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  #81  
Old 20.07.2016, 13:21
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Re: An Islamic Terrorist Attack just Happened in (*Fill in the Blank*)

So what do the latest terrorists have in common?

1. They are men.
2. They are Muslim (although some haven't been especially religious until recently)
3. They are troubled due to their private lives and have esteem issues.
4. They seem to have been radicalized within a short time of their attacks.
5. They use various methods to kill as many people as possible in the name of Allah.

Questions:
1. What method of persuasion is used to motivate these people to kill random individuals?
2. What can be done to destroy the credibility of such methods of persuasion?
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  #82  
Old 20.07.2016, 13:21
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Re: An Islamic Terrorist Attack just Happened in (*Fill in the Blank*)

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I am sure you would get more support from the state then an Asylum seeker would. The biggest scroungers I have ever encountered were not immigrants or refugees. Fact.

Maybe your fact but not mine nor my experience of the past 9 years and got several folders full of paperwork to prove it.

But, I am not a whinnying Minnie looking for pity or worse, because it is so (my fact!) and i got dealt this life......I try to make every day the best of the situation and survive on my own and get prouder of myself for doing that every day! I'll fight on!

But I do admit to get in a huff and really very angry ...and stand by what I said in my previous post in regards to immigration and all it entails!
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  #83  
Old 20.07.2016, 13:24
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Re: An Islamic Terrorist Attack just Happened in (*Fill in the Blank*)

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Sadly, this is also exactly the kind of thing racists say to cover their racism.
I absolutely agree with you because it's objective rather than subjective.


In was reminded of this last night in a conversation with a Swiss neighbour who was telling me that he was once beaten up by two Kosovan guys. I didn't realise until last night that Switzerland also took Kosovan refugees back in the 90's, but my neighbour is the 4th European nationality I've heard talk about the exact same issue we had with Kosovans in my home town. The issue back then was that some of the Kosovan guys (most definitely not all of them, or even the majority) carried knives, and the ones arrested for this in my home town, tried to say it was part of their culture and their rights were being infringed. The Kosovans I knew at the time denied that carrying a knife was a cultural thing for them.


Back in WWII, the G.I.s based in the UK also had similar issues with assimilating into British culture, and a number of short films were made to help both sides to understand each others' culture. To me, this proves that many issues that people would attribute to immigration, are matters of assimilation, mutual expectations, understanding and integration. To merely blame immigration as a whole, does stray into racism whether you like it or not.
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  #84  
Old 20.07.2016, 13:25
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Re: An Islamic Terrorist Attack just Happened in (*Fill in the Blank*)

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This is a perfect example. We're not talking racial issues here, we're talking about mismanagement of government, and its disrespect for the people they are suppose to represent. This is necessary conversation. Derailing it as racist misses the point. We simply should expect better performance from those we supposedly put in charge.
Couldn't agree more. But as long as the vote is swung by who disses whom better, or doesn't advance my pet agenda then we as a group get what we deserve.

I've said it before: We are all responsible for which lies we choose to believe.
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  #85  
Old 20.07.2016, 14:08
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Re: An Islamic Terrorist Attack just Happened in (*Fill in the Blank*)

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I claim the haves of this world are racist against the have nots. They refuse to pay more taxes to accommodate with greater solidarity the poor guys.
Why should the people earning high salaries who are already in the higher tax brackets pay even more taxes than they already do, just to balance out society's inequality? That isn't fair, we don't live in a communist society, and we shouldn't have to pay for the failures of our governments to look after their own citizens.

The UK already gives a significant amount in aid to foreign countries, and many charities are actively helping too.

This vision that we are all there to help each-other as some kind of big global commune is not even slightly realistic.
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  #86  
Old 20.07.2016, 14:14
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Re: An Islamic Terrorist Attack just Happened in (*Fill in the Blank*)

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Just another example that Germany have no idea who they've let into their country and have no way of preventing something like this happening again.
How is what I said an example of anything? You are basically calling for the end of all Muslims travelling into Europe, and tighter restrictions or kicking Muslims out? I don't see your attitude as anything other then xenophobic or Trumpish. Actually I don't think it's immigration you are worried about. This thread itself is inciteful enough, but when the bigots get on and rant about their percieved causes of these dreadful incidents it's efing tragic!
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  #87  
Old 20.07.2016, 14:26
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Re: An Islamic Terrorist Attack just Happened in (*Fill in the Blank*)

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So what do the latest terrorists have in common?

1. They are men.
2. They are Muslim (although some haven't been especially religious until recently)
3. They are troubled due to their private lives and have esteem issues.
4. They seem to have been radicalized within a short time of their attacks.
5. They use various methods to kill as many people as possible in the name of Allah.

Questions:
1. What method of persuasion is used to motivate these people to kill random individuals?
2. What can be done to destroy the credibility of such methods of persuasion?
Most were men, not all eg. San Bernadino was a married couple, and she was the motivator. Also not all were radicalized shortly before the attacks, but yea alot were.

You are asking the right questions tho. The police need to focus on the hate-preaching Imams or other ones who are the source of preaching the hateful ideology. But there's alot of problems there, I don't know if the police have enough resources to monitor so many, or even if they do, will there be left-wing "outrage" if Mosques are monitored? Also what about on-line radicalization? The Nice guy was reported to be consuming a bunch of radical Islam on-line. Why does it seem so easy to get this stuff on-line? It should be stomped out like child porn. Block the websites, trace the IP address of those watching it, throw them in jail or deport them, etc. Calls for killing certain ethnic/religious groups is against the law in EU countries.

The Muslim community also needs to police itself, and have a "see something, say something" kind of atmosphere. Staying silent is bad for everyone.

...and then there's the point that so many Muslim migrants are flowing in without anyone to really check, control or monitor them...
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  #88  
Old 20.07.2016, 14:35
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Re: An Islamic Terrorist Attack just Happened in (*Fill in the Blank*)

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How is what I said an example of anything? You are basically calling for the end of all Muslims travelling into Europe, and tighter restrictions or kicking Muslims out?
No-one is suggesting calling for an end to all Muslims travelling to Europe, and to even suggests so shows that you really aren't thinking rationally are only interested in the aforementioned faux-outrage/political correctness.

We are talking about the mass and for the most part largely unchecked migration of hundreds and thousands or people whose backgrounds and identities we do not know and have no way of checking. Within this influx of migrants will be many ISIS-sympathisers, and even ISIS themselves. How can we prevent that under the current system? We can't.

How does that equate to "banning all Muslims travelling into Europe"? Answer: it doesn't, unless you are looking at things in such simple terms as to be worthless to the discussion at hand.
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  #89  
Old 20.07.2016, 14:41
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Re: An Islamic Terrorist Attack just Happened in (*Fill in the Blank*)

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Maybe your fact but not mine nor my experience of the past 9 years and got several folders full of paperwork to prove it.

But, I am not a whinnying Minnie looking for pity or worse, because it is so (my fact!) and i got dealt this life......I try to make every day the best of the situation and survive on my own and get prouder of myself for doing that every day! I'll fight on!

But I do admit to get in a huff and really very angry ...and stand by what I said in my previous post in regards to immigration and all it entails!
I am truly sorry about your situation, but blaming Refugees is a bit Daily Mail. The UK just outed from Europe on a false promise of 350 mil back into the NHS a week and has now voted to renew its 40bn Nuclear Sub program, yet it lets massive companies off of paying corporation taxes that amount to billions less in social support and services for the tax payer, and much more then all the money that a few refugees would take. And if its immigration from EU countries like Poland or Estonia that you feel are stealing your given right to benefits that's bollocks too as they work and contribute the same as any native would. In the UK its the Tories that are reducing benefits which is hitting those that need it hard, I know from personal experience.

As for how it affects people in Switzerland?????? I doubt it affects people here at all financially.

But alas you have strayed well, well, off topic and onto a blame the immigrants game which is just bigotry.
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  #90  
Old 20.07.2016, 14:41
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Re: An Islamic Terrorist Attack just Happened in (*Fill in the Blank*)

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I'm not sure why some people seem determined to discuss these things ad nauseum either, but in the interests of equality I've modified the title to make it a little more inclusive and a little less pre-judgemental.
Hi, can you please change it back to it's original title? I would like to discuss specifically Islamic terrorism. Is that ok, or is it breaking a forum rule, then please point out the rule specifically? Thanks.

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“All of France is under threat from Islamist terrorism,” said an ashen-faced Hollande in a televised address from the presidential palace just before 4am
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ncois-hollande
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  #91  
Old 20.07.2016, 14:56
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Re: An Islamic Terrorist Attack just Happened in (*Fill in the Blank*)

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The Muslim community also needs to police itself, and have a "see something, say something" kind of atmosphere. Staying silent is bad for everyone.

...and then there's the point that so many Muslim migrants are flowing in without anyone to really check, control or monitor them...

Good Points but easier said that done.....as there are some home made problems as well.

For example in Biel where I live, resides and preaches the head of the IZRS Nicolas Blancho, a Swiss who converted to Islam, in my opinion is very much a hardliner and not in the best meaning of the word, supports the Sharia law and that women have to wear a Burka, the mosque he preaches at is known to attract a lot of similar hardliners.....and has also already been linked to ISIS supporters etc.

Currently his wife is in Ticino with some chaperones, this because the Ticinesi people voted for a law that forbids wearing Burkas in public ..... now she is there to prompt fines, which a rich Muslim then pays.

Pure provocation,.....now how does stuff like that help us to understand Muslims and the Islam better?

And why do we have to adapt to the wants and needs of a belief and culture which is not our own and pressed upon us by extremists , see the attack on a Mum and kids yesterday in France.
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  #92  
Old 20.07.2016, 15:13
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Re: An Islamic Terrorist Attack just Happened in (*Fill in the Blank*)

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We are talking about the mass and for the most part largely unchecked migration of hundreds and thousands or people whose backgrounds and identities we do not know and have no way of checking. Within this influx of migrants will be many ISIS-sympathisers, and even ISIS themselves. How can we prevent that under the current system? We can't.

How does that equate to "banning all Muslims travelling into Europe"? Answer: it doesn't, unless you are looking at things in such simple terms as to be worthless to the discussion at hand.
Thats exactly what is being proposed. How could the police or the secret service tell if anyone is an IS sympathizer or not, at least not without costly, (to the taxpayer) long background checks and surveillance, phone taps, and breaking into encrypted iphones.

So then people propose immigration control should be absolutely restricted to all but the few, the affluent Muslims and probably Saudis that are allowed in to Europe. Then how would we know if somebody was radicalized in prison or a second or third generation moderate kid with no prospects, or a white European somebody who has converted? It is all but impossible to monitor tightly unless you follow the solution that Trump proposes, which yes, I am afraid does veer towards Fascism.
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  #93  
Old 20.07.2016, 15:16
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Re: An Islamic Terrorist Attack just Happened in (*Fill in the Blank*)

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Sadly, this is also exactly the kind of thing racists say to cover their racism.
It is the easiest and most brainless thing in the world to accuse someone of racism simply because you don't agree with their views. However, I doubt for a second you could actually justify such an accusation.
And where or how exactly does NAT place you in the racist corner?

Your statement can come from racists as well as from non-racists, that's a fact. It's quite fair to highlight that especially considering your wording is quite derogatory itself against those opposing your POV and clearly doesn't help an open discussion.
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  #94  
Old 20.07.2016, 15:22
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Re: An Islamic Terrorist Attack just Happened in (*Fill in the Blank*)

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Thats exactly what is being proposed. How could the police or the secret service tell if anyone is an IS sympathizer or not, at least not without costly, (to the taxpayer) long background checks and surveillance, phone taps, and breaking into encrypted iphones.

So then people propose immigration control should be absolutely restricted to all but the few, the affluent Muslims and probably Saudis that are allowed in to Europe? Then how would we know if somebody was radicalized in prison or a second or third generation moderate kid with no prospects, or a white European somebody who has converted. It is all but impossible to monitor tightly unless you follow the solution that Trump proposes, which yes, I am afraid does veer towards Fascism.
No-one is going to ban all Muslims travelling into Europe, it is ludicrous and completely illogical.

We can, however, dramatically change the way we process refugees/migrants. Keep them temporarily in separate secure complexes, take fingerprints etc, make an attempt to perform identity background checks with their home countries, and do not release a single person into EU society until they have been thoroughly processed and the correct papers issued.

We handled this crisis wrongly from the start, and we will certainly pay the price in years to come.
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Old 20.07.2016, 15:28
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Re: An Islamic Terrorist Attack just Happened in (*Fill in the Blank*)

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And where or how exactly does NAT place you in the racist corner?

Your statement can come from racists as well as from non-racists, that's a fact. It's quite fair to highlight that especially considering your wording is quite derogatory itself against those opposing your POV and clearly doesn't help an open discussion.
Any statement can come from racist and non-racists, the point is that simply shouting something is 'racist' is the lazy, non-thinking persons way of doing things.

I would doubt a single person in this thread could be justifiably accused of being racist. Ignorance, perhaps, but then that could be levelled at a lot of people in these threads on both sides of the coin.
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Old 20.07.2016, 15:36
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Re: An Islamic Terrorist Attack just Happened in (*Fill in the Blank*)

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No-one is going to ban all Muslims travelling into Europe, it is ludicrous and completely illogical.
I know that, tell that to some other commentators on this forum.

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We can, however, dramatically change the way we process refugees/migrants. Keep them temporarily in separate secure complexes, take fingerprints etc, make an attempt to perform identity background checks with their home countries, and do not release a single person into EU society until they have been thoroughly processed and the correct papers issued.

We handled this crisis wrongly from the start, and we will certainly pay the price in years to come.
Agreed that might be a solution, but a) its impossible to control, since the EU's free movement has meant that quite often overland travel in Europe is not monitored, Refugees are arriving in many ways from Syria and North Africa, Central Asia, and b) who would fund those background checks, when then countries where many of these refugees are from, are war torn ruins, so what records would actually still exist.

The other side of this is that the majority of these attacks are not being carried out by new arrivals.
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  #97  
Old 20.07.2016, 15:44
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Re: An Islamic Terrorist Attack just Happened in (*Fill in the Blank*)

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The other side of this is that the majority of these attacks are not being carried out by new arrivals.
Agree that they certainly are not all being carried out by new entrants, but that doesn't mean we should open ourselves to increasing that likelihood either. The fact is ISIS can easily smuggle unidentifiable soldiers into Europe under the current system, and if they lie low and then spring up in a year or two then we are really going to be kicking ourselves for not taking more precautions.
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Old 20.07.2016, 15:59
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Re: An Islamic Terrorist Attack just Happened in (*Fill in the Blank*)

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The other side of this is that the majority of these attacks are not being carried out by new arrivals.
Correct. I find this graph quite useful as well. Seems something happened early 2000's that 'stirred the pot'.. what was that now?
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Old 20.07.2016, 16:34
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Re: Esto's great big thread for Discussion of Islamic Terrorism.

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Ahh, picture of knobs and wet pussies. I bet you really miss the school playground days don't you... life must be so much more complicated now with all this adult reasoning and stuff.
Bloody right I do - I used to be able to wear shorts everyday - quite a blessing in this weather I tell you.

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  #100  
Old 20.07.2016, 16:34
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Re: An Islamic Terrorist Attack just Happened in (*Fill in the Blank*)

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Correct. I find this graph quite useful as well. Seems something happened early 2000's that 'calmed things down'.. what was that now?
The ECHR which the Stormont agreement is based on. And probably allowed for the reduction of tensions in the Basque regions too? It's pretty cool how terrorism in western Europe has reduced since the early 2000's. Thanks.
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