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  #861  
Old 26.06.2017, 17:03
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Re: What is happening in Turkey tonight?

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Turkey is not going to join the EU.
Only Kippers still think this.
Although I don't think Turkey should not be a member of EU, I do not tie this view on what Erdogan is doing. Things change very very fast in Turkey. Tomorrow Erdogan might die and so many reforms can be passed in 6 months time.

However if the distinction is to be made based on religion, we all know how well this worked out in the past.

In the days an EU army is in talks, I think it is a critical question if the Turkish army should be part of this structure or to be kept outside which would mean that the EU army will be blocked by Russian and Turkish army at its borders.

Therefore, I think Turkey will have special partnership agreement with EU. It should contain customs union, free movement, EU army integration but not part of monetary union,not part of EU parliament or constitution. I don't know maybe a different deal will be proposed but you get the gist.
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  #862  
Old 26.06.2017, 17:10
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Re: What is happening in Turkey tonight?

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Although I don't think Turkey should not be a member of EU, I do not tie this view on what Erdogan is doing. Things change very very fast in Turkey. Tomorrow Erdogan might die and so many reforms can be passed in 6 months time.

However if the distinction is to be made based on religion, we all know how well this worked out in the past.

In the days an EU army is in talks, I think it is a critical question if the Turkish army should be part of this structure or to be kept outside which would mean that the EU army will be blocked by Russian and Turkish army at its borders.

Therefore, I think Turkey will have special partnership agreement with EU. It should contain customs union, free movement, EU army integration but not part of monetary union,not part of EU parliament or constitution. I don't know maybe a different deal will be proposed but you get the gist.
No way should Turkey be a member of the EU in it's current state. Erdogan is a tyrannical dictator, a monster, and if it wasn't for the migrant crisis I would say he should be sanctioned.
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  #863  
Old 26.06.2017, 17:17
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Re: What is happening in Turkey tonight?

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No way should Turkey be a member of the EU in it's current state. Erdogan is a tyrannical dictator, a monster, and if it wasn't for the migrant crisis I would say he should be sanctioned.
Erdogan is not Turkey.
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  #864  
Old 26.06.2017, 17:29
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Re: What is happening in Turkey tonight?

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Although I don't think Turkey should not be a member of EU, I do not tie this view on what Erdogan is doing. Things change very very fast in Turkey. Tomorrow Erdogan might die and so many reforms can be passed in 6 months time.

However if the distinction is to be made based on religion, we all know how well this worked out in the past.

In the days an EU army is in talks, I think it is a critical question if the Turkish army should be part of this structure or to be kept outside which would mean that the EU army will be blocked by Russian and Turkish army at its borders.

Therefore, I think Turkey will have special partnership agreement with EU. It should contain customs union, free movement, EU army integration but not part of monetary union,not part of EU parliament or constitution. I don't know maybe a different deal will be proposed but you get the gist.
It is not made based on religion. But basic life, rights, rules, education, idea of justice etc. should find a common denominator, no?

I don't think anybody in the entire world should team up with Turkey at the moment. The country is in a turmoil and and keeps twirling downwards. It's like a whirlwind and any sane person will stay away from it.
It seems the name of this hurricane is Erdoğan - if it's really that simple, it will pass. We can only hope - and those who think it helps pray - that the storm damage will be remediable.
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  #865  
Old 26.06.2017, 18:11
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Re: What is happening in Turkey tonight?

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It is not made based on religion. But basic life, rights, rules, education, idea of justice etc. should find a common denominator, no?

I don't think anybody in the entire world should team up with Turkey at the moment. The country is in a turmoil and and keeps twirling downwards. It's like a whirlwind and any sane person will stay away from it.
It seems the name of this hurricane is Erdoğan - if it's really that simple, it will pass. We can only hope - and those who think it helps pray - that the storm damage will be remediable.
No objection here...

His says are numbered, I am already getting ready for after him scenario.
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  #866  
Old 26.06.2017, 18:18
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Re: What is happening in Turkey tonight?

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Although I don't think Turkey should not be a member of EU, I do not tie this view on what Erdogan is doing. Things change very very fast in Turkey. Tomorrow Erdogan might die and so many reforms can be passed in 6 months time.

However if the distinction is to be made based on religion, we all know how well this worked out in the past.
Turkey's EU membership has nothing to do with religion and 100% to do with Erdogan.

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Erdogan is not Turkey.
No, it's not, but EU membership is the price Turkey is paying for having him as their leader.
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  #867  
Old 26.06.2017, 18:26
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Re: What is happening in Turkey tonight?

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It is not made based on religion. But basic life, rights, rules, education, idea of justice etc. should find a common denominator, no?

.
Unfortunately whatever Ataturk has made for Turkey it is going to be undone by Erdogan et co., and even if Erdogan falls there will always be some religious figure to want a more "traditional" state.
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  #868  
Old 26.06.2017, 20:42
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Re: What is happening in Turkey tonight?

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Erdogan is not Turkey.

People voted him into power.

Multiple times.

With large majorities.

I would say that Erdogan is as much Turkey as a certain Austrian Corporal was Germany from 1933 until 1945.
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  #869  
Old 26.06.2017, 21:27
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Re: What is happening in Turkey tonight?

Erdogan's bodyguards 'not welcome in Germany' after DC brawl.

Germany has warned Turkey that members of President Recep Tayyip Erdogan's security detail who were involved in a brawl in Washington last month "are not welcome in Germany."

The announcement comes ahead of the G20 summit in Germany next week, which Erdogan is expected to attend.

Source

Pity Trump did not take stronger action-
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  #870  
Old 26.06.2017, 22:20
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Re: What is happening in Turkey tonight?

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People voted him into power.

Multiple times.

With large majorities.

I would say that Erdogan is as much Turkey as a certain Austrian Corporal was Germany from 1933 until 1945.
This is not correct I am affraid.

Yes, he won elections but not "with large majorities". Only in the last eldction the gap was big due to terrorism but keep in mind that was after he lost the power make the government. Even then AKP was at 49%. He was elected president with 52% against a stupid opponent the refarandum was too with 51% and we all know how he got that number.

So in all elections but one majority of the country was against him and his party. But that is how democracy works.
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  #871  
Old 26.06.2017, 22:36
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Re: What is happening in Turkey tonight?

AFAIK, he "owns" the country-side (voter-wise)

Big cities with young, educated voters aren't really his territory.

(Where have we seen this before...?).

But as usual, the "silent majority" is very silent.

Thanks for the clarification and sorry for the exaggeration.
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  #872  
Old 27.06.2017, 07:16
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Re: What is happening in Turkey tonight?

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This is not correct I am affraid.

Yes, he won elections but not "with large majorities". Only in the last eldction the gap was big due to terrorism but keep in mind that was after he lost the power make the government. Even then AKP was at 49%. He was elected president with 52% against a stupid opponent the refarandum was too with 51% and we all know how he got that number.

So in all elections but one majority of the country was against him and his party. But that is how democracy works.
Which makes even more difficult to understand why in Germany for instance (as well as in other EU countries with Turkish diaspora) the vast majority voted for Erdogan....
Frankly, that is more relevant than anything else IMO. Not a good sign at all.

http://www.dw.com/en/why-many-turks-...dum/a-38472130
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  #873  
Old 27.06.2017, 07:32
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Re: What is happening in Turkey tonight?

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Erdogan is not Turkey.
This statement is all kinds of illogical. At the moment, he most certainly is Turkey seeing that he controls the country with an iron fist and intends to remain in power for the forseeable future. He is a cruel tyrant fully in control of the country and its actions that could happily take the country to war tomorrow, and while that is the case Turkey should not be allowed even a sniff of EU membership.

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His says are numbered, I am already getting ready for after him scenario.
Another bizzarre statement. How are his days numbered? He has no real opposition and the majority of people support him. The parliamentary system ha been quashed, and his rule is now absolute. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/16/w...s-erdogan.html
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  #874  
Old 27.06.2017, 09:06
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Re: What is happening in Turkey tonight?

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Which makes even more difficult to understand why in Germany for instance (as well as in other EU countries with Turkish diaspora) the vast majority voted for Erdogan....
Frankly, that is more relevant than anything else IMO. Not a good sign at all.

http://www.dw.com/en/why-many-turks-...dum/a-38472130
Because they do not have to live in Turkey
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Old 27.06.2017, 09:19
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Re: What is happening in Turkey tonight?

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Because they do not have to live in Turkey

A bit like "arm-chair socialism" then, I guess.
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Old 27.06.2017, 09:21
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Re: What is happening in Turkey tonight?

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This statement is all kinds of illogical. At the moment, he most certainly is Turkey seeing that he controls the country with an iron fist and intends to remain in power for the forseeable future. He is a cruel tyrant fully in control of the country and its actions that could happily take the country to war tomorrow, and while that is the case Turkey should not be allowed even a sniff of EU membership.



Another bizzarre statement. How are his days numbered? He has no real opposition and the majority of people support him. The parliamentary system ha been quashed, and his rule is now absolute. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/16/w...s-erdogan.html
Obviously you are not familiar with the daily struggles he still has. Whenever there is a public outcry on a law he is trying to pass, he withdraws it immediately to keep people down. Even he knows he can not accord an internal clash. Therefore, saying that he does everything he wants is not reflecting the reality. Correct, the opposition is useless but do you remember how much he was attacking Meral Aksener. Also, in the referendum he lost all the major cities in Turkey which forced him to change his approach to those locations. He is in a downward trend. He has forced out everyone who can be a competitor to him. There is no second person in his party and movement. His hunger for power is only putting base for his eventual end.

Believe it or not but he is not the first tyrant we have had. Again, his time will be gone and the country of Turkey will go back to its original settings and this will happen so fast.

That being said, I, for one, do not think he will leave power with an election. No tyrant has left power with an election in the end.
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Old 27.06.2017, 09:25
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Re: What is happening in Turkey tonight?

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Because they do not have to live in Turkey
Of course, but my point was that there are some shifts on the societal level that one can't just ignore. Or one can. Whatever.
I don't know how helpful would that be for Turkey though.
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  #878  
Old 27.06.2017, 09:34
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Re: What is happening in Turkey tonight?

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Of course, but my point was that there are some shifts on the societal level that one can't just ignore. Or one can. Whatever.
I don't know how helpful would that be for Turkey though.
what is shitty of them is that they vote for Erdogan in Turkey and vote for freedoms and equality in Germany. That pisses me off.

Luckily, Switzerland voted otherwise
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  #879  
Old 07.07.2017, 22:25
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Re: What is happening in Turkey tonight?

During the last year the Turkish Govt has seized companies claimed to be linked to Gulen so pocketing assets worth ca. $11Bn!

Source

Luckily Turkey does not have to follow any sort of formal court procedures with defence lawyers, witnesses and evidence; it is enough to say "we know who they are"
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  #880  
Old 07.07.2017, 23:29
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Re: What is happening in Turkey tonight?

"Believe it or not but he is not the first tyrant we have had. Again, his time will be gone and the country of Turkey will go back to its original settings"

Plenty to choose from. Empress Theodora would be a good start.
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