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View Poll Results: What should the Swiss government do in your opinion?
They should go ahead with introducing permit applications and quotas for EEA citizens 31 34.83%
They should introduce very high quotas for EEA nationals that in practice won't have any impact 15 16.85%
They should call for a new referendum on the EU-Swiss relationsip as a whole 19 21.35%
They should ignore 2014's referendum and not do anything 8 8.99%
I don't care, I got my C-permit or citizenship 16 17.98%
Voters: 89. You may not vote on this poll

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  #101  
Old 16.12.2016, 15:21
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Re: Freedom of Movement for EU nationals: should the Swiss bend the knee?

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Again the same little game - just this one bilateral.... except this time the game is known.
after brexit, i'm not sure that would get the votes.
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  #102  
Old 16.12.2016, 16:41
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Re: Freedom of Movement for EU nationals: should the Swiss bend the knee?

And in another world we have "SVP won’t call referendum on mass immigration initiative" according to Party president Albert Rösti on 8th December.

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“We made a clear decision at a party leadership meeting not to call a referendum,” Rösti told the programme.

“We would be asking people to vote on something that would achieve nothing,” he said, referring to opposition in parliament to implementing tough immigration quotas.
Source
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  #103  
Old 16.12.2016, 16:45
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Re: Freedom of Movement for EU nationals: should the Swiss bend the knee?

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And in another world we have "SVP won’t call referendum on mass immigration initiative" according to Party president Albert Rösti on 8th December.



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They're not. They're threatening to call an initiative regarding Free Movement itself.
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  #104  
Old 16.12.2016, 23:02
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Re: Freedom of Movement for EU nationals: should the Swiss bend the knee?

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They're not. They're threatening to call an initiative regarding Free Movement itself.
So they are happy with the status of non-EU immigration?
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  #105  
Old 17.12.2016, 02:23
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Re: Freedom of Movement for EU nationals: should the Swiss bend the knee?

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They're not. They're threatening to call an initiative regarding Free Movement itself.
So far it's Auns only, AFAIK.

One crucial point is that some of those who are opposed strongest against the Bilaterale are among those profiting most from them: Farmers. Without the Bilaterale, especially if demanded quota were implemented, it would probably be much more difficult (certainyl more tedious) to hire Polish slavesworkers during the summer for wages far below 4k per month with the ease it's been happening for about fifteen years.

Double standards at their best. Especially considering that it's SVP who demands lean government despite the fact that the average farm gets half its revenues from Bern. And that's still ignoring the subsidies in the form of tax reductions, interest-free loans, and probably many more means.

I think if the SVP launched an Initiative to that end it would be the biggest favor they could do to those in favor of the Bilaterale: With just about any vote you got at least 30% "No", a hurdle the RASA initiative would have to overcome otherwise. This may well be the main reason why Blocher said in a recent interview that a Duchsetzungsinitiative for the MEI wouldn't be the appropiate tool.

However all of this doesn't take away the problem that there's a crucial contradiction in place. The only path to an unambiguous declaration of will is another vote: Kill the bilaterale, or favor MEI over the Bilaterale (or vice versa), yes or no?
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  #106  
Old 17.12.2016, 08:30
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Re: Freedom of Movement for EU nationals: should the Swiss bend the knee?

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So they are happy with the status of non-EU immigration?
I assume so as the MEI was never about non-EU immigration, only EU. After all that's what they were after, the same quota limit system on EU nationals as already exist for non-EUs.
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  #107  
Old 17.12.2016, 10:14
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Re: Freedom of Movement for EU nationals: should the Swiss bend the knee?

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I assume so as the MEI was never about non-EU immigration, only EU. After all that's what they were after, the same quota limit system on EU nationals as already exist for non-EUs.
Their purpose is to break the bilaterals and their best chance of doing it is with the MEI.
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  #108  
Old 17.12.2016, 11:12
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Re: Freedom of Movement for EU nationals: should the Swiss bend the knee?

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Their purpose is to break the bilaterals and their best chance of doing it is with the MEI.
As mentioned by Urs Max the initiative about stopping free movement is currently led by AUNS not the SVP, look here.

The AUNS was founded on June 19, 1986. Its founders were Christoph Blocher of the SVP and Otto Fischer of the FDP.
Since April 2014, Lukas Reimann has been the president of AUNS. Reimann is a member of the Swiss People's Party (SVP) and a National Council member.
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  #109  
Old 17.12.2016, 12:08
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Re: Freedom of Movement for EU nationals: should the Swiss bend the knee?

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So they are happy with the status of non-EU immigration?
It seems so as they can control how many permits are given an to whom.
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One crucial point is that some of those who are opposed strongest against the Bilaterale are among those profiting most from them: Farmers. Without the Bilaterale, especially if demanded quota were implemented, it would probably be much more difficult (certainyl more tedious) to hire Polish slavesworkers during the summer for wages far below 4k per month with the ease it's been happening for about fifteen years.

Why? I don't believe that.before the free movement there was tha A permit exactly for this reason. It wasn't Polish workers but Portuguese Spanish and Italians.

The A permit was Ok for some as it was a seasonal permit for 9 months. Then these seasonal workers would go home.

The A permit was not ok for others as they complained A permit holders didn't integrate and these people were being exploited.

I imagine if they stop the FMoP they will go back to something like the A permit.
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  #110  
Old 20.12.2016, 08:22
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Re: Freedom of Movement for EU nationals: should the Swiss bend the knee?

This is a disgrace.
Works for me but it is not what the people voted for.
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  #111  
Old 03.01.2017, 09:05
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Re: Freedom of Movement for EU nationals: should the Swiss bend the knee?

The Swiss are still for controlling EU-citizens immigration but also for keeping the Bilaterals.
http://www.romandie.com/news/Les-Sui..._RP/765776.rom
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  #112  
Old 03.01.2017, 11:39
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Re: Freedom of Movement for EU nationals: should the Swiss bend the knee?

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Why? I don't believe that.before the free movement there was tha A permit exactly for this reason. It wasn't Polish workers but Portuguese Spanish and Italians.
SVP is the strongest opponent, the farmers are among their core members.

Farmwork is very seasonal, often workers are needed for just a few months. The current guidlines mandate 3150.- a month for farm aids based on 54hrs/week (about 13.- brutto per hour).

Contrary to before the Bilaterale the workers don't even need permits now: Hire them for 3 months (less one day) and send them back afterwards, replace them with the next guy. One article I saw (probably in the Tagesanzeiger) mentioned a specialised Polish recruiting service charges around 200CHF per worker.
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  #113  
Old 03.01.2017, 13:54
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Re: Freedom of Movement for EU nationals: should the Swiss bend the knee?

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This is a disgrace.
Works for me but it is not what the people voted for.
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The Swiss are still for controlling EU-citizens immigration but also for keeping the Bilaterals.
http://www.romandie.com/news/Les-Sui..._RP/765776.rom
The "people" did not vote to cancel the bilaterals!
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  #114  
Old 03.01.2017, 15:04
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Re: Freedom of Movement for EU nationals: should the Swiss bend the knee?

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The "people" did not vote to cancel the bilaterals!
So the big question is what they will vote if they have to choose between either both or nothing.
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  #115  
Old 03.01.2017, 15:44
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Re: Freedom of Movement for EU nationals: should the Swiss bend the knee?

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So the big question is what they will vote if they have to choose between either both or nothing.
According to a blick.ch article from yesterday on a poll (1000 polled but presumably non-representative) 47% are still pro MEI vs 43% against (10% undecided).

Conclusively 44% are against RASA, the Volksinitiative that wants to undo MEI, vs 37% for. However a numerous 19% are undecided.

In both cases above, tho undecided could relatively easily revert the outcome.

However, if having to chose, only 41% would favor MEI over the Bilaterale vs 54% pro Bilaterale (5% undecided). Rather few are undecided here, and the relations are consistent with previous actual votes.

If such an "either or" vote happens (I think it's necessary to avoid blocking foreign policy for years) the big question will be how it's phrased as the Ständemehr may well be too high a hurdle. So having one "for" the Bilaterale rather than "against" MEI may be a crucial point. At the same time, if it's percieved as subterfuge it may well backfire regardless of current and previous answers.
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  #116  
Old 03.01.2017, 15:52
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Re: Freedom of Movement for EU nationals: should the Swiss bend the knee?

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According to a blick.ch article from yesterday on a poll (1000 polled but presumably non-representative) 47% are still pro MEI vs 43% against (10% undecided).

Conclusively 44% are against RASA, the Volksinitiative that wants to undo MEI, vs 37% for. However a numerous 19% are undecided.

In both cases above, tho undecided could relatively easily revert the outcome.

However, if having to chose, only 41% would favor MEI over the Bilaterale vs 54% pro Bilaterale (5% undecided). Rather few are undecided here, and the relations are consistent with previous actual votes.

If such an "either or" vote happens (I think it's necessary to avoid blocking foreign policy for years) the big question will be how it's phrased as the Ständemehr may well be too high a hurdle. So having one "for" the Bilaterale rather than "against" MEI may be a crucial point. At the same time, if it's percieved as subterfuge it may well backfire regardless of current and previous answers.
All these numbers are also in the article I already provided (in French).
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  #117  
Old 03.01.2017, 16:20
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Re: Freedom of Movement for EU nationals: should the Swiss bend the knee?

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According to a blick.ch article from yesterday on a poll (1000 polled but presumably non-representative) 47% are still pro MEI vs 43% against (10% undecided).

Conclusively 44% are against RASA, the Volksinitiative that wants to undo MEI, vs 37% for. However a numerous 19% are undecided.

In both cases above, tho undecided could relatively easily revert the outcome.

However, if having to chose, only 41% would favor MEI over the Bilaterale vs 54% pro Bilaterale (5% undecided). Rather few are undecided here, and the relations are consistent with previous actual votes.

If such an "either or" vote happens (I think it's necessary to avoid blocking foreign policy for years) the big question will be how it's phrased as the Ständemehr may well be too high a hurdle. So having one "for" the Bilaterale rather than "against" MEI may be a crucial point. At the same time, if it's percieved as subterfuge it may well backfire regardless of current and previous answers.
Hmmm, is this something I have to start thinking about? Will the polling come? So far I tried to keep out of it.
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  #118  
Old 03.01.2017, 17:32
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Re: Freedom of Movement for EU nationals: should the Swiss bend the knee?

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All these numbers are also in the article I already provided (in French).
Can't be bothered to dig out my French when German or English info is available.

Thb I didn't check before but it's better anyway to use the source (provided it's reasanobly condensated) rather than some synopsis that may contain newly-introduced errors.

As for "it's not what people voted for" it actually is what they want. This is shown by the clear majority for the Bilaterale over MEI. Obviously a significant numer believed Blocher's lie.
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Hmmm, is this something I have to start thinking about? Will the polling come? So far I tried to keep out of it.
There will definitely be some kind of second vote, either on RASA or some counter-proposal or both.
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  #119  
Old 03.01.2017, 17:51
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Re: Freedom of Movement for EU nationals: should the Swiss bend the knee?

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SVP is the strongest opponent, the farmers are among their core members.

Farmwork is very seasonal, often workers are needed for just a few months. The current guidlines mandate 3150.- a month for farm aids based on 54hrs/week (about 13.- brutto per hour).

Contrary to before the Bilaterale the workers don't even need permits now: Hire them for 3 months (less one day) and send them back afterwards, replace them with the next guy. One article I saw (probably in the Tagesanzeiger) mentioned a specialised Polish recruiting service charges around 200CHF per worker.
90 work days is over 4 months for most people.
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  #120  
Old 03.01.2017, 19:26
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Re: Freedom of Movement for EU nationals: should the Swiss bend the knee?

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SVP is the strongest opponent, the farmers are among their core members.

Farmwork is very seasonal, often workers are needed for just a few months. The current guidlines mandate 3150.- a month for farm aids based on 54hrs/week (about 13.- brutto per hour).

Contrary to before the Bilaterale the workers don't even need permits now: Hire them for 3 months (less one day) and send them back afterwards, replace them with the next guy. One article I saw (probably in the Tagesanzeiger) mentioned a specialised Polish recruiting service charges around 200CHF per worker.
Winter resorts also have many seasonal workers. But most I encountered back in the day were hotel and waitstaff in Geneva. But certainly also construction as they didn't work in the winter.

They had 9 month A permits and generally they were quite OK with that. They went 'home' for the three month break and most always planned to retire back home.

I think that the Euro has made it more difficult as Spain, Portugal and Italy are all more expensive and it's more difficult to keep two homes.
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