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View Poll Results: What should the Swiss government do in your opinion?
They should go ahead with introducing permit applications and quotas for EEA citizens 31 34.83%
They should introduce very high quotas for EEA nationals that in practice won't have any impact 15 16.85%
They should call for a new referendum on the EU-Swiss relationsip as a whole 19 21.35%
They should ignore 2014's referendum and not do anything 8 8.99%
I don't care, I got my C-permit or citizenship 16 17.98%
Voters: 89. You may not vote on this poll

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  #121  
Old 03.01.2017, 20:16
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Re: Freedom of Movement for EU nationals: should the Swiss bend the knee?

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Obviously a significant numer believed Blocher's lie.
What 'lie'?

Tom
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  #122  
Old 03.01.2017, 20:23
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Re: Freedom of Movement for EU nationals: should the Swiss bend the knee?

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What 'lie'?

Tom
That voting for MEI would not damage the bilaterals.
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  #123  
Old 16.01.2017, 14:12
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Re: Freedom of Movement for EU nationals: should the Swiss bend the knee?

So let me rephrase the question of the poll: did the Swiss bend the knee or did they manage to outsmart both SVP and the EU, saving the bilaterals but also somehow controlling immigration from the EU?
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  #124  
Old 16.01.2017, 14:20
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Re: Freedom of Movement for EU nationals: should the Swiss bend the knee?

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So let me rephrase the question of the poll: did the Swiss bend the knee or did they manage to outsmart both SVP and the EU, saving the bilaterals but also somehow controlling immigration from the EU?
Either way they ignored the result of the referendum, which is the real scandal here. The reason being that Swiss politicians were worried over any reaction from the EU. I would call that a bending the knee.

Austria may now ask for a similar deal as Switzerland which could make things interesting.
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  #125  
Old 16.01.2017, 14:28
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Re: Freedom of Movement for EU nationals: should the Swiss bend the knee?

They bent the knee. They're not use to confrontations, and so appease bullies.
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  #126  
Old 16.01.2017, 15:41
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Re: Freedom of Movement for EU nationals: should the Swiss bend the knee?

What are the practical measures that will come into force at the end of February? Will it be more difficult for an EU citizen to get a job?
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  #127  
Old 16.01.2017, 15:51
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Re: Freedom of Movement for EU nationals: should the Swiss bend the knee?

Not really. Employers are encouraged to hire the locals, but if they don't have the required skills it won't make any difference on the hiring front.
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  #128  
Old 16.01.2017, 15:57
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Re: Freedom of Movement for EU nationals: should the Swiss bend the knee?

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So let me rephrase the question of the poll: did the Swiss bend the knee or did they manage to outsmart both SVP and the EU, saving the bilaterals but also somehow controlling immigration from the EU?
Neither, the can got kicked down the road in awaiting of a clear statement.

As things stand there's a fundamental contradiction:
Depending on how far you look back there were very many federal votes that confirmed FMOP (once the Bilaterale were effective) and refused limitation of immigration. Five, if memory serves, were explicit confirmations of FMOP and/or the Bilaterale. See the list in this article, unfortunately sorting by date doesn't work.

On the other hand there's one single vote where a razor-thin majority that demands action threatening the Bilaterale. Considering that one major issue, Blocher's claim that the Bilaterale would be renegotiated, was a lie it's fair to wait for a clear vote.

Why did the SVP not initiate a Referendum, force another vote, on the way MEI is implemented if it's really such a bad implementation? Because it was a can't-win situation for them:
- if the MEI implementation got confirmed they'd lost the Referendum, no more grounds to bash evil government
- if the MEI implementation got refused (the Referndum confirmed) we'd be no wiser than we are now

It's much better for the SVP to wait and keep milking the situation if it turns out that immigration continues the way it did. Otherwise they'll simply issue the next Volksinitiative to keep hammering the iron. It's the topic that gets them their votes after all so whatever happens we haven't seen the last.
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  #129  
Old 16.01.2017, 16:08
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Re: Freedom of Movement for EU nationals: should the Swiss bend the knee?

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Either way they ignored the result of the referendum, which is the real scandal here.
Nothing new, nothing astonishing. Traditional and usual Swiss politics. It has been like this since 1848. If the politician did not like a change of the constitution they either a) just did nothing at all (that is why the MEI has the 3 year clause) b) watered it down the best they can. Some people are furious but in the end most are quite happy.

Just an example: Adding Art. 34quinquies Abs. 4 (maternity insurance and leave) to the 1878 constitution was approved by 70% of the all male voters in 1945. The actual law was implemented only in 2004!
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  #130  
Old 16.01.2017, 17:11
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Re: Freedom of Movement for EU nationals: should the Swiss bend the knee?

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Nothing new, nothing astonishing. Traditional and usual Swiss politics. It has been like this since 1848. If the politician did not like a change of the constitution they either a) just did nothing at all (that is why the MEI has the 3 year clause) b) watered it down the best they can. Some people are furious but in the end most are quite happy.

Just an example: Adding Art. 34quinquies Abs. 4 (maternity insurance and leave) to the 1878 constitution was approved by 70% of the all male voters in 1945. The actual law was implemented only in 2004!
I don't think the two situations are comparable.

WRT MEI it's clear that there will be a second vote soon-ish (in the coming years probably) it's just not clear yet what the proposition will be: Either it will be on the RASA Initiative, which says to undo the changes done by the MEI, or some alternative proposition to a similar end.
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  #131  
Old 17.01.2017, 13:44
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Re: Freedom of Movement for EU nationals: should the Swiss bend the knee?

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They bent the knee. They're not use to confrontations, and so appease bullies.
I don't think there was any bullying involved.
The EU was simply waiting to see if they would have to trigger the guilotine or not.
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  #132  
Old 08.04.2017, 20:29
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Re: Freedom of Movement for EU nationals: should the Swiss bend the knee?

EU and Switzerland to reopen trade and political talks

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The EU and Switzerland agreed today to reopen talks on upgrading trade and political ties, following Bern’s retreat last year on a controversial immigration quota that highlighted the difficulties Britain will face over Brexit.
...
What is this about?
More biletarerals? A successor to the bilaterals?
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  #133  
Old 08.04.2017, 20:34
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Re: Freedom of Movement for EU nationals: should the Swiss bend the knee?

CH is not fully member of single market.

It's only participation and sometimes Swiss firms face challenges.

But I doubt CH will join the Eurozone or freedom of movement.

I believe there is no room for compromise.
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  #134  
Old 08.04.2017, 20:38
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Re: Freedom of Movement for EU nationals: should the Swiss bend the knee?

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EU and Switzerland to reopen trade and political talks


What is this about?
More biletarerals? A successor to the bilaterals?
It is a complicated business.
Overall, around 100 bilateral agreements currently exist between the EU and Switzerland.

There is always room for more
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  #135  
Old 08.04.2017, 21:08
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Re: Freedom of Movement for EU nationals: should the Swiss bend the knee?

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EU and Switzerland to reopen trade and political talks


What is this about?
More biletarerals? A successor to the bilaterals?
Looks like it (German). They want our money for the Eastern EU countries .... we - for reasons I don't understand - seem to want to export electricity to the EU?!
Plus .... plus .... plus .... a lot of work for the SVP ahead, it seems
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  #136  
Old 08.04.2017, 22:45
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Re: Freedom of Movement for EU nationals: should the Swiss bend the knee?

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CH is not fully member of single market.

It's only participation and sometimes Swiss firms face challenges.

But I doubt CH will join the Eurozone or freedom of movement.

I believe there is no room for compromise.
You seem to be way behind!

We already participate in FMOP, talking are restarting because we backed down!

And BTW we also contribute to the EU structural fund and whole host of other things. Please catch up!
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  #137  
Old 09.04.2017, 15:22
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Re: Freedom of Movement for EU nationals: should the Swiss bend the knee?

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You seem to be way behind!

We already participate in FMOP, talking are restarting because we backed down!

And BTW we also contribute to the EU structural fund and whole host of other things. Please catch up!
Would be cool if the SVP called another referendum that clearly stated that the Swiss people have to choose between keeping the status quo or reject both FMOP and the bilaterals and then they lost majorly.
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  #138  
Old 09.04.2017, 19:35
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Re: Freedom of Movement for EU nationals: should the Swiss bend the knee?

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Would be cool if the SVP called another referendum that clearly stated that the Swiss people have to choose between keeping the status quo or reject both FMOP and the bilaterals and then they lost majorly.
I thought something like that failed recently, they only managed to raise 13K of the 50K signatures needed.
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  #139  
Old 09.04.2017, 19:49
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Re: Freedom of Movement for EU nationals: should the Swiss bend the knee?

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Would be cool if the SVP called another referendum that clearly stated that the Swiss people have to choose between keeping the status quo or reject both FMOP and the bilaterals and then they lost majorly.
They wouldn't lose.

I would clearly vote to dump both FMOP and the bilaterals.

Tom
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Old 09.04.2017, 21:38
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Re: Freedom of Movement for EU nationals: should the Swiss bend the knee?

Yes, we all know YOU would

People here are shaken by what is happening with UK and Brexit. The UDC/SVP have been so soundly beaten in Valais and in Neuchâtel last week-end - totally destroyed. Great news.

But the title is t'other way round - should the EU bend the knees to little Switzerland? The answer is a clear NO- same for the UK. BoJo has already admited that they cannot limit freedom of movement for many years. Not because of EU retaliation- but because the NHS is losing EU key staff in droves with no-one applying to replace them, with the same happening in many industries, including agriculture. Refusing to make a quick decision about the rights of EU citizens already in UK being able to stay- and instead using them as bargaining chips- has made EU people in UK insecure, unwelcomed and unappreciated- what with the £ having plumetted in last few years (many try to save as much as poss to send back home to families or to be able to buy education or a little house back home) - just not attractive any more.
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