New referendum coming up?

https://www.rts.ch/info/suisse/91998...-l-europe.html

Great, so we can vote no again, and again, and again, as these poilticians are all clearly mentally disabled!

Screw the EU!

Tom

Relax. We just vote no and no again ..... two sides can play this game

<<An die Arbeit muss der neue Aussenminister Cassis, der bisher durch Abwesenheit und unbedarfte Äusserungen glänzte>> I read here. What's up with the guy?!?

With luck we can achieve the same ex-EU success as Brexit

Swiss people should hurry up and join the EU fast!

Switzerland is already a mini-EU with people of Germany, France and Italy.

It'll be a perfect member of EU otherwise it'll slide to the side of UK, Russia, China.

Now I know why you got all these red pebbles
Don't worry, I never hand out any of those

the scare technique . You forgot to add "lieber tot als rot" an other old one.

<<It'll be a perfect member of EU>> now that IS scary
Don't worry about China and Russia, they don't want us, we argue too much

What will the *new* question be?
Is it still being discussed?

Actually low GBP and lower immigration is good for those not in the middle class. Less competition for jobs, easier to compete with imports, less competition for real estate. The right is B.S. except for the top guys, everybody else is money driven (again, the less of these the better for those who voted for brexit).
But, anyway, the immigration from other, non EU countries, still continues.

Yes, but they can't stop that.
Looking these days at employees in low skilled jobs in diverse places - obviously work permits for non-EU are not an issue, otherwise one can't explain the phenomenon..Hypocrisy at its best, but so be it.
Why do we still discuss this subject anyway.

Funny how people always talk about immigration when they talk about EU.
Immigration / free movement of people is the least problem with EU. In fact, it is no problem at all, it is as it always was here: You got a job? Welcome. You don't? Sorry mate.
We have always dealt with immigration - in fact, try to keep up with us where percentage of foreigners is concerned. And the foreigners here are not sitting on the street starving!!
We have 24.9% foreigners living here. With or without EU - in fact, less people came in the past years over the past few years - so forget EU and Schengen.

EU is about politics, manipulation, regulation, observation and suppression of people. NOT INTERESTED, okay?

And if their system is so great, why do they want Switzerland - a non-member - to pay a billion for the Eastern-Europeans?
Anyway, WTF are they gonna do when we are part of them, f***ed like them and can no longer be milked?

Funny, to me it seems like we don't talk about immigration as we really should, see Odile's older post who seems to have a more informed and different opinion, albeit re. Uk.. .

But what exactly will you, curley, pay and to whom? Those money EU is asking for is what other Western countries pay too, and they payed for a few good decades to Southern European countries also. They still do, rumours say. They are meant to compensate for Switzerland's access to a very large market, if you don't believe me check the trade balance between CH and different countries for further references and see in whose' favour inclines.. Aren't they going back to the Swiss banks through multiple businesses CH is doing in the whole EU? As a basically equal, if not more equal so to speak - member? The same discussion is still very hot in the UK and nobody seems to understand why EU will toughen up their approach. As in - you can't have your cake and eat it. People need to finally come to terms to that.

But back to our diatribe, what exactly willyou, curley, personally pay and to whom? I don't ask myself where my husband's taxes go, or whom will benefit from his work in top high-tech projects in a Swiss company. I know for a fact that we wouldn't be here if we didn't contribute. Same goes for bigger players. Those money EU is asking from CH is basically what every member country is required to pay in order to be part of the club, for the advantages mentioned before. If it wasn't profitable for the rich (and I mean big tax payers here) EU didn't exist. Anyway, some of them will go into structural funds which were payed for a few good decades to Southern European countries too, as mentioned earlier. Lots of money still go there, if less in structural funds more in agricultural aids for instance and nobody is flinging their wings in hot air isn't it...or because of Africa aids or other funds for the developing countries across the globe.

Just so you know, not that I believe you'd care, but for the sake of clarity - I don't want CH to become a EU member either, they don't need that. My main reason would be losing its (political) independency - a small country works enormously through their whole history to even achieve some things a few other countries take for granted. They can continue to have agreements like Norway for instance. Or whatever, but let's not transform this discussion into something debated from a single angle.


I'll leave it at that, this discussion is repeating itself over and over on this forum and people will never grab any opinion different than their own.

Immigration and globalization disproportionately and negatively impacts the lowest earners. So they rebelled in UK; doesn't mean brexit is a net gain for them, but globalization and immigration are a net loss.

That was a weird post of yours. But you folks keep talking about Brexit when the subject is Switzerland and compare apples with oranges .... while we'll just go on dealing with the situation.

Actually, it crossed my mind this morning that if I were old enough the EU behaviour would remind me of the "times of Wilhelm Tell" So the interesting bit to observe will be, did we maintain the spirit

My post wasn't about Brexit. My post was just a reply to a weird post of yours where you seem to not understand why CH is asked to pay money for those pesky Eastern European countries. CH, although not a member, benefits from the same advantages as if it were a full EU member, and same things are required money wise, meaning to...contribute. And...we're back to where the discussion began thus completing the never ending circle of EF discussions on EU and similar topics.

On the contrary, over the next ten to fifteen years people on low or fixed incomes will take the biggest hit right across the boards. The weak pound has already started to cause a cost of living increase that is not matched by wage increases. An economic contraction in the early years after BREXIT will see a fall off in tax revenues resulting in a reduction in social services and the ancillary type of jobs that lower income people rely on. Furthermore competing as a third country will see further pressure on wage levels impacting the jobs that remain. There is no a single example in economic history where people on lower incomes did not take the biggest hit. There is absolutely nothing to suggest it will be any different this time.

The only question is how will that voter backlash develop, what kind of government it will deliver up and will that government hinder the economic recovery or not.

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"There is no passion to be found playing small - in settling for a life that is less than the one you are capable of living." - Nelson Mandela

You have to pay for the right of Swiss companies to exploit Eastern Europe like German, Dutch and Danish companies do.

You should get out of your High Swiss Castle from time to time and see that not all of the EU is f***ed, there are several countries with great strong economies.
Are you afraid that Switzerland would end up like Greece or Bulgaria?
I believe Switzerland would end up like Austria or the Netherlands.


Anyway, from my own personal point of view, the reasons why we want to force Switzerland to decide either a clear YES (in the EEA) or a clear NO (no Bilaterals, no nothing) are 2:

1. Too much complexity for such a small market. After a decision has been made in Brussels, there begins the new phase of trying to convince the Swiss to adopt it. Every other member of the EU or the EEA has to adopt it sooner or later, or face fines from the Commission.
The EEA allows for some exceptions, for example Norway and Iceland have exceptions on fisheries. Likewise, Switzerland could negotiate certain exceptions that would be enshrined in its accession treaty, but for everything else it would be obliged to apply EU decisions as they arrive (fax democracy).

2. Although the Bilaterals have worked fine for both sides, there is a belief that they have worked better for Switzerland. Therefore we have created a win-win situation where one party wins much more than the other. And on top of that it gets to tell the other party that it is better and smarter for having struck this deal. Which makes party B willing to sacrifice its relatively small gain from the Bilaterals hoping to strike an even better deal, or at least, get to tell party A "I told you so" when it takes bigger damages from the collapse of the deal.

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Moving in and out of Switzerland (because it's fun).
Currently away. Miss the Alps.

Do you have a source for your claims? It is a regular theme for populists but do the facts support it?

Here is a report from the London School of Economics showing the benefits of immigration.

There have been a number of studies over the years with the same conclusions.
An Analysis of the Impacts of Migration by the UK Migration Advisory Committee shows no negative impact on UK born by EU immigration but there is a negative impact by non EU immigrants.

So ironically people who voted Brexit to decrease the EU immigrants have actually made their situation worse assuming the result is more non-EU immigrants!

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It is naive to assume my posts are my own work

Pesky? Putting words into my mouth?

Interesting how you picked one single sentence from that post of mine - the least important one. Taking it personally?
What more could I do than put what was important in that one in blue?

<<And...we're back to where the discussion began thus completing the never ending circle of EF discussions on EU and similar topics.>>
ROFL, that's how discussions are. It ends when Switzerland becomes a member (Lord help us ) or has an acceptable, fair neighborhood agreement.
Trouble is, we're - mainly - arguing with Germans here, so yes, I will probably not live to see a result.

Anyway - as to the thread title - I already linked the info that this free movement thingy with EU has not affected us really (never mind Blocher's shouts) as in the past years even less people moved in than before.

Again, how is Brexit relevant?

Because Brexit is a living and only example of what happens to a country that cuts its links to the EU.
No doubt it will be a huge success