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Guest 26.11.2019 20:49

Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom1234 (Post 3124364)
All the Corbyn fan-boys living in Switzerland - bunch of hypocrites, the lot of you.

Pathetic.

Not sure how that constitutes hypocrisy but the main thrust of the thread is dissecting the fire-breathing ‘believe-anything-the-Tory-cheering-tabloids-feed-you’ from the ‘Is that REALLY all true and why do you think the UK voters are prioritising a Corbyn smear campaign over the Labour manifesto?’

I’m not even a fan of Corbyn but just question the fact-lite shrieking and wonder if there’s an agenda to smearing the Labour party to make the Tories shoddy bid for an election win look good :dunno:

chrissie7 26.11.2019 20:54

Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by roegner (Post 3124268)
Agree. But what has been proven that he is one? Did he say so?

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, then the probability is that it is a duck. The evidence is overwhelming - just do some research.

Guest 26.11.2019 21:04

Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by chrissie7 (Post 3124375)
If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, then the probability is that it is a duck. The evidence is overwhelming - just do some research.

Can we use that ham-fisted judgement for all the politicians round the world currently treating their elected office as their own personal, law-bending playground/bank/knocking shop?

Blueangel 26.11.2019 21:22

Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by greenmount (Post 3124243)
At the end of the day, it doesn't even really matter if he's an anti-semite or not (judging by his biography, he seems like the last person to be one). He should have stepped down, seriously. He's not serving anyone's interests, neither his, nor his party's.

Absolutely agree with you.
Personally, I believe he should have stood down in 2016 or 2017, but he resisted many strong calls for him to do so. Vanity? Stubborness? Who knows...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pashosh (Post 3124246)
which minefield ?

87% of jews in the UK think Corbyn is an antisemite. The rest write for the Guardian.

I was talking to a close Jewish friend at the weekend, close as in I flew back to the UK last year for his birthday. He's voting Labour. He's Type1 diabetic, a former ICU nurse and was on the nursing bank until his health deteriorated 10yrs ago. His priorities are the NHS and staying in the EU, and they override his concerns about Corbyn.

As the son of Russian Jewish immigrants, with a large Jewish family in Manchester, he's agonised over his decision, but he can vote against Labour in Manchester and be faced with life-threatening insulin shortages and NHS staff shortages, or he can hold his nose and vote Labour because Corbyn won't be around forever.

TonyClifton 26.11.2019 21:52

Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah
 
If you're in any doubt just watch Andrew Neil's interview with Corbyn from today. Listen to his answers, if he isn't an antisemite, then he's done such a terrible job of managing antisemitism within his party that he should not be let anywhere near to Number 10.

MidfieldGeneral 27.11.2019 06:13

Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom1234 (Post 3124364)
All the Corbyn fan-boys living in Switzerland - bunch of hypocrites, the lot of you.

Pathetic.

Who is this directed at and what is hypocritical?

MidfieldGeneral 27.11.2019 06:17

Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TonyClifton (Post 3124392)
If you're in any doubt just watch Andrew Neil's interview with Corbyn from today. Listen to his answers, if he isn't an antisemite, then he's done such a terrible job of managing antisemitism within his party that he should not be let anywhere near to Number 10.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrissie7 (Post 3124375)
If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, then the probability is that it is a duck. The evidence is overwhelming - just do some research.

Please give us some examples. Thanks.

TonyClifton 27.11.2019 07:06

Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah
 
Quote:

Not sure how that constitutes hypocrisy but the main thrust of the thread is dissecting the fire-breathing ‘believe-anything-the-Tory-cheering-tabloids-feed-you’ from the ‘Is that REALLY all true and why do you think the UK voters are prioritising a Corbyn smear campaign over the Labour manifesto?’

I’m not even a fan of Corbyn but just question the fact-lite shrieking and wonder if there’s an agenda to smearing the Labour party to make the Tories shoddy bid for an election win look good :dunno:
Jeremy Corbyn has managed a clean sweep newspaper of front pages in the UK this morning following his dreadful performance and his failure to apologies for his handling of antisemitism within his party. Not sure how with any seriousness you can blame the the Tory cheering press.

https://news.sky.com/story/wednesday...pages-11871150

Guest 27.11.2019 07:24

Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TonyClifton (Post 3124438)
Jeremy Corbyn has managed a clean sweep newspaper of front pages in the UK this morning following his dreadful performance and his failure to apologies for his handling of antisemitism within his party. Not sure how with any seriousness you can blame the the Tory cheering press.

https://news.sky.com/story/wednesday...pages-11871150

My many talents don’t stretch to clairvoyancy, unfortunately. Yesterday I could only write about what was in the papers yesterday, not what would appear in them today.:msnsarcastic:

Although, having scrolled through your link I have ask if you are blind? The front pages are full of Corbyn.

greenmount 27.11.2019 08:09

Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Blueangel (Post 3124379)
Absolutely agree with you.
Personally, I believe he should have stood down in 2016 or 2017, but he resisted many strong calls for him to do so. Vanity? Stubborness? Who knows...
.

Both, and then some more, probably. So called thirst for power. I think we can agree that clinging to power at any price does not leave a good impression on anyone and says many things about the character.
You need to know when your presence is doing more harm than good, especially considering that you were in power for so much time. The world will not collapse if other people, younger or maybe with fresh or better ideas, more likeable as persons would step in. Nobody is irreplaceable. It takes a lot of courage and noblesse, not weakness as they all perceive it, to know and act on this. But hey ho. Some people..
What do they say - power (funnily enough at all levels, I have noticed) is an aphrodisiac...

Tom1234 27.11.2019 08:51

Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TonyClifton (Post 3124438)
Jeremy Corbyn has managed a clean sweep newspaper of front pages in the UK this morning following his dreadful performance and his failure to apologies for his handling of antisemitism within his party. Not sure how with any seriousness you can blame the the Tory cheering press.

'Clean sweep', when used in this context means a complete victory across the board. That is not the case with Corbyn in the papers this morning who indeed has coverage in all papers but not in a good way.

chrissie7 27.11.2019 10:04

Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MidfieldGeneral (Post 3124435)
Please give us some examples. Thanks.

No. You're quite capable of finding the examples yourself - it's really not that difficult.

MidfieldGeneral 27.11.2019 10:13

Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by chrissie7 (Post 3124469)
No. You're quite capable of finding the examples yourself - it's really not that difficult.

No, you are making the accusations, if you have proof or links then show them - it's really not that difficult

Guest 27.11.2019 10:18

Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MidfieldGeneral (Post 3124472)
No, you are making the accusations, if you have proof or links then show them - it's really not that difficult

Ironically, that seems to be how it's being played out in the media. Wall to wall shouty accusations and emotional interviews by all sorts coming out of the woodwork then any challenges are met with rather a vapid "Oh but the EVIDENCE is EVERYWHERE!!" but not much in the way of actual substance.

me.anon 27.11.2019 10:22

Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah
 
Quote:


Quote:

The overwhelming majority of British Jews are gripped by anxiety. The question I am most frequently asked is: What will become of Jews and Judaism in Britain if the Labour Party forms the next government?

The Jewish community has... learned the hard way that speaking out means that we will be demonised... and accused of being partisan or acting in bad faith by those who still think of this as an orchestrated political smear. Yet, I ask myself: should the victims of racism be silenced by the fear of yet further vilification?

The way in which the leadership of the Labour Party has dealt with anti-Jewish racism is incompatible with the British values of which we are so proud. It has left many decent Labour members and parliamentarians, both Jewish and non-Jewish, ashamed.

It is a failure to see this as a human problem rather than a political one. It is a failure of leadership. A new poison – sanctioned from the very top – has taken root in the Labour Party.

Many members of the Jewish community can hardly believe this is the same party that they proudly called their political home for more than a century.

How complicit in prejudice would a leader of Her Majesty's opposition have to be in order to be considered unfit for high office? Would associations with those who have openly incited hatred against Jews be enough? Would describing as 'friends' those who endorse and even perpetrate the murder of Jews be enough? It seems not. What we do know from history is that what starts with the Jews, never ends with the Jews.

It is not my place to tell any person how they should vote. I simply pose the following question: What will the result of this election say about the moral compass of our country? I ask every person to vote with their conscience. Be in no doubt – the very soul of our nation is at stake.
There you go.
It is a pity that this he [Ephraim Mirvis] did not put more effort into addressing the issue between genuine antisemitism e.g. smashing headstones or painting swastikas in a Jewish cemetery and fake antisemitism, that is bogus claims of antisemitism for political purposes such as stifling legitimate criticism of Israel (e.g. theft of Palestinian land).

He has used the term "anti-Jewish racism" but has he has to be aware that the Jewish state also practices overt racism and is accused (rightly or wrongly) of being apartheid. If his foray into politics (which anyway for a religious leader is ill advised) is to be credible, he has to present a balanced view. It also is in the nature of politics that people have to "associate" with all sorts of distasteful peers without necessarily implying blanket approval of all their viewpoints and actions.

But clearly the definition of antisemitism is very flexible and can be adapted as required, so it is necessary be very clear about the concrete actions and evidence thereof which have led to the accusations.

Guest 27.11.2019 11:02

Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by chrissie7 (Post 3124375)
If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, then the probability is that it is a duck. The evidence is overwhelming - just do some research.

By which I assume you mean "google for articles supporting your view".

It's a ridiculous thing to say, and just looks like what it is - an attempt to bolster your argument by suggesting that lack of supplied evidence to the contrary proves your point. Hint: it doesn't work.

Ato 27.11.2019 11:16

Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah
 
Quote:

By which I assume you mean "google for articles supporting your view".

It's a ridiculous thing to say, and just looks like what it is - an attempt to bolster your argument by suggesting that lack of supplied evidence to the contrary proves your point. Hint: it doesn't work.
Despite the development of ever more powerful telescopes, nobody has yet been able to conclusively state that there is not a teapot orbiting the sun somewhere between the orbits of earth and mars. Therefore, Corbyn is obviously an anti-semite.

Or FC-Barca's post #1056 list shows otherwise.

TonyClifton 27.11.2019 11:36

Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MidfieldGeneral (Post 3124435)
Please give us some examples. Thanks.

The very first indication is that the Chief Rabbi is so concerned that he has seen fit to advise people not to vote for Corbyn. This should have alarm bells ringing as this is normally an apolitical role. Yet he feels compelled to ask people not to vote for Labour.

As for Jeremy Corbyn himself, he has kept the company of Holocaust deniers. He has attended and given speeches at numerous rallies where the Star of David is likened to a Swastika. He has laid wreaths at the graves of those responsible for the Munich massacre. He has called Hamas and Hezbollah his friends. An MP of his says Israelis should be relocated to the US and only receives a short suspension from the party. His failure to adopt the IHRA definition of antisemitism.

Mr Corbyn’s defence of people who have made anti-Semitic tropes. The fact he queried the removal by a Tower Hamlets Council of an anti-Semitic mural, and then sent a message of support to the “artist” that made it. The snails paces with which anti-Semitic complaints are dealt with in the Labour party, and then the subsequent outcomes. The 1000 antisemitic incidents within the Labour Party that have been submitted to the EHRC, together with the 15,000 pages of online anti-Semitic remarks made by Labour Party memebers that has been submitted as evidence.

And there is so much more, but it would take a week to write it all down. It’s all there though online, Google it, there’s thousands of pages to see. Wikipedia even has an article devoted to it. Only yesterday Jeremy Cobyn was sharing a stage with prospective MPs who have made anti-Semitic slurs online. You may question individual incidents, but the sheer amount of evidence taken together paints a picture that is damning.

The very best possible argument one could make for him is that he has a willful ignorance of the anti-Semitic problem within the Labour party. That he didn’t apologise yesterday when given the opportunity shows he certainly doesn’t get its seriousness. In any case he is guilty of such a simplistic world view that he should never be allowed to become PM.

The far more likely conclusion however is that either Jeremy Corbyn is sympathetic towards anti-Semitic views or in the worst case, he shares them. I believe it is the latter.

Guest 27.11.2019 12:12

Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ato (Post 3124510)
Despite the development of ever more powerful telescopes, nobody has yet been able to conclusively state that there is not a teapot orbiting the sun somewhere between the orbits of earth and mars.

Is there a body of evidence to support its existence? Only if there were would some sort of counter-evidence be called for. Making unfounded claims backed up by lack of evidence to the contrary is not what appears to be going on here.

greenmount 27.11.2019 12:34

Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TonyClifton (Post 3124524)
Mr Corbyn’s defence of people who have made anti-Semitic tropes. The fact he queried the removal by a Tower Hamlets Council of an anti-Semitic mural, and then sent a message of support to the “artist” that made it. The snails paces with which anti-Semitic complaints are dealt with in the Labour party, and then the subsequent outcomes. The 1000 antisemitic incidents within the Labour Party that have been submitted to the EHRC, together with the 15,000 pages of online anti-Semitic remarks made by Labour Party memebers that has been submitted as evidence.
.

Online anti-semitic remarks? That's all you got?

Where are those? Links? It seems neatly put, the numbers are round, yet the actual evidence is missing.

Who or what are you quoting now?


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