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View Poll Results: What should the Swiss government do in your opinion?
They should go ahead with introducing permit applications and quotas for EEA citizens 31 34.83%
They should introduce very high quotas for EEA nationals that in practice won't have any impact 15 16.85%
They should call for a new referendum on the EU-Swiss relationsip as a whole 19 21.35%
They should ignore 2014's referendum and not do anything 8 8.99%
I don't care, I got my C-permit or citizenship 16 17.98%
Voters: 89. You may not vote on this poll

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  #21  
Old 22.07.2016, 00:20
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Re: Freedom of Movement for EU nationals: should the Swiss bend the knee?

I think the Brexit timing is unfortunate for Switzerland.

To maintain a tough line on the UK, they would need to be tough on CH. But I'm not sure the CH population would be happy to wait for Brexit before anything is done.
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  #22  
Old 22.07.2016, 00:32
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Re: Freedom of Movement for EU nationals: should the Swiss bend the knee?

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I think the Swiss should introduce the concept of two third super majorities like the US and many other countries to stop marginal wins destroying the country.
Absolutely not.
(I was very tempted to join in with Toms groan)
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  #23  
Old 22.07.2016, 00:45
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Re: Freedom of Movement for EU nationals: should the Swiss bend the knee?

I thought the whole issue was to be pushed down to the Cantons leaving the bilaterals intact. Then using the terms relating to specific regions and specific sectors to rule on Cantonal level. So the implementation of the vote will not change any of the bilateral engagements on Federal level and be absorbed lower down the political level.

Sure they have not yet all agreed on this solution..
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  #24  
Old 22.07.2016, 01:20
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I don't live in Berlin but the OP does, according to their bio. Berlin has a lot of English-speaking foreigners and a lot of those people might be regarded as not particularly integrated (whatever that even means). Just look at the tech start-up scene or the influx of young artists etc etc. English is never far away if you stick to the hipper districts. That is my experience of Berlin, anyway. Just to be clear, I don't think people in that situation are necessarily arrogant or poorly integrated at all. The OP, however, does. I merely parroted the language of the OP as a kind of low rent satire. I was pointing out that moving to Berlin was a strange choice if poorly integrated (whatever that even means) foreigners who swan around speaking English is an issue. This certainly seems to be an issue for the OP. Less so for me.

Arrggh, I was replying to this

Just asking, whereabouts in Berlin did you live? Lovely city but this?
I´m actually more irritated by those German helicopter parents with their huge bikes that have no clue how to drive one going from one organic shop to another whilst complaining how the teachers do not understand their princes and princesses.

Don´t get me wrong, Berlin is a great city but strange or arrogant people are everywhere.

Last edited by 3Wishes; 22.07.2016 at 06:15. Reason: merging consecutive replies
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  #25  
Old 22.07.2016, 05:42
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Re: Freedom of Movement for EU nationals: should the Swiss bend the knee?

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The Swiss already know the full consequences. Am I the only one who realises that if the people of Switzerland really wanted to vote on this issue again there would have been popular initiatives for signing to try and get another referendum on the subject? Has this happened? No. Not once in the 3 years since the vote was taken. Why? Because that's what the Swiss people want. The Swiss people knew, the Swiss people voted, now the government has to implement their decision. End of story.
I suppose for the Swiss, the bilaterals are recent. It's easy to remember what life was before them and easy to imagine life without them.

For the average person in the street, very little has changed. They were fine before the bilaterals, they'll be fine if they're removed.
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  #26  
Old 22.07.2016, 06:16
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Re: Freedom of Movement for EU nationals: should the Swiss bend the knee?

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I think the Swiss should introduce the concept of two third super majorities like the US and many other countries to stop marginal wins destroying the country.
I think Castro should start using emojis because his sarcasm is lost on some people. At least I hope it's sarcasm.
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  #27  
Old 22.07.2016, 10:46
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Re: Freedom of Movement for EU nationals: should the Swiss bend the knee?

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Berlin, there, a city completely free from arrogant Europeans. You know, the type who swan around speaking English and not integrating. Yeah, those ones. We've all seen them at their social media start-ups sipping Frappalattecinos in an ironic jam jar. Yeah, they hang around speaking English with no regard for people that don't understand it. We all know the type. You see them down the organic food market with their little bags. Some of them aren't even from here. But we've all seen them. Berlin has none of them at all.
I don't understand why you are telling this to me?
I have no love for Berlin (and I am moving out on the 31st of July).
I only came here because it was good for my career to get some experience from these cool start-ups, but one day I will move back to Switzerland and stay there forever.

Basically to Berlin I am what those arrogant foreigners who refuse to learn a local language are to Switzerland. Only here for the monies.
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  #28  
Old 22.07.2016, 10:49
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Re: Freedom of Movement for EU nationals: should the Swiss bend the knee?

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I don't understand why you are telling this to me?
I have no love for Berlin (and I am moving out on the 31st of July).
I only came here because it was good for my career to get some experience from these cool start-ups, but one day I will move back to Switzerland and stay there forever.

Basically to Berlin I am what those arrogant foreigners who refuse to learn a local language are to Switzerland. Only here for the monies.

Berlin is really an American city. As for Berliners, I've found them to be the least arrogant, in fact contrite and non-judgmental. Perhaps its the expats who display arrogance because they don't share the history of Berliners. In terms of arrogance, I would rate Berlin at about a 2-3, and Zurich at 8-9.
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  #29  
Old 22.07.2016, 10:50
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Re: Freedom of Movement for EU nationals: should the Swiss bend the knee?

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I don't understand why you are telling this to me?
I have no love for Berlin (and I am moving out on the 31st of July).
I only came here because it was good for my career to get some experience from these cool start-ups, but one day I will move back to Switzerland and stay there forever.

Basically to Berlin I am what those arrogant foreigners who refuse to learn a local language are to Switzerland. Only here for the monies.
Then you will have a lovely time here in Switzerland.....................
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  #30  
Old 22.07.2016, 11:18
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Re: Freedom of Movement for EU nationals: should the Swiss bend the knee?

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I think the Swiss should introduce the concept of two third super majorities like the US and many other countries to stop marginal wins destroying the country.
Current system has worked well for Switzerland until now, why change it?

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England should ^re-join EFTA and Scotland ahould become the KINGDOM OF SCOTLAND and join the EU
With this guy as king

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  #31  
Old 22.07.2016, 11:20
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Re: Freedom of Movement for EU nationals: should the Swiss bend the knee?

There is no use bending the knees if one does not know how to suck up properly.

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  #32  
Old 22.07.2016, 11:20
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Re: Freedom of Movement for EU nationals: should the Swiss bend the knee?

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The Swiss already know the full consequences. Am I the only one who realises that if the people of Switzerland really wanted to vote on this issue again there would have been popular initiatives for signing to try and get another referendum on the subject? Has this happened? No. Not once in the 3 years since the vote was taken. Why? Because that's what the Swiss people want. The Swiss people knew, the Swiss people voted, now the government has to implement their decision. End of story.
Sorry to say so, but you're wrong. RASA

And no, contrary to what you say it doesn't seem at all to be what the majority wants if representative polls are even remotely reliable, since after the vote they consistently show a 2/3 majority to prioritize the Bilaterals over word-for-word implementation of MEI if necessary. Initiatives to join EU have consistently been refused (two I if memory serves), the Bilaterale have just as consistently been voted yes on with zero No to five Yes (Bilaterale 1 in 2000, participation in Schengen/Dublin in 2005, extension of FMOP to the new EU members in 2005, financial support for the new eastern European members in 2006, keep FMOP and extend it to Bulgaria+Rumania in 2009).

One of the issues with the RASA Initiative though is that it won't be voted on for multiple years, whereas MEI is to be implemented by next february.

In my mind the implementation should be postponed until after the vote because everything else simply creates a back-forth-back-forth lawgiving process, but that's just me.
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  #33  
Old 22.07.2016, 11:25
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Re: Freedom of Movement for EU nationals: should the Swiss bend the knee?

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Sorry to say so, but you're wrong. RASA
Thanks for sharing this.
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  #34  
Old 22.07.2016, 11:30
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Re: Freedom of Movement for EU nationals: should the Swiss bend the knee?

Subliminal messages here. Now... I...must...eat... Berliner
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  #35  
Old 22.07.2016, 11:31
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Re: Freedom of Movement for EU nationals: should the Swiss bend the knee?

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Subliminal messages here. Now... I...must...eat... Berliner
Well thank you They are called Pfannkuchen or Krapfen in Berlin
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  #36  
Old 22.07.2016, 11:38
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Re: Freedom of Movement for EU nationals: should the Swiss bend the knee?

Oh god, I shouldn't have checked their meaning more images in my mind, the one with plum jam filling
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  #37  
Old 22.07.2016, 12:20
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Re: Freedom of Movement for EU nationals: should the Swiss bend the knee?

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The time is approaching when the Swiss government will have to respect the vote of the Swiss people in the 2014 referendum.

Given the Swiss government was and is against what the Swiss people voted for, and given the risk of losing access to the Single Market, what do you think the Swiss government should do?

. . .
The Swiss, as long time and strong proponents of direct democracy, have an important message here to give the British in the face of the BRexit vote.
1. Ensure that strong weight is given, and is seen to be given, to the direct democratic process, and the more inconsequential the matters delegated back to the voting public are, the stronger is the weight that should be given to them.
2. If anything of importance does accidentally slip through, attempt to ignore it or delay it through endless discussions until it is no longer of relevance.
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  #38  
Old 22.07.2016, 16:47
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Re: Freedom of Movement for EU nationals: should the Swiss bend the knee?

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I suppose for the Swiss, the bilaterals are recent. It's easy to remember what life was before them and easy to imagine life without them.

For the average person in the street, very little has changed. They were fine before the bilaterals, they'll be fine if they're removed.
I believe the Swiss economy gained a lot from the bilateral as Switzerland was able to trade with their biggest trade partners in a cost efficient and fast way. The average Joe might not see it and prefers to bitch about immigrants, but cancelling the bilaterale will affect everyone... the MNCs are already complaining that they cannot get as many non EU specialists into the country as they need. The SVP argues "why don't you train the Swiss instead" but we all know that you cannot have the supply in highly specialized folks for anything else than banks (where the rich kids like to work at) out of nothing...

I sincerely hope that the EU is growing a spine and in the face of brexit does it look good. If CH leaves the bilaterales do I predict the economy to shrink by 5-10 percent (probably less in Tom's village... but nobody cares about Ticino anyway...)
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  #39  
Old 22.07.2016, 18:04
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Re: Freedom of Movement for EU nationals: should the Swiss bend the knee?

I don't really like the idea of selling out ones principles for economic gain. Makes one feel dirty and cheap. I realise a lot of people are ready to do that, even more so on behalf for someone else, and advise others to do so. In these kinds of propositions, I love telling them to f**k off. I've done it many times before, and have gained more than I've lost in the process. I would have more respect for Switzerland if they chose Switzerland over the proposition to sell itself out.
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  #40  
Old 22.07.2016, 18:27
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Re: Freedom of Movement for EU nationals: should the Swiss bend the knee?

I cant think of a single example in history of a country gaining in the long term by choosing to increase its social and economic isolation.

With the bilaterals ending, it will be interesting to see how one of the most advanced economies reacts.
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