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crazygringo 16.07.2016 03:41

US Report on Saudi Involvement in 9/11 Released
 
for those who are interested:

http://intelligence.house.gov/sites/...classpart4.pdf

every day I hope that people start realizing that the "war" they think terrorists are fighting has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with politics. and not just Americans, either, I have the same hope for all of the many countries suffering the effects.

I also hope that the release of the "28 pages" finally brings, to the extent humanly possible, peace and closure (including private civil actions against the Saudi government) to the families of the victims of 9/11.

Wollishofener 17.07.2016 11:48

Re: US Report on Saudi Involvement in 9/11 Released
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by crazygringo (Post 2624365)
for those who are interested:

http://intelligence.house.gov/sites/...classpart4.pdf

every day I hope that people start realizing that the "war" they think terrorists are fighting has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with politics. and not just Americans, either, I have the same hope for all of the many countries suffering the effects.

I also hope that the release of the "28 pages" finally brings, to the extent humanly possible, peace and closure (including private civil actions against the Saudi government) to the families of the victims of 9/11.



Saudi WHO ?


- government
- some of the 6000 Princes
- some rich chaps
- the Opposition
????


-

crazygringo 17.07.2016 15:55

Re: US Report on Saudi Involvement in 9/11 Released
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Wollishofener (Post 2624661)
Saudi WHO ?


- government
- some of the 6000 Princes
- some rich chaps
- the Opposition
????


-

if you read the report, you will see that those identified as having potential involvement included a Saudi Ambassador to the US, Saudi intelligence officials, at least one member of the royal family, and a hodge podge of rich chaps. I would consider the first 3 to fall within the definition of "government".

:confused:

nice to see you back :)

slammer 17.07.2016 17:11

Re: US Report on Saudi Involvement in 9/11 Released
 
Any person with two braincells to rub together has known this for years. What is surprising is that the US of A lashed out at anything but the House of Saud.

Urs Max 17.07.2016 17:45

Re: US Report on Saudi Involvement in 9/11 Released
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by slammer (Post 2624761)
Any person with two braincells to rub together has known this for years. What is surprising is that the US of A lashed out at anything but the House of Saud.

Same reason as for the lie of WMD in Iraq: It's the oil.

slammer 17.07.2016 22:24

Re: US Report on Saudi Involvement in 9/11 Released
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Urs Max (Post 2624768)
Same reason as for the lie of WMD in Iraq: It's the oil.

Not that simple, the US doesnīt get itīs oil from Saudi, it would imply that the countries that do get their oil from Saudi dictate US policy.

crazygringo 17.07.2016 23:29

Re: US Report on Saudi Involvement in 9/11 Released
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Urs Max (Post 2624768)
Same reason as for the lie of WMD in Iraq: It's the oil.

it was always the oil prior to the second Bush administration, meaning oil in the broadest sense of "American business interests". with the second Bush administration, however, it meant oil in the much more narrow sense of "private business interests having particular value to members of the Bush administration." this is part of what makes the second Bush administration a criminal organization and an embarrassment to American history.

the rather quiet and slow backing away from the Saudi relationship - publishing the redacted 9/11 report, moving in baby steps toward normalizing relations with Iran, increased emphasis on relations with Turkey - has been one of the efforts of the Obama administration that has a chance of long-term benefit.

JagWaugh 18.07.2016 03:02

Re: US Report on Saudi Involvement in 9/11 Released
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by slammer (Post 2624854)
Not that simple, the US doesnīt get itīs oil from Saudi, it would imply that the countries that do get their oil from Saudi dictate US policy.

Pardon?

Saudi is currently the 2nd largest supplier, according to http://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=727&t=6

and the level has been roughly the same since the early '90s.
https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/Le...MTTNTUSSA2&f=A

Even if your argument didn't hinge on the 1st false premise I'm still not sure what you mean. Care to elaborate?

Wollishofener 18.07.2016 03:29

Re: US Report on Saudi Involvement in 9/11 Released
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by crazygringo (Post 2624737)
if you read the report, you will see that those identified as having potential involvement included a Saudi Ambassador to the US, Saudi intelligence officials, at least one member of the royal family, and a hodge podge of rich chaps. I would consider the first 3 to fall within the definition of "government".

:confused:

nice to see you back :)




NO. only few of thr Princes are in the government. and lots of Business Tycoons are rather in opposition

crazygringo 18.07.2016 03:52

Re: US Report on Saudi Involvement in 9/11 Released
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JagWaugh (Post 2624891)
Pardon?

Saudi is currently the 2nd largest supplier, according to http://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=727&t=6

and the level has been roughly the same since the early '90s.
https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/Le...MTTNTUSSA2&f=A

Even if your argument didn't hinge on the 1st false premise I'm still not sure what you mean. Care to elaborate?

Saudi represents approx. 11% of US oil imports. US oil imports constitute approx. one-third of its total oil consumption. This equates to Saudi oil constituting approx. 4% of US oil consumption.

Fyi, from the link you provided, US imports of Saudi oil have dropped from approx. 1,433 thousand barrels a day in the early 90's to approx. 1,055 barrels a day today. This constitutes an approx. 27% decrease in US imports of Saudi oil over that time period, which doesn't seem quite the same as "roughly the same". In fact, US oil imports in 2005 represented approx. 60% of its consumption, whereas today those imports constitute approx. a third of its consumption.

JagWaugh 18.07.2016 04:08

Re: US Report on Saudi Involvement in 9/11 Released
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by crazygringo (Post 2624895)
Saudi represents approx. 11% of US oil imports. US oil imports constitute approx. one-third of its total oil consumption. This equates to Saudi oil constituting approx. 4% of US oil consumption.

Fyi, from the link you provided, US imports of Saudi oil have dropped from approx. 1,433 thousand barrels a day in the early 90's to approx. 1,055 barrels a day today. This constitutes an approx. 27% decrease in US imports of Saudi oil over that time period, which doesn't seem quite the same as "roughly the same". In fact, US oil imports in 2005 represented approx. 60% of its consumption, whereas today those imports constitute approx. a third of its consumption.

11% means that the US does get oil from Saudi, no? Your claim was that the US doesn't get its oil from Saudi.

That the US now gets less oil from Saudi isn't related to the state of affairs at the time of the Sept 11 attacks.

At the time of the attacks the US was getting oil from Saudi.

Urs Max 18.07.2016 10:07

Re: US Report on Saudi Involvement in 9/11 Released
 
Yes, it's not just the oil but just as much business interests in general.
Quote:

Originally Posted by crazygringo (Post 2624873)
this is part of what makes the second Bush administration a criminal organization and an embarrassment to American history.

the rather quiet and slow backing away from the Saudi relationship - publishing the redacted 9/11 report, moving in baby steps toward normalizing relations with Iran, increased emphasis on relations with Turkey - has been one of the efforts of the Obama administration that has a chance of long-term benefit.

I see insignificant difference by the Obama administration. While the location has changed, what happened and keeps happening in Ukraine is very much the same old same old.

In my mind the volume of direct imports doesn't really matter because oil is a global market, meaning there's no regional under-/oversupply, only a global one.

Treverus 18.07.2016 10:40

Re: US Report on Saudi Involvement in 9/11 Released
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by crazygringo (Post 2624895)
Saudi represents approx. 11% of US oil imports. US oil imports constitute approx. one-third of its total oil consumption. This equates to Saudi oil constituting approx. 4% of US oil consumption.

Fyi, from the link you provided, US imports of Saudi oil have dropped from approx. 1,433 thousand barrels a day in the early 90's to approx. 1,055 barrels a day today. This constitutes an approx. 27% decrease in US imports of Saudi oil over that time period, which doesn't seem quite the same as "roughly the same". In fact, US oil imports in 2005 represented approx. 60% of its consumption, whereas today those imports constitute approx. a third of its consumption.



"It's the oil" is an oversimplification because you know, the political far left is in no way smarter than the far right and likes to paint things black and white.


A long story short: there are two powers in the middle east: Iran is running the Shia Muslim world and Saudis are leading the Sunni Muslim countries. It does not take more than a map to see that they are the two large powers in the region. Iran is a long story, but in short: the US don't consider them buddies right now.


Leaves the US with one potential ally in order to have a political influence in what is probably the worlds most difficult region. Turkey and Israel, the other two allies are often more of an issue than a solution for the US. Having a good relationship with the kingdom makes from a strategic perspective perfect sense... but it makes you look like an idiot when:
- you spend an hour in the UN security council trying to make up connections between Bin Laden and Iraq... (and ignoring the obvious Saudi ties).
- complain about any dictators in the world and the need to bring them freedom (while ignoring the country with the second highest death sentences after China...)
- you claim the moral high ground for yourself in any way.


This is btw not an American problem but true for most "Western" countries.

slammer 18.07.2016 22:04

Re: US Report on Saudi Involvement in 9/11 Released
 
At the bottom line, the Saudies were involved in 9/11?
Meh!
What the world needs are more pictures of Kardashianīs fat arse and cats, more lol-cats please and seven ways to get stinking rich and Trump.
Oh, almost forgot, Muslims and immigrants... Anything else?

Wollishofener 18.07.2016 22:14

Re: US Report on Saudi Involvement in 9/11 Released
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JagWaugh (Post 2624898)
11% means that the US does get oil from Saudi, no? Your claim was that the US doesn't get its oil from Saudi.

That the US now gets less oil from Saudi isn't related to the state of affairs at the time of the Sept 11 attacks.

At the time of the attacks the US was getting oil from Saudi.


bear iin mind rhat oil afterf having been loaded changes ownership enroute many times


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