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  #1101  
Old 18.07.2019, 10:04
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Re: What is happening in Turkey tonight?

Another slap to the Sultan - F35 won't be delivered to Turkey.
That should free up budget to improve the lives of his subjects. as if.
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  #1102  
Old 18.07.2019, 10:27
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Re: What is happening in Turkey tonight?

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Another slap to the Sultan - F35 won't be delivered to Turkey.
That should free up budget to improve the lives of his subjects. as if.

Makes me think. Would he have bought the Russian system in order not to go through the humiliating experience that they can't afford F35s - paid in dollars?
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  #1103  
Old 09.08.2019, 15:51
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Re: What is happening in Turkey tonight?

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The Turkish lira slips 0.2% against the U.S. dollar after Bloomberg reports that Turkey's central bank removed at least nine high-ranking officials including chief economist Hakan Kara.

Others removed from duty include the bank's head of research, risk management chief, banking department chief and institutional transformation manager.
Clowns running the circus!
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  #1104  
Old 09.08.2019, 16:06
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Re: What is happening in Turkey tonight?

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Makes me think. Would he have bought the Russian system in order not to go through the humiliating experience that they can't afford F35s - paid in dollars?
Riiight.....

Because when you are part of a military alliance and have certain obligations this is exactly what are you supposed to do in order to avoid "humiliations".

Suppose that was (yet another) an attempt to humour or something...
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  #1105  
Old 09.08.2019, 16:47
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Re: What is happening in Turkey tonight?

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Riiight.....

Because when you are part of a military alliance and have certain obligations this is exactly what are you supposed to do in order to avoid "humiliations".

Suppose that was (yet another) an attempt to humour or something...

Totally serious post. There must be some motivation why to buy a Russian defence system while you are in the Nato. Try to think Erdogan-style, not Greenmount-style.
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  #1106  
Old 09.08.2019, 18:03
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Re: What is happening in Turkey tonight?

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Totally serious post. There must be some motivation why to buy a Russian defence system while you are in the Nato. Try to think Erdogan-style, not Greenmount-style.
You seem a tiny little bit defensive and a tiny little bit condescending in this post, K_and_E. But I try not to hold that against you.

If money, or rather the lack of, would be the only motivation based on which Erdogan took certain decisions, that would have been clarified some time ago. Turkey is not the richest country in the world - that is not a secret and not really difficult to bring up in those meetings (official and non-official) they have, alternatives could have been found.

Erdogan doesn't think only of money, which are not his money anyway. These are some strategic moves, he is not stupid. We have a divided NATO because Russia wants a divided NATO, as Russia also wants a divided EU. It is a spiel they play and Erdogan joined in because he can gain something from here.
As I said before, good, the man is doing what the man has to do in order to re-negotiate the status of his country and have a foot in solving some geopolitical issues . But that means he is helping Russia and this is not something we can just overlook and say, hhhm, ok, whatever. He plays a little. He's not a child.

Last edited by greenmount; 09.08.2019 at 18:17.
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  #1107  
Old 15.10.2019, 07:53
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Re: What is happening in Turkey tonight?

Can someone explain what just happened in Turkey? I’ve lost the thread...

Trump removes troops.
Rest of the world tells him it’s a bad idea.
Erdogan gets an opportunity to bomb the Kurds to clear the border area.
IS prisoners escape and everything is going to shit.
Trump and Pence are hopping mad and impose sanctions.

Does this mean that Trump didn’t realise that Erdogan would take full advantage of the situation if he removed his troops?

I just don’t get this most recent development.
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  #1108  
Old 15.10.2019, 08:15
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Re: What is happening in Turkey tonight?

Quote:
Can someone explain what just happened in Turkey? I’ve lost the thread...

Trump removes troops.
Rest of the world tells him it’s a bad idea.
Erdogan gets an opportunity to bomb the Kurds to clear the border area.
IS prisoners escape and everything is going to shit.
Trump and Pence are hopping mad and impose sanctions.

Does this mean that Trump didn’t realise that Erdogan would take full advantage of the situation if he removed his troops?

I just don’t get this most recent development.
It's simple. Trump has no idea how the real world works.
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  #1109  
Old 15.10.2019, 09:04
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Re: What is happening in Turkey tonight?

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Can someone explain what just happened in Turkey? I’ve lost the thread...

Trump removes troops.
Rest of the world tells him it’s a bad idea.
Erdogan gets an opportunity to bomb the Kurds to clear the border area.
IS prisoners escape and everything is going to shit.
Trump and Pence are hopping mad and impose sanctions.

Does this mean that Trump didn’t realise that Erdogan would take full advantage of the situation if he removed his troops?

I just don’t get this most recent development.
The negotiations for a safe zone was ongoing since months now. So Trump knew very well what Erdogan was going to do. Trump had promised that he would bring the soldiers back home during his campaign and he wanted to accomplish that hoping that it would bring him more votes but it worked just the opposite as everyone reacted badly to this move.

Turkey was always going to anything possible not to let a militarized kurdish force right at its boarder (around 200km long exposure), this is not something new Turkey has been saying this since years.

As per the IS prisoners, I wonder what was the end plan for them. I mean was the objective to keep them there indefinitely? I have no idea to be honest.

I think USA (Obama) made a big mistake with militarizing the Kurds in the region to fight IS. An international coalition should have fought them. It didnt have to be the Turkish army but also not a minority within a country too.

Imagine Russia training and weaponizing the native Americans in USA to fight against the drug cartels but also the government.
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  #1110  
Old 15.10.2019, 10:31
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Re: What is happening in Turkey tonight?

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The negotiations for a safe zone was ongoing since months now. So Trump knew very well what Erdogan was going to do. Trump had promised that he would bring the soldiers back home during his campaign and he wanted to accomplish that hoping that it would bring him more votes but it worked just the opposite as everyone reacted badly to this move.

Turkey was always going to anything possible not to let a militarized kurdish force right at its boarder (around 200km long exposure), this is not something new Turkey has been saying this since years.

As per the IS prisoners, I wonder what was the end plan for them. I mean was the objective to keep them there indefinitely? I have no idea to be honest.

I think USA (Obama) made a big mistake with militarizing the Kurds in the region to fight IS. An international coalition should have fought them. It didnt have to be the Turkish army but also not a minority within a country too.

Imagine Russia training and weaponizing the native Americans in USA to fight against the drug cartels but also the government.
Correct, Trump never expected such a bad reaction to his dumb decision and is now scrabbling backward.

I do not think the Native American analogy is a good one. The basic problem is that there is a lot of intertribal fighting in the Middle East plus outside forces.
Military groups fighting in Syria in addition to the Syrian Army are Russian, Iranian, US, French, German, Turkey, TFSA & Turkmen & Turkistan (all funded by Turkey), at least four different Kurdish groups, ISIS, Al Queda, Hezbollah, the Free Syrian Army, plus many other small groups.

It is hard to complain about USA (Obama) making a big mistake with militarizing the Kurds when Turkey has done similar funding and arming of groups? And let us not forget Turkey was caught shipping arms to ISIS.
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  #1111  
Old 15.10.2019, 10:44
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Re: What is happening in Turkey tonight?

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Correct, Trump never expected such a bad reaction to his dumb decision and is now scrabbling backward.

Not only Trump but Erdogan also overplayed his hand. With the Syrian national army being involved, he has managed to have a complicated relationship with US and Russia within a week.
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  #1112  
Old 15.10.2019, 10:47
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Re: What is happening in Turkey tonight?

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Correct, Trump never expected such a bad reaction to his dumb decision and is now scrabbling backward.

I do not think the Native American analogy is a good one. The basic problem is that there is a lot of intertribal fighting in the Middle East plus outside forces.
Military groups fighting in Syria in addition to the Syrian Army are Russian, Iranian, US, French, German, Turkey, TFSA & Turkmen & Turkistan (all funded by Turkey), at least four different Kurdish groups, ISIS, Al Queda, Hezbollah, the Free Syrian Army, plus many other small groups.

It is hard to complain about USA (Obama) making a big mistake with militarizing the Kurds when Turkey has done similar funding and arming of groups? And let us not forget Turkey was caught shipping arms to ISIS.
My analogy was trying to go as simple as possible but you are very right on the complexity on what is happening there.

I am certain all those major powers used ISIS at some point either with weapons,buying their oil, providing military training,etc. Yes, Turkey got "caught". As much as Turkey has an influence on the region, it is not capable of making such decisions like supporting IS on its own. Just like it could not have made this last operation if it was not agreed with USA and Russia.

All in all, Syria was one of the pandora's boxes in the region that should have never been opened. I do not think the protests against the Esads goverment and the IS invasion happening at the same time was a coincidence.
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  #1113  
Old 15.10.2019, 10:53
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Re: What is happening in Turkey tonight?

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Not only Trump but Erdogan also overplayed his hand. With the Syrian national army being involved, he has managed to have a complicated relationship with US and Russia within a week.
What I am reading is that there are a lot of discussions happening between Turkey,Russia and USA. There is also a growing pressure on Erdogan to reestablish the relationships with Esad.

Now is the time to put the egos aside for Erdogan if he wants this operation to be successful. He has to solve the immigrants crisis in Turkey as the last election showed him that people especially his voters are very frustrated with the immigrants.(irony in that)
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  #1114  
Old 15.10.2019, 13:55
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Re: What is happening in Turkey tonight?

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What I am reading is that there are a lot of discussions happening between Turkey,Russia and USA. There is also a growing pressure on Erdogan to reestablish the relationships with Esad.

Now is the time to put the egos aside for Erdogan if he wants this operation to be successful. He has to solve the immigrants crisis in Turkey as the last election showed him that people especially his voters are very frustrated with the immigrants.(irony in that)
Presumably, the Syrian army is well equipped with antiaircraft and antitank missiles so they are a serious threat to the Turkish encroachment in Syria.
But so far there is no sign of them using these weapons, maybe Assad will be satisfied with taking over some key cities from the Kurds and will not actually protect the Kurds from the Turks?

Certainly, there are reports of bombing this morning
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  #1115  
Old 15.10.2019, 14:40
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Re: What is happening in Turkey tonight?

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Russia announced Tuesday that it has units patrolling between Turkish and Syrian forces in northern Syria after the withdrawal of U.S. troops from the area.

Russian military police in the northwestern town of Manbij were “along the line of contact between the Syrian Arab Republic and Turkey,” the Defense Ministry in Moscow told The Washington Post in a statement.
Source

Great, if they can prevent more killing but who wudda thought it!
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  #1116  
Old 15.10.2019, 23:04
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Re: What is happening in Turkey tonight?

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Great, if they can prevent more killing but who wudda thought it!
One of the points being that the NATO treaty doesn't apply outside of Turkey's borders.

Now, what would happen if Turkey stationed heavy artillery just inside its border and used them to shell Syriah? (conventional heavy artillery has up to 40km firing range) That would enable Syria (and Russia as their called-for ally) to attack Turkey's homeland based on the right to self-defense, but what would that mean with regards to NATO? Technically that could trigger the Casus Foederis, but in such a case each member country is still free to decide what response they deem appropriate.

Messy, messier, Middle East.
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  #1117  
Old 16.10.2019, 09:06
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Re: What is happening in Turkey tonight?

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It's simple. Trump has no idea how the real world works.
Do you really think Trump makes all these decisions
America is the world's biggest superpower by far. Decisions that are made, good or bad are made with whole group of people.

They could have Britney Spears as a president and they would do just fine like always.

It's the media that exaggerates everything.
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  #1118  
Old 16.10.2019, 09:12
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Re: What is happening in Turkey tonight?

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Do you really think Trump makes all these decisions
America is the world's biggest superpower by far. Decisions that are made, good or bad are made with whole group of people.

They could have Britney Spears as a president and they would do just fine like always.

It's the media that exaggerates everything.
Final say so is his, so the buck stops with him.
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  #1119  
Old 30.10.2019, 09:46
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Re: What is happening in Turkey tonight?

More blowback for Erdogan from the US Congress
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The House passed a resolution on Tuesday officially recognizing and rebuking the Ottoman Empire's genocide against the Armenian people and rejecting any efforts to enlist the U.S. government in denying that the genocide took place.

Proponents of the long-delayed measure, which passed in a 405-11 vote, argue that it's a necessary and overdue step in providing justice for Armenians.
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Karma.
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  #1120  
Old 30.10.2019, 10:07
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Re: What is happening in Turkey tonight?

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More blowback for Erdogan from the US Congress


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Karma.
....and it took them decades to see that and it pops up right on time with the Kurdish problem. It's all about politics and geostrategical shite blah blah blah. Nothing to do with actually feeling sorry for any people, don't you think? Of course, it's not a bad thing but let's not forget how these things work.
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