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Raffles 18.11.2019 20:30

Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by marton (Post 3121775)
Don't forget to mention Wigan Pier.

Glad I am too long away from the UK to vote; I really do not have a clue who I would vote for. Pity the Official Monster Raving Loony Party ain't around anymore.

That's just what I've been thinking.:rofl:

Guest 18.11.2019 20:33

Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by marton (Post 3121775)
Don't forget to mention Wigan Pier.

Glad I am too long away from the UK to vote; I really do not have a clue who I would vote for. Pity the Official Monster Raving Loony Party ain't around anymore.

Lord Bucket-Head has competition fromCount Binface. Would get my vote for the bantz... :D

Blueangel 18.11.2019 23:46

Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah
 
Quote:

I get you hate Corbyn and the horse he rode in on, but that seems, to my eyes, to have completely biased you against an entire party.
Not in the slightest. I desperately want Labour to regain their former standing and reputation, get rid of Corbyn and Momentum, and elect a new leader. If Labour had someone like Starmer as leader, you'd be looking at a landslide victory akin to '97. My personal preferences would be Yvette Cooper, Angela Eagle or Jess Phillips.

Quote:

I have grave concerns about Jo Swinson. She is essentially a career politician with very little experience doing anything else.
She's got more work experience outside of politics than Corbyn.

Quote:

She's a little too Tory for my liking. She also voted to raise uni tuition to 9K a year, which pisses me off as she was likely in the final year of the means-tested grant and free tuition academic year and with more favourable loan repayment terms.
With tuition fees, I can only wonder what would have happened if Labour had won the 2010 GE, as the Browne Report was commissioned by Labour, but we'll never know now and I refuse to have that issue used to beat LD up for ever more, especially when the Labour policy on Brexit threatens so much more damage. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeli...United_Kingdom

Of the 3 main party leaders, she's the only one who solely attended state schools. I have my reservations too, but still pick her over the other two. The thing is, LD are the best chance and recommended Remain option for my constituency. Labour are the recommended option in Wigan, despite Lisa Nandy voting for the 2nd reading of the WA.

DB keeps saying this election is mostly about Brexit. My issue with that is, if/when Lisa Nandy is returned, she will still be none the wiser about if the opinon on Brexit has shifted amongst her constituents. Wigan was 63.9% Leave. In the 2015 GE, Nandy got 52% of the vote. In 2017 she got 62% of the vote. Nandy's main opponent is the BXP candidate, not LD or Conservative.

Blueangel 18.11.2019 23:53

Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by marton (Post 3121775)
Pity the Official Monster Raving Loony Party ain't around anymore.

But they are!
https://www.omrlp.com/

And before anyone knocks them, this is an oldie but a goodie. 7 MRLP policies that are now UK Law! :D

https://www.mirror.co.uk/usvsth3m/7-...-party-5644717

greenmount 19.11.2019 00:43

Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TonyClifton (Post 3121604)
I’m sorry, but how am I to know that? I tried on numerous occasions to explain to the member the seriousness of what’s going on in the Labour Party yet “she” kept coming back to the point of Tories/Brexit/UKIP.

There’s another thread I’ve been following on the situation in Hong Kong (where I must say the level of discussion is significantly higher than here or on the Brexit thread), my knowledge on the situation is limited and it’s interesting to learn from other members who have experience from the region. I wouldn’t like to think I would make wild accusations about the local politics without prior knowledge. Sometimes it’s better to read, you never know, you may learn something.

p.s. regarding Ken Clarke, I disregard his views not because he is old, or retired, or was father of the house, simply due to his stance on Brexit. I’ll repeat, if you find a party member who hasn’t quit the party or had the whip removed over Brexit saying that the party is now far right then we can talk.

I think you are the one who needs to read all the comments here. I (and others too) got the seriousness of the situation in the Labour party and I just don't agree, based on other sources, that the party you are defending here is in a better position. Besides, most people commented along this line. Why do you think your experience and your opinions are more valid than the ones coming from other members? We kind of know each other here and I know whose opinions to trust.
I asked here, have read many things on my own, made some observations on my own. These discussions are very old.
Sorry, but please let's agree to disagree. This has nothing to do with me not being a native English speaker btw. We just have a different opinion. Or better said, you have a different opinion than most people here.
I can quote at least 4 EF members constantly arguing with you on each comment of yours. (my opinions are not even that important, I asked some questions and got very comprehensive answers, I think you are wrong about the level of the discussion)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blueangel (Post 3121851)
Not in the slightest. I desperately want Labour to regain their former standing and reputation, get rid of Corbyn and Momentum, and elect a new leader. If Labour had someone like Starmer as leader, you'd be looking at a landslide victory akin to '97. My personal preferences would be Yvette Cooper, Angela Eagle or Jess Phillips.
.

IMHO, if Corbyn had put the party first, he would have stepped out by now. It's sad he's dragging everyone else down.

Blueangel 19.11.2019 01:55

Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by greenmount (Post 3121861)
This has nothing to do with me not being a native English speaker btw.

Sorry for raising that point. It's just that I know plenty of native English speakers who don't write half as well as you do in their own language. ;)

greenmount 19.11.2019 09:07

Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Blueangel (Post 3121866)
Sorry for raising that point. It's just that I know plenty of native English speakers who don't write half as well as you do in their own language. ;)

You are too kind, Blueangel, thank you... But you were right: he was trying (again) to distract the attention from his beloved party. Everyone else here has pointed out the same things yet he chose to "corner" me..:) I know I take some risks when writing in a foreign language, on a "foreign" forum, but if I cared too much about these things I would have never moved abroad in the first place.

When confronted with questions like "Why do you think the Tories are dealing with the Brexit thing properly?" or "What do you think about NHS etc?" he keeps insisting on the anti-semitism in the Labour party as if this was the most urgent thing for the British citizens! Even I, an outsider, am worried about this never ending drama that was created exactly by the party he seems to value so much that he's willing to overlook all their mistakes and their inability to offer a solution. How could someone look the other way when Boris Johnson has made a fool of himself and of Great Britain on so many occasions lately? Weird. Many people in Europe (and not only) are watching the ongoing drama and shake their heads in disbelief. Usually I don't discuss with my OH these things, but he has once made this point - How can a country like UK have these politicians? What on earth has gotten into their political class? I know, some things weren't of interest to us or weren't visible to the rest of the world some time ago. But it is completely wrong to think that other people/countries don't care at all or they gloat over British people's misfortune.

Speaking of which, next year in February we'll go to Bristol to visit our friends. I don't dare to ask them now about these things, they're both too busy with their jobs and kid. If I know them at least half as much as I think I do, they'll probably vote with the Liberal Democrats or Labour. Both of them have good jobs in the private sector, so the myth that one must be poor or work in the public sector in order to vote with the Labour et co. is ridiculous, but I have seen some EFers often implying that (especially on the Brexit thread)...once you have an opinion on certain things/parties and express them here it's over, you can lose any comfort or "dignity":D. It's probably wiser to stick to those gratitude threads..:o

Guest 19.11.2019 09:11

Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah
 
I wouldn't mind so much if Tony Clifton were actually British! :D

Guest 19.11.2019 10:59

Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Blueangel (Post 3121851)
Not in the slightest. I desperately want Labour to regain their former standing and reputation, get rid of Corbyn and Momentum, and elect a new leader. If Labour had someone like Starmer as leader, you'd be looking at a landslide victory akin to '97. My personal preferences would be Yvette Cooper, Angela Eagle or Jess Phillips.

She's got more work experience outside of politics than Corbyn.

With tuition fees, I can only wonder what would have happened if Labour had won the 2010 GE, as the Browne Report was commissioned by Labour, but we'll never know now and I refuse to have that issue used to beat LD up for ever more, especially when the Labour policy on Brexit threatens so much more damage. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeli...United_Kingdom

Of the 3 main party leaders, she's the only one who solely attended state schools.

DB keeps saying this election is mostly about Brexit.


Jess Phillips would be wonderful but she terrifies the collective establishment scrotum by being forthright while in possession of breasts.

Jo Swinson did very little in "PR". That's not much in the line of work exp if you ask me.

I'm happy you refuse to have the tuition fee be an issue for forever more but you won't be directly affected, will you? It's an absolute disgrace what the Lib Dems did with that. If you have two kids who want to go to University you need, currently, around 54k before they eat anything, live somewhere or buy a textbook. And doctors, vets... that's even longer and worse debt.

Yep, state schools. And she still helped to crap all over affordable tertiary education after, as i said, likely benefitting herself from free tuition, a means tested grant and very favourable loan conditions.

The Dec GE is mostly about Brexit. To think otherwise is buying in to the smoke and mirrors brigade.

TonyClifton 19.11.2019 12:28

Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by greenmount (Post 3121861)
I think you are the one who needs to read all the comments here. I (and others too) got the seriousness of the situation in the Labour party and I just don't agree, based on other sources, that the party you are defending here is in a better position. Besides, most people commented along this line. Why do you think your experience and your opinions are more valid than the ones coming from other members? We kind of know each other here and I know whose opinions to trust.
I asked here, have read many things on my own, made some observations on my own. These discussions are very old.
Sorry, but please let's agree to disagree. This has nothing to do with me not being a native English speaker btw. We just have a different opinion. Or better said, you have a different opinion than most people here.
I can quote at least 4 EF members constantly arguing with you on each comment of yours. (my opinions are not even that important, I asked some questions and got very comprehensive answers, I think you are wrong about the level of the discussion)



IMHO, if Corbyn had put the party first, he would have stepped out by now. It's sad he's dragging everyone else down.

I never brought up your nationality or language, I have no idea who you are or where you are from. Your English is good enough for me to assume you are a native speaker.

In my limited experience, the opinions on this forum are not a good barometer for the wider public. Granted antisemitism isnít top of the list on most peopleís agenda, however that doesnít prevent it from being the single biggest smear against the Labour Party. Iím still shocked at how people on here have talked it down.

Finally, my opinions are of no more worth than the next persons. Iím sorry if I was too direct with you, but this is a very sensitive subject for me. I simply donít see the comparisons between the Tories handling of Brexit and the sickening antisemitism that has infected the Labour Party and their Sturmabteilung, Momentum. This topic is not related to that, and is of far greater importance.

Just last night there was yet another incident.

https://twitter.com/mishtal/status/1196498079681273857

Guest 19.11.2019 12:36

Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TonyClifton (Post 3121949)
, however that doesnít prevent it from being the single biggest smear against the Labour Party. Iím still shocked at how people on here have talked it down.

Finally, my opinions are of no more worth than the next persons. Iím sorry if I was too direct with you, but this is a very sensitive subject for me. I simply donít see the comparisons between the Tories handling of Brexit and the sickening antisemitism that has infected the Labour Party and their Sturmabteilung, Momentum. This topic is not related to that, and is of far greater importance.

It simply isn't.

People haven't said anti-Semitism is anything less than unspeakable. However is is you who is seemingly incapable of understanding the current British polticial climate.

And no, at the moment, in the UK, if you actually have spent any time at all there in recent times, there is nothing bigger than Brexit. Apart from the Prince Andrew chaos which, tbh, smacks of further easy distractions.

Blueangel 19.11.2019 12:41

Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by greenmount (Post 3121889)
If I know them at least half as much as I think I do, they'll probably vote with the Liberal Democrats or Labour. Both of them have good jobs in the private sector, so the myth that one must be poor or work in the public sector in order to vote with the Labour et co. is ridiculous...

You jammy beggar! I love Bristol. OH worked in Exeter for a few months back in 2011 and we spent a few great weekends in Bristol. Also, our favourite comedian, Russell Howard, comes from there.

You're right. You can never second guess someone's politics based upon background or occupation. If they sing the praises of Thangam Debbonaire, they're Labour. If the music for 'Oh Tannenbaum' comes on and they sing 'The Red Flag', they're Labour. :D

Quote:

Jess Phillips would be wonderful but she terrifies the collective establishment scrotum by being forthright while in possession of breasts.
I honestly think she'd be bloody brilliant. There's a thing in the HoC that I've heard and read repeatedly in interviews...apparently, you can judge an MP by how well they get along with Jess Phillips because the vast majority of MPs adore her (Anna Soubry's said it a number of times). That's a ringing endorsement if ever I heard one. As a person, I really identify with her, and I love it when she heckles and gets a little emotional delivering a speech in the House. That's exactly how I was addressing union meetings. It's nerve wracking stuff and you often have to be passionate about an issue to have the balls to stand up and say your bit in front of hundreds of people. She's got gumption and I bloody love it!

Pashosh 19.11.2019 13:39

Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah
 
The question in this thread is "Is it acceptable for a major party in the UK to have a racist leader".

I believe we got the answer.

Guest 19.11.2019 13:43

Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pashosh (Post 3121977)
The question in this thread is "Is it acceptable for a major party in the UK to have a racist leader".

I believe we got the answer.

Not sure if you are talking about Johnson or Corbyn, though? I guess it's both, though.

Pashosh 19.11.2019 14:03

Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah
 
Quote:

Not sure if you are talking about Johnson or Corbyn, though? I guess it's both, though.
If Johnson has worked for a genocidal media, supported racists (even convicted criminals), participated and spoke in Racist demonstrations and had minority MPs hounded out of his party - then yes. both.

For some reason only Labour is currently under investigation for institutional racism.

amogles 19.11.2019 14:04

Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pashosh (Post 3121977)
The question in this thread is "Is it acceptable for a major party in the UK to have a racist leader".

I believe we got the answer.

Quote:

Not sure if you are talking about Johnson or Corbyn, though? I guess it's both, though.
In other words, the question doesn't have a hard yes/no answer but it depends on who the leader is?

Guest 19.11.2019 14:08

Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by amogles (Post 3121987)
In other words, the question doesn't have a hard yes/no answer but it depends on who the leader is?

Nope. If that had been the case I would have started the sentence with "Depends..." ;)

I wasn't sure which leader he was talking about specifically as they are both racist, apparently.

Pashosh seems to be finding some types of racism completely acceptable, though, which is far more troubling.

Pashosh 19.11.2019 14:14

Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah
 
Quote:

Pashosh seems to be finding some types of racism completely acceptable, though, which is far more troubling.
Please point out racism in my posts.

Guest 19.11.2019 14:17

Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pashosh (Post 3121991)
Please point out racism in my posts.

You misunderstood my post.

Basically you seem only capable of seeing racism against Jews but you conveniently ignore or dismiss any other demonstrated by Boris Johnson.

Again, in most of the electorate's eyes in the UK, this doesn't seem to be making Johnson unelectable in the same way as it isn't make Corbyn unelectable. You seem fine with Johnson's attitude towards various races and minorities but not fine with Corbyn's.

It's called "double-standards".

Hope that helps.

Tom1234 19.11.2019 14:18

Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah
 
A lot of what Johnson has written and said and which is considered anti-islamic, sexist, racist and so on, he wrote in his capacity as a journalist and a columnist.

It may be wrong but it's what he did - in the same way Jeremy Clarkson did and does. It sells papers, magazines, and in Mr. Clarkson's case, made the BBC a lot of money.

I'm not condoning what Johnson has written - and some of the stuff he wrote years ago is pretty abhorrent now - but at the time suited the target audience, be it GQ or The Spectator.

But, as Pashosh wrote, it's not nearly the same as actively campaigning against a race of people.

I've never heard that Boris attended a National Front or other such rally in the past.


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