexpected landslide victory. It wasn't until the campaign a year later, to get these £3 supporters to upgrade to the new £25 membership, that many of these people were checked.
The following 2 users would like to thank Blueangel for this useful post:
  #959  
Old 17.11.2019, 19:01
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah

Quote:
View Post
It's not a problem a political party faces - it's a problem which Jewish people face.
Tell that to this thread. It's all about anti-Semitism and Corbyn/Labour, if you'd believe a lot of posters.

But you're right in that it isn't currently a UK key political issue.

Stop attempting to move the goalposts or at least be less selective in the posts you read.
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
  #960  
Old 17.11.2019, 19:18
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah

Quote:
View Post
Because you appear to take a very polarised, sectarian view - that anyone who does not have your views must be a Tory and therefore 'evil'. I haven't expressed an opinion about Boris' behaviour - I just said that your reaction to him was unhinged.

As it happens, I've never voted Tory in my life either, but I respect the fact that we live in a democracy and have the freedom to vote for whichever party we like. People's opinions are often contradictory and can change, just as political parties change.

The Labour party in its present incarnation does not deserve to win a single seat in the election, not just because of its entrenched antisemitism, but because it has never had a clear policy on Brexit and that will be its undoing.
Then I'm afraid you need to re-read what I wrote and maybe dial the outrage down a notch. And I'm fairly certain you're using sectarian incorrectly. But hey ho.

Where have I made any comment about those who do not share my view? I don't even recall sharing my political views in full. Who the hell would be interested in that? I have said, many times, in different words, that I think Boris is dangerous and ill-equipped for the role of PM, a role he has clearly been slavering over for quite some time. That is an opinion to which i am entitled. It is an opinion which clearly twists your melon. That, to be frank, is far more your issue than mine.

I do not appreciate your implication that I have been disrespectful of others' - and by that I assume you really mean your - opinion. I may not agree with you but I certainly haven't stooped to casting aspersions about your views.

The very fact you have repeatedly called my opinion about Johnson "unhinged" speaks volumes about your personality, however.

Again, I find it interesting that you also cannot seem to focus on the debate and feel the need to insult the poster. You say that opinions are contradictory and yet you clearly have a problem with opinions that do not neatly line up behind yours. You still haven't answered my question btw. You just attempted to deflect.
The following 5 users would like to thank for this useful post:
Closed Thread




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Another great Jeremy Corbyn idea! Hausamsee International affairs/politics 93 04.09.2017 16:17
Corbyn Struts His Stuff! Merrylegs International affairs/politics 28 21.06.2017 12:47
SBB causes huge noise by doing night work and refuses to compensate inhabitants smalljimmy Complaints corner 4 29.09.2013 17:50
Hamas chief meets Swiss envoy in Cairo The Local Swiss news via The Local 0 19.01.2012 11:17
2 person rental agreement and other party refuses to sign termination piazza Housing in general 24 11.01.2012 18:01


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 00:38.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0