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Guest 19.11.2019 16:40

Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pashosh (Post 3122038)
Off topic: Are you sure ? any resources ?

Iíd read somewhere that in general slaves were often encouraged to convert to ownerís religion. This isnít exactly satisfactory, but here it is....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_views_on_slavery

From Wikipedia
Converting or circumcising non-Jewish slaves[edit]
The Talmudic laws required Jewish slave owners to try to convert non-Jewish slaves to Judaism.[4][obsolete source][81] Other laws required slaves, if not converted, to be circumcised and undergo ritual immersion in a bath (mikveh).[82][83] A 4th century Roman law prevented the circumcision of non-Jewish slaves, so the practice may have declined at that time,[84] but increased again after the 10th century.[85][obsolete source] Jewish slave owners were not permitted to drink wine that had been touched by an uncircumcised person so there was always a practical need, in addition to the legal requirement, to circumcise slaves.[86][obsolete source]

Although conversion to Judaism was a possibility for slaves, rabbinic authorities Maimonides and Karo discouraged it on the basis that Jews were not permitted (in their time) to proselytise;[62] slave owners could enter into special contracts by which they agree not to convert their slaves.[62] Furthermore, to convert a slave into Judaism without the owner's permission was seen as causing harm to the owner, on the basis that it would rob the owner of the slave's ability to work during the Sabbath, and it would prevent them from selling the slave to non-Jews.[62]

Blueangel 19.11.2019 16:56

Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pashosh (Post 3122038)
Off topic: Are you sure ? any resources ?

I'm absolutely sure! It was a big shock in my family because we didn't know he was Jewish until they got engaged and began talking about wedding plans. The evidence is 200+yrs of his family history. https://jewishcurrents.org/december-19-jews-of-jamaica/

Guest 19.11.2019 17:07

Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah
 
Judging from the US, while antisemitism is a very important issue to me, I know most people donít give a crap about it. I can imagine itís much the same in the UK. Itís not a hot button for the vast majority of people who donít know many Jews, people are far more concerned about the economy, health care, etc.

TonyClifton 19.11.2019 17:13

Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah
 
Quote:

You really need to work on your reading skills. You've got 'spin' down though. :rolleyes: I shall use small words.

No. I said that IMO Corbyn is better than Johnson. I do not like Johnson at all. Johnson is bad. Corbyn is less bad. I

I have said many times that anti-Semitism is vile. I agree with that. What you are persistently unable to understand is that antisemitism is not a hot political issue in the UK.

The rest of it is your desperate spin because you clearly have no other points to make so try and twist words and meanings instead.
I've looked back and found what you said now, "We've currently got duplicitous adulterous weasel scum as PM. An antisemite would be a step up, tbf."

I'm not spinning anything, in what you've written, there is no mistaking that you have said adultery and duplicity is worse than antisemitism. There was no reference to "the political issues" in the UK. If anything, this is the spin you've subsequently written to detract from what is still an appalling thing to say.

Perhaps you weren't thinking when you wrote it, or maybe it was merely a mistake. We all make them, as it is though it's deeply objectionable.

Guest 19.11.2019 17:28

Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TonyClifton (Post 3122074)
I've looked back and found what you said now, "We've currently got duplicitous adulterous weasel scum as PM. An antisemite would be a step up, tbf."

I'm not spinning anything, in what you've written, there is no mistaking that you have said adultery and duplicity is worse than antisemitism. There was no reference to "the political issues" in the UK. If anything, this is the spin you've subsequently written to detract from what is still an appalling thing to say.

Perhaps you weren't thinking when you wrote it, or maybe it was merely a mistake. We all make them, as it is though it's deeply objectionable.

Asked and answered I think you'll find, Chrissie7 tried the same fingerpointing tactic.

I've made plenty of references to UK politics: my point, ultimately is that I think anything is better than Johnson as PM, up to and including the mouldy bit of lactofree cheese I found in the salad drawer of my fridge this morning. So no, no mistake. I meant it. But I did not simultaneously say it as a ringing endorsement of anti-Semitism. Most other folk responding to this thread seem to understand that.

You are clutching at straws and are determined to score points that add nothing to the debate but presumably make your big boy pants feel just that smidgeon tighter.

Have at it.

Guest 19.11.2019 17:37

Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah
 
Quote:

Judging from the US, while antisemitism is a very important issue to me, I know most people donít give a crap about it. I can imagine itís much the same in the UK. Itís not a hot button for the vast majority of people who donít know many Jews, people are far more concerned about the economy, health care, etc.
Exactly this^^^

Jewish people in Britain are a very small, very white and very well behaved minority. They are practically invisible, except to white supremacists and people with a special interest. Unless you live in North London or Manchester, it's perfectly possible to live your entire life without ever meeting - or being aware of having met - a Jewish person.

Of course, most normal people tut-tut at the notion of antisemitism. They are horrified at the thought of the Holocaust - but, of course, that was those monstrous Germans - and dutifully mutter "Never Again" after watching Schindler's List. But, well, aren't the Israelis beastly to the Palestinians, and don't they control all the banks, and isn't that Michael Howard a bit like a vampire?

At the end of the day, Jewish people are mostly an abstraction, a notional "victim" people, special in their own way, but ultimately totally politically expendible simply because, in terms of influence, they are simply not important enough in British affairs.

Sucks for Pashosh's imaginary family, but that's the reality.

So it goes.

greenmount 19.11.2019 18:25

Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah
 
I have the feeling that not even those who pretended that anti-semitism is a deal breaker are that concerned at the end of the day, they just use it to promote their favourite party. Sad but true, I think it's only a political weapon.

Guest 19.11.2019 18:51

Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by greenmount (Post 3122095)
I have the feeling that not even those who pretended that anti-semitism is a deal breaker are that concerned at the end of the day, they just use it to promote their favourite party. Sad but true, I think it's only a political weapon.

I think thatís why itís hard to take the faux sincerity from Corbynís opponents too seriously. Johnson et al couldnít give a shiny shite about Israel or Jews or anything remotely linked but it helps him win cheap political points. Heíd be stupid NOT to do it, to be fair. Heís got precious little else in his election shop window that stands up to more than a nanosecondís scrutiny.

TonyClifton 19.11.2019 20:49

Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah
 
Quote:

Asked and answered I think you'll find, Chrissie7 tried the same fingerpointing tactic.

I've made plenty of references to UK politics: my point, ultimately is that I think anything is better than Johnson as PM, up to and including the mouldy bit of lactofree cheese I found in the salad drawer of my fridge this morning. So no, no mistake. I meant it. But I did not simultaneously say it as a ringing endorsement of anti-Semitism. Most other folk responding to this thread seem to understand that.

You are clutching at straws and are determined to score points that add nothing to the debate but presumably make your big boy pants feel just that smidgeon tighter.

Have at it.
Nevermind a lactofree cheese, up to and including an antisemite is fine in your opinion. The Labour Party is full of people rationalising their choices for the greater good. The reasoning behind your deniability makes you a perfect fit for Jeremy Corbynís party.

Guest 19.11.2019 20:58

Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TonyClifton (Post 3122124)
Nevermind a lactofree cheese, up to and including an antisemite is fine in your opinion. The Labour Party is full of people rationalising their choices for the greater good. The reasoning behind your deniability makes you a perfect fit for Jeremy Corbynís party.

In your opinion. :msnnerd:

TonyClifton 26.11.2019 11:57

Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah
 
The comments by the Chief Rabbi in today’s Times are a timely reminder that a vote for Labour is a vote condoning antisemitism. A very sad situation.

Guest 26.11.2019 12:09

Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TonyClifton (Post 3124170)
The comments by the Chief Rabbi in today’s Times are a timely reminder that a vote for Labour is a vote condoning antisemitism. A very sad situation.

Are you going to post the text as it's behind a paywall? The first three paragraphs are light on facts and heavy on rant and opinion.. TIA.

For someone who rails against "emotion" in political opinion, ironically, you picked a corker in that article.

Guest 26.11.2019 12:24

Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah
 
I don't know if this is helpful, but BBC is not behind a paywall.

https://www.bbc.com/news/election-2019-50552068

Guest 26.11.2019 12:24

Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Rabbi
The overwhelming majority of British Jews are gripped by anxiety. The question I am most frequently asked is: What will become of Jews and Judaism in Britain if the Labour Party forms the next government?

The Jewish community has... learned the hard way that speaking out means that we will be demonised... and accused of being partisan or acting in bad faith by those who still think of this as an orchestrated political smear. Yet, I ask myself: should the victims of racism be silenced by the fear of yet further vilification?

The way in which the leadership of the Labour Party has dealt with anti-Jewish racism is incompatible with the British values of which we are so proud. It has left many decent Labour members and parliamentarians, both Jewish and non-Jewish, ashamed.

It is a failure to see this as a human problem rather than a political one. It is a failure of leadership. A new poison Ė sanctioned from the very top Ė has taken root in the Labour Party.

Many members of the Jewish community can hardly believe this is the same party that they proudly called their political home for more than a century.

How complicit in prejudice would a leader of Her Majesty's opposition have to be in order to be considered unfit for high office? Would associations with those who have openly incited hatred against Jews be enough? Would describing as 'friends' those who endorse and even perpetrate the murder of Jews be enough? It seems not. What we do know from history is that what starts with the Jews, never ends with the Jews.

It is not my place to tell any person how they should vote. I simply pose the following question: What will the result of this election say about the moral compass of our country? I ask every person to vote with their conscience. Be in no doubt Ė the very soul of our nation is at stake.

There you go.

omtatsat 26.11.2019 14:45

Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Castro (Post 2582472)
A deeply unpleasant man who won two terms as London Mayor? For the three years I worked in town I would frequently see him get on the tube at Kilburn, interacting warmly with fellow passengers of all races and religions. That says more to me than lurid headlines and whipped up media frenzy.

That was all pre-arranged. Are you blind?

FCBarca 26.11.2019 14:57

Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah
 
Before embarking on or perpetuating a witch hunt helps to have some balance & perspective

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EJ6ehRGX...jpg&name=small

https://twitter.com/Craft_D/status/1...637925376?s=20


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EJ6jjsfX...jpg&name=small

greenmount 26.11.2019 15:00

Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by FCBarca (Post 3124226)
Before embarking on or perpetuating a witch hunt helps to have some balance & perspective

Post-truth era.

'nough said.

Pashosh 26.11.2019 15:15

Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by greenmount (Post 3124228)
Post-truth era.

'nough said.

Absolutley- ignoring the unpleasant facts about Corbyn's actions and nasty friends (hint: thread title) by posting irrelevant memes.

Corbyn makes Trump (nevermind johnson) look like a paragon of virtue.

Blueangel 26.11.2019 15:37

Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by FCBarca (Post 3124226)
Before embarking on or perpetuating a witch hunt helps to have some balance & perspective

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EJ6ehRGX...jpg&name=smallhttps://twitter.com/Craft_D/status/1...637925376?s=20

And this from Jonathan Lis https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...ive-government

Quote:

I’m Jewish and I’m voting Labour in the general election. Here’s why
I won't defend Corbyn for many reasons, but by the same measure, it isn't my place to tell people how tackle the moral minefield they find themselves in.

greenmount 26.11.2019 15:45

Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Blueangel (Post 3124238)
I won't defend Corbyn for many reasons, but by the same measure, it isn't my place to tell people how tackle the moral minefield they find themselves in.

At the end of the day, it doesn't even really matter if he's an anti-semite or not (judging by his biography, he seems like the last person to be one). He should have stepped down, seriously. He's not serving anyone's interests, neither his, nor his party's.


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