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-   -   Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah (https://www.englishforum.ch/international-affairs-politics/253598-jeremy-corbyn-refuses-denounce-terrorist-friends-hamas-hezbollah.html)

st2lemans 29.11.2019 11:18

Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah
 
Quote:

Midlands. With an s. HTH.
Oh, Olten and such, i.e. the flat bit up north.

Gotcha.

Tom

Blueangel 29.11.2019 11:35

Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by st2lemans (Post 3125313)
Midland is in Texas, I was there for a job interview back in '82, which included going to the local strip joint for some beers. :eek:

Tom

I've heard similar from my Canadian cousin. He's always said that going to a strip joint for a beer is a normal part of life. In the UK, that would be a bit weird.

Guest 29.11.2019 11:40

Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by st2lemans (Post 3125326)
Oh, Olten and such, i.e. the flat bit up north.

Gotcha.

Tom

Very nearly, yes Tom.

amogles 29.11.2019 13:15

Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Blueangel (Post 3125333)
I've heard similar from my Canadian cousin. He's always said that going to a strip joint for a beer is a normal part of life. In the UK, that would be a bit weird.

Happens in Switzerland too.

There used to be a place near the Alte Börse in Zürich, Insiders I think it was called. It's been closed many years now. During the daytime and until about 10pm or so it was just a normal cafe / bar where you could go for a coffee or a beer or whatever. Only the decoration was a bit wierd, fluffy velvet wallpaper and the like, but this being Zürich where you can encounter more outrageous things than that, I never thought much of it. I used to go there with friends on and off without suspecting anything until one day we stayed on a little longer and the staff flipped around some movable walls and things and dimmed the lights out came the stage and the girls dancing on it.

amogles 29.11.2019 13:25

Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by marton (Post 3125200)
This is an internet forum so everybody is entitled to post their opinion.

The problem comes when people post their opinions in such a form that it appears they are quoting facts.
In this case, it is useful when people quote the source of their posts.

Proposing that people who read your posts should do google searches to check their content could be interpreted as either lazy or arrogant. Of course, that is just my opinion so you are free to ignore me.

In post 24794 you described me as a fanatic. I am happy to read you have "certainly" avoided making jibes and personal insults; you need to improve your avoidance process.

It is very easy to put down any argument or stifle any discussion by demanding the other person prove something, and if they do prove it, to dispute that proof or to nitpick details and demand those be proven too, and to keep on doing that ad infinitum - while at the same time not applying the same critical rigidity to one's own sources.

We are not in a court of law. We are trying to discuss matters and exchange opinions in a civilized and respectful manner. Of course there are times when it may be necessary to clarify sources, but if that is being done tactically just to clutter, derail and prevent a discussion, that in my opinion is simply bad sport.

In my view at least, if somebody demands proof for something that is well known, obvious, or irrelevant, that says more about the person than the discussion at hand, and is pretty much akin to admitting they have no better arguments.

Blueangel 29.11.2019 13:47

Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by amogles (Post 3125373)
It is very easy to put down any argument or stifle any discussion by demanding the other person prove something, and if they do prove it, to dispute that proof or to nitpick details and demand those be proven too, and to keep on doing that ad infinitum - while at the same time not applying the same critical rigidity to one's own sources.

I suspect a lot of us go to fair deal of depth to find either a neutral legitimate source or a cross section of sources which are saying the same thing. I could chuck parliamentary papers on numerous subjects into the debate all day long, but who's going to take the time to read them over a bite sized opinion piece?

What isn't absolutely factual is opinion, anecdotal, spin or propaganda. Personally, I abhor deliberate lies and don't tolerate liars because of the wilful damage that they cause. We need truth not deliberate attempts to mislead.

Blueangel 29.11.2019 13:54

Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by amogles (Post 3125373)
In my view at least, if somebody demands proof for something that is well known, obvious, or irrelevant, that says more about the person than the discussion at hand, and is pretty much akin to admitting they have no better arguments.

I hear what you're saying, but I've recently pushed for the truth on an issue elsewhere. Just as an example... Jo Swinson once accepted a donation from an energy company involved in fracking. That's the accepted line and repeatedly put about by certain people.

The truth of the matter is that the funding was a personal donation from the CEO of an energy company which has 80% of it's energy coming from renewable sources, and whilst the company does hold a fracking licence, they have never used it. The rumour is that this was a strategic move by the company to prevent any other supplier fracking at a particular location. You can see how the implication of those two versions is completely different.

st2lemans 29.11.2019 14:21

Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Blueangel (Post 3125333)
I've heard similar from my Canadian cousin. He's always said that going to a strip joint for a beer is a normal part of life. In the UK, that would be a bit weird.

The weird bit was that it was part of the interview. :eek:

Tom

TonyClifton 29.11.2019 22:55

Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by marton (Post 3125200)
This is an internet forum so everybody is entitled to post their opinion.

The problem comes when people post their opinions in such a form that it appears they are quoting facts.
In this case, it is useful when people quote the source of their posts.

Proposing that people who read your posts should do google searches to check their content could be interpreted as either lazy or arrogant. Of course, that is just my opinion so you are free to ignore me.

In post 24794 you described me as a fanatic. I am happy to read you have "certainly" avoided making jibes and personal insults; you need to improve your avoidance process.

When I called you an EU fanatic I sincerely meant it. This is not meant as an insult, merely the logical conclusion to your line of argument.

TonyClifton 29.11.2019 23:03

Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah
 
The mask has slipped once again. Just put it on the pile of evidence.

https://metro.co.uk/2019/11/29/jerem...view-11240739/

marton 29.11.2019 23:20

Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TonyClifton (Post 3125526)
When I called you an EU fanatic I sincerely meant it. This is not meant as an insult, merely the logical conclusion to your line of argument.

So according to your logic if you call someone a fanatic when you do mean it then it is not an insult?
Contrariwise if you call someone a fanatic when you do not mean it then it is an insult?
Thanks for clearing that up! :rolleyes:

nickatbasel 29.11.2019 23:25

Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah
 
A real Swiss would not give a t<automoderated>s

Quote:

Originally Posted by k_and_e (Post 3125229)
This makes me realize that I can never become Swiss: my German is not 100% correct and when someone would ask me about cultural differences between Appenzell, Muotatal and Oberwallis, I wouldn't know the answer.


greenmount 30.11.2019 00:47

Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by marton (Post 3125529)
So according to your logic if you call someone a fanatic when you do mean it then it is not an insult?
Contrariwise if you call someone a fanatic when you do not mean it then it is an insult?
Thanks for clearing that up! :rolleyes:

:rofl:
:rofl:
:rofl:

I don't think he's trolling anymore. You know, he meant it in a positive way, like, you know, like "EU aficionado" or something. He really was appreciative. Like, you know...like.

Guest 30.11.2019 00:55

Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TonyClifton (Post 3125526)
When I called you an EU fanatic I sincerely meant it. This is not meant as an insult, merely the logical conclusion to your line of argument.

:confused:

No. Not sure where you learned your English but there are not really any positive connotations to the word "fanatic". It's a pejorative term.

TonyClifton 30.11.2019 07:31

Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by marton (Post 3125529)
So according to your logic if you call someone a fanatic when you do mean it then it is not an insult?
Contrariwise if you call someone a fanatic when you do not mean it then it is an insult?
Thanks for clearing that up! :rolleyes:

Quote:

Originally Posted by greenmount (Post 3125545)
:rofl:
:rofl:
:rofl:

I don't think he's trolling anymore. You know, he meant it in a positive way, like, you know, like "EU aficionado" or something. He really was appreciative. Like, you know...like.

Quote:

:confused:

No. Not sure where you learned your English but there are not really any positive connotations to the word "fanatic". It's a pejorative term.
Marton argued that there is no benefit to a country being in full control over its own governance. Indeed, of the long list of possible benefits to Brexit, marton refuted every single one.

A fanatic is someone who is ”filled with excessive and single-minded zeal, especially for an extreme religious or political cause”. The general theme in marton’s posts is an unquestioning and unwavering support for the EU with an inability to recognise any of its faults, ipso facto fanatical support.

I don’t suggest the word fanatic is a positive one, but it is not in insult. For the avoidance of any doubt, I’ve quoted what I wrote in it’s entirety below.


Quote:

Had you just conceded just one of my arguments to be correct then I may have carried on, however you’re unable to see [I]any[I] benefits of leaving the EU, even when they’re placed before your very eyes. I expect you’re either still in denial about the result or an EU fanatic. It’s no use debating with a fanatic. Good day, sir.

Blueangel 30.11.2019 07:51

Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TonyClifton
Marton argued that there is no benefit to a country being in full control over its own governance. Indeed, of the long list of possible benefits to Brexit, marton refuted every single one.

Marton countered every claim you made. That does not make him a fanatic in the slightest, it merely shows that after almost 4yrs of us dealing with this shite day in and day out, almost every 'positive' to Brexit which has been put into the public domain, has been roundly refuted, and you would have to have been asleep for the last 4yrs not to recognise that.

In that same 4yrs, I've only ever heard one possible positive of brexit, but as it applied to only a tiny group of Geordie workers (under 5k if I recall correctly) it was easy to put aside compared to the exceptional levels of detrimental effects to that masses.

On this forum, the value judgements have been made time and time again, and each phase of the debate gone over in minutiae, which is why you're not getting the open audience you may have expected. Everything you're bringing to the table was debated in full 600 or 700 pages ago in the Brexit thread. Also, the reason you will find little support for your views here is that people who have supported your view appeared incapable of carrying their side of the debate without feeling intimidated by the weight of evidence to the contrary, and/or without resorting to aggression. You're in danger of falling down the same rabbit hole.

TonyClifton 30.11.2019 08:08

Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Blueangel (Post 3125560)
Marton countered every claim you made. That does not make him a fanatic in the slightest, it merely shows that after almost 4yrs of us dealing with this shite day in and day out, almost every 'positive' to Brexit which has been put into the public domain, has been roundly refuted, and you would have to have been asleep for the last 4yrs not to recognise that.

In that same 4yrs, I've only ever heard one possible positive of brexit, but as it applied to only a tiny group of Geordie workers (under 5k if I recall correctly) it was easy to put aside compared to the exceptional levels of detrimental effects to that masses.

On this forum, the value judgements have been made time and time again, and each phase of the debate gone over in minutiae, which is why you're not getting the open audience you may have expected. Everything you're bringing to the table was debated in full 600 or 700 pages ago in the Brexit thread. Also, the reason you will find little support for your views here is that people who have supported your view appeared incapable of carrying their side of the debate without feeling intimidated by the weight of evidence to the contrary, and/or without resorting to aggression. You're in danger of falling down the same rabbit hole.

As much as one single benefit in Newcastle!

It seems to me that this forum is rather clique of power users that have gotten so used to an echo chamber that any dissent is swiftly rounded upon. The responses yesterday to someone asking for help with a work situation were nothing short of a disgrace. First correcting use of English, like xenophobia is so much more acceptable than racism, followed up by sticking the boot in. All for someone who was simply asking for some help with what must be a very difficult and stressful situation.

Perhaps all those people were not unable to carry a debate, but rather got fed up of snide comments, digs, thinly veiled insults and the like. It seems to be the default response to anyone that has opposing opinions to those accepted by the "clique".

Blueangel 30.11.2019 08:13

Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah
 
And that has what exactly to do with this thread? I'm not responsible for the behaviour of others in a thread I haven't read or participated in.

So now, according to you, we're :
" clique of power users that have gotten so used to an echo chamber"
"nothing short of a disgrace"
"like xenophobia is so much more acceptable than racism, followed up by sticking the boot in"
"snide comments, digs, thinly veiled insults and the like"
"the "clique"."

Mikers 30.11.2019 08:45

Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Blueangel (Post 3125564)
And that has what exactly to do with this thread? I'm not responsible for the behaviour of others in a thread I haven't read or participated in.

So now, according to you, we're :
" clique of power users that have gotten so used to an echo chamber"
"nothing short of a disgrace"
"like xenophobia is so much more acceptable than racism, followed up by sticking the boot in"
"snide comments, digs, thinly veiled insults and the like"
"the "clique"."

It is correct though, in a number of topics on EF, it almost has been going too long for its own good. The brexit thread is just a bullying area, plain and simple. JeremY corbyn one is fast approaching that with the aggression on anyone who dares to claim that he does actually have a problem with Jewish people.

The person asking for help with the unexpected bill for a quote too was far to aggressive. I ended up helping the person using the private messaging system here rather than post on the public part of the forum.

Of course you can now deconstruct my post asking me to prove it, Make concrete examples, remind me that this is just conjecture and not fact but I have been using this forum as a help and discussion are for 12 years now, this is a long time, and it is sort of sad now that although I do have thoughts I would still like to make on some of the discussion topics I simply don’t because it results in a barrage of responses within about 30 seconds which I cannot possibly keep up with.

TonyClifton 30.11.2019 09:01

Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by roegner (Post 3125567)
And that from a troll :D

The person yesterday with the workplace situation was also called a troll. Is that the label given to outsiders and those that don’t subscribe to the forum’s groupthink?


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