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-   -   Freedom of Movement for EU nationals: should the Swiss bend the knee? (https://www.englishforum.ch/international-affairs-politics/257272-freedom-movement-eu-nationals-should-swiss-bend-knee.html)

lewton 21.07.2016 17:30

Freedom of Movement for EU nationals: should the Swiss bend the knee?
 
The time is approaching when the Swiss government will have to respect the vote of the Swiss people in the 2014 referendum.

Given the Swiss government was and is against what the Swiss people voted for, and given the risk of losing access to the Single Market, what do you think the Swiss government should do?

Some relevant stuff to read:
EU tells Swiss no single market access if no free movement of citizens
Swiss Get EU Immigration Vote Do-Over Some Britons Hope for

Troublawesome 21.07.2016 19:48

Re: Freedom of Movement for EU nationals: should the Swiss bend the knee?
 
From what I read that referendum was so marginal it was a joke sth like 50.3% and participation was low because people didn't believe it would pass.

The decision itself is void, Switzerland cannot introduce quotas and stay in the EU so the referendum makes no sense.

My proposal is to make a referendum about whether Switzerland should keep the EU treaties and push for maximum participation. That is the right question.

If they push for quotas and get kicked out it will be unfair for all those who want to be in and were never asked. Also for those who wanted quotas but stay in EU.

They should finally raise the referendum limit to 500,000. It was ok to be 100k for the last century but as the population has grown so much they're calling referenda asked by a very small percentage of the population and will end up discrediting the whole thing.

Urs Max 21.07.2016 19:49

Re: Freedom of Movement for EU nationals: should the Swiss bend the knee?
 
Rumor has it that Swiss government is in most intense negotiations with Nicola Sturgeon, Theresa May, and the rest of Scotish and UK governments.

As you may already know, Scotland has gotten between hammer and anvil when the UK accepted Brexit, because the Scots want to stay in the EU. Knowing how hard-headed they can be, May is quite concerned and looking for an amicable solution, a way out if you will.

Switzerland on the other hand is completely surrounded by EU countries but doesn't want to join the club, a really awkward position for both which got even worsened not too long ago when Swiss government had to ask the EU to return their application to join them.

The obvious and completely logic solution to all those issues is that Switzerland should simply swap position with Scotland, they're a perfect match. EU would finally get rid of that alien spot in their midst, Scotland could stay in the EU, Switzerland would finally get rid of the permanent pressure to join, and England would get a much more powerful ally than Scotland could ever be.

What's more, because Switzerland already has 25% foreigners, the few the English want to get rid of could certainly get exported to us, repaint them if necessary to not induce more commotion than absolutely necessary, perhaps send some expats back in return.

So here you go:
Vote for the swap in the upcoming vote and all problems will be solved. Forever. Extragrosses Pfadfinderehrenwort.

st2lemans 21.07.2016 19:54

Re: Freedom of Movement for EU nationals: should the Swiss bend the knee?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Troublawesome (Post 2627185)
The decision itself is void, Switzerland cannot introduce quotas and stay in the EU so the referendum makes no sense.

Clue, get one. :rolleyes:

Switzerland is NOT in the EU. ;);)

Tom

Troublawesome 21.07.2016 20:02

Re: Freedom of Movement for EU nationals: should the Swiss bend the knee?
 
Tom you're the definition of the term 'old-fart', or more accurately a NIMBY. The guy who has it all nice and comfy and wants no one else to come here in his village and take it away.

Wow you corrected me that Switzerland is not in the EU, who would have known...because you didn't understand that I meant all the bilaterals and adoption of EU legislation right?

Nothing useful, nothing informative just a good old typical troll reply from you as always. Added to my ignore list along with Phos, you deserve to be next to each other.

st2lemans 21.07.2016 20:12

Re: Freedom of Movement for EU nationals: should the Swiss bend the knee?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Troublawesome (Post 2627193)
Tom you're the definition of the term 'old-fart', or more accurately a NIMBY. The guy who has it all nice and comfy and wants no one else to come here in his village and take it away.

Who, in their right mind, would? :confused:

Fact is, I've been anti EU since Maastricht, and one reason I became Swiss was to do my part to keep CH OUT! :mad:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Troublawesome (Post 2627193)
Wow you corrected me that Switzerland is not in the EU, who would have known...because you didn't understand that I meant all the bilaterals and adoption of EU legislation right?

That's NOT what you said, so that's NOT what one would understand. :rolleyes:

Anyway, I'd be more than happy to kiss the bilaterals goodbye. ;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Troublawesome (Post 2627193)
Nothing useful, nothing informative just a good old typical troll reply from you as always. Added to my ignore list along with Phos, you deserve to be next to each other.

Thanks! :p

Tom

lewton 21.07.2016 20:20

Re: Freedom of Movement for EU nationals: should the Swiss bend the knee?
 
I agree that if the EU makes it clear that it does not wish to negotiate, the Swiss government should put the full question to a vote.
This is not undemocratic. The Swiss people can vote again if they want to stop free movement for EEA nationals, knowing the full consequences.
After all, I remember reading somewhere that what distinguishes the Swiss referendum rules from what happens in other parts of the world (e.g. California) is the fact that the people cannot vote whatever they want but it has to have been fully thought (e.g. while in California they can vote to cut taxes by 50%, in Switzerland they would have to add in the vote what expenses the government would have to cut from the budget).

lewton 21.07.2016 20:27

Re: Freedom of Movement for EU nationals: should the Swiss bend the knee?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by st2lemans (Post 2627203)
Anyway, I'd be more than happy to kiss the bilaterals goodbye. ;)

Me too.
I think that the Swiss-EU relationship is too complicated they way it is now.

Also, I would love to move back to Switzerland one day, and I would rather have to go through an emigration process but at least, when I am there find the Switzerland I love, instead of a place full of arrogant Europeans who don't respect the country that is hosting them (e.g. expecting to speak English at all times instead of making an effort to integrate).

TerryEntoure 21.07.2016 21:18

Re: Freedom of Movement for EU nationals: should the Swiss bend the knee?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by lewton (Post 2627213)
Me too.
I think that the Swiss-EU relationship is too complicated they way it is now.

Also, I would love to move back to Switzerland one day, and I would rather have to go through an emigration process but at least, when I am there find the Switzerland I love, instead of a place full of arrogant Europeans who don't respect the country that is hosting them (e.g. expecting to speak English at all times instead of making an effort to integrate).

Berlin, there, a city completely free from arrogant Europeans. You know, the type who swan around speaking English and not integrating. Yeah, those ones. We've all seen them at their social media start-ups sipping Frappalattecinos in an ironic jam jar. Yeah, they hang around speaking English with no regard for people that don't understand it. We all know the type. You see them down the organic food market with their little bags. Some of them aren't even from here. But we've all seen them. Berlin has none of them at all. :)

Phos 21.07.2016 21:28

Re: Freedom of Movement for EU nationals: should the Swiss bend the knee?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by lewton (Post 2627207)
I agree that if the EU makes it clear that it does not wish to negotiate,

EU is wishy-washy and moody. FMOP is being challenged on multiple fronts. If they don't take heed, they'll be solely responsible for their own cracking.



Quote:

Originally Posted by TerryEntoure (Post 2627230)
Berlin, there, a city completely free from arrogant Europeans.

Ha, you mean those people who think the rest of Europe should follow according to they way they feel at the moment? I think its about time they realize there is more to Europe than just Germans.

TerryEntoure 21.07.2016 21:52

Re: Freedom of Movement for EU nationals: should the Swiss bend the knee?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Phos (Post 2627237)
Ha, you mean those people who think the rest of Europe should follow according to they way they feel at the moment? I think its about time they realize there is more to Europe than just Germans.

Umm, people speaking English in Berlin probably aren't German. You've seen that type too, haven't you. I know you've seen them. They take little bags down to the organic food market on the way home from their social media start-up. You know the type - always blabbering away in a foreign guttural as though they were speaking in tongues or had a serious brain injury. So, if a German saw one they would automatically know that there is more to Germany than just Germans. What they think of the rest of Europe is anyone's guess but you've certainly made a firm conclusion there.

Which Germans have you been talking to that think Europe is just Germans? They need to get out a bit. Maybe learn a bit of geography. Take a dictionary in a little bag down to the local food market or something like that. Can you help them? Maybe lay on a special evening class? They certainly need some kind of assistance. What a state of affairs. It's not the war, you know.

Phos 21.07.2016 22:01

Re: Freedom of Movement for EU nationals: should the Swiss bend the knee?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TerryEntoure (Post 2627250)
Which Germans have you been talking to that think Europe is just Germans? They need to get out a bit. Maybe learn a bit of geography. Take a dictionary in a little bag down to the local food market or something like that. Can you help them? Maybe lay on a special evening class? They certainly need some kind of assistance. What a state of affairs. It's not the war, you know.

I was referring to German policy makers who would like to enforce their perspective on the rest of Europe. :dunno: Someone needs to remind them that other parts of Europe don't really see their countries undergoing a population decline like they do. Okay, it may not be arrogance. May just be myopia.

Castro 21.07.2016 22:17

Re: Freedom of Movement for EU nationals: should the Swiss bend the knee?
 
I think the Swiss should introduce the concept of two third super majorities like the US and many other countries to stop marginal wins destroying the country.

Wollishofener 21.07.2016 22:33

Re: Freedom of Movement for EU nationals: should the Swiss bend the knee?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Urs Max (Post 2627186)
Rumor has it that Swiss government is in most intense negotiations with Nicola Sturgeon, Theresa May, and the rest of Scotish and UK governments.

As you may already know, Scotland has gotten between hammer and anvil when the UK accepted Brexit, because the Scots want to stay in the EU. Knowing how hard-headed they can be, May is quite concerned and looking for an amicable solution, a way out if you will.

Switzerland on the other hand is completely surrounded by EU countries but doesn't want to join the club, a really awkward position for both which got even worsened not too long ago when Swiss government had to ask the EU to return their application to join them.

The obvious and completely logic solution to all those issues is that Switzerland should simply swap position with Scotland, they're a perfect match. EU would finally get rid of that alien spot in their midst, Scotland could stay in the EU, Switzerland would finally get rid of the permanent pressure to join, and England would get a much more powerful ally than Scotland could ever be.

What's more, because Switzerland already has 25% foreigners, the few the English want to get rid of could certainly get exported to us, repaint them if necessary to not induce more commotion than absolutely necessary, perhaps send some expats back in return.

So here you go:
Vote for the swap in the upcoming vote and all problems will be solved. Forever. Extragrosses Pfadfinderehrenwort.


England should ^re-join EFTA and Scotland ahould become the KINGDOM OF SCOTLAND and join the EU

Medea Fleecestealer 21.07.2016 22:34

Re: Freedom of Movement for EU nationals: should the Swiss bend the knee?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by lewton (Post 2627207)
I agree that if the EU makes it clear that it does not wish to negotiate, the Swiss government should put the full question to a vote.
This is not undemocratic. The Swiss people can vote again if they want to stop free movement for EEA nationals, knowing the full consequences.
After all, I remember reading somewhere that what distinguishes the Swiss referendum rules from what happens in other parts of the world (e.g. California) is the fact that the people cannot vote whatever they want but it has to have been fully thought (e.g. while in California they can vote to cut taxes by 50%, in Switzerland they would have to add in the vote what expenses the government would have to cut from the budget).

The Swiss already know the full consequences. Am I the only one who realises that if the people of Switzerland really wanted to vote on this issue again there would have been popular initiatives for signing to try and get another referendum on the subject? Has this happened? No. Not once in the 3 years since the vote was taken. Why? Because that's what the Swiss people want. The Swiss people knew, the Swiss people voted, now the government has to implement their decision. End of story.

Wollishofener 21.07.2016 22:38

Re: Freedom of Movement for EU nationals: should the Swiss bend the knee?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Medea Fleecestealer (Post 2627276)
The Swiss already know the full consequences. Am I the only one who realises that if the people of Switzerland really wanted to vote on this issue again there would have been popular initiatives for signing to try and get another referendum on the subject? Has this happened? No. Not once in the 3 years since the vote was taken. Why? Because that's what the Swiss people want. The Swiss people knew, the Swiss people voted, now the government has to implement their decision. End of story.


the Blocherites want an iniative about cacelling all bilaterals

Phos 21.07.2016 22:40

Re: Freedom of Movement for EU nationals: should the Swiss bend the knee?
 
I find it ridiculous to lay blame on Switzerland for the EU's intransigence. Switzerland is fine as it is without the EU's coercion. It shows total disrespect for the nations, histories, cultures and people of Europe. That is why I was elated by Brexit, and I am hoping other countries quickly follow suit in reclaiming its sovereignty. I mean, the EU is not nearly close to being capable of developing a decent country half like Switzerland. Look at its member states, mostly failed and soon to fail states. I'd like to get out before Switzerland becomes one of them, thank you.

Wollishofener 21.07.2016 22:42

Re: Freedom of Movement for EU nationals: should the Swiss bend the knee?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Phos (Post 2627289)
I find it ridiculous to lay blame on Switzerland for the EU's intransigence. Switzerland is fine as it is without the EU's coercion. It shows total disrespect for the nations, histories, cultures and people of Europe. That is why I was elated by Brexit, and I am hoping other countries quickly follow suit in reclaiming its sovereignty. I mean, the EU is not nearly close to being capable of developing a decent country half like Switzerland. Look at its member states, mostly failed and soon to fail states. I'd like to get out before Switzerland becomes one of them, thank you.


to come is the KSexitUK

roegner 21.07.2016 23:42

Re: Freedom of Movement for EU nationals: should the Swiss bend the knee?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TerryEntoure (Post 2627230)
Berlin, there, a city completely free from arrogant Europeans. You know, the type who swan around speaking English and not integrating. Yeah, those ones. We've all seen them at their social media start-ups sipping Frappalattecinos in an ironic jam jar. Yeah, they hang around speaking English with no regard for people that don't understand it. We all know the type. You see them down the organic food market with their little bags. Some of them aren't even from here. But we've all seen them. Berlin has none of them at all. :)

Just asking, whereabouts in Berlin did you live? Lovely city but this?
Iīm actually more irritated by those German helicopter parents with their huge bikes that have no clue how to drive one going from one organic shop to another whilst complaining how the teachers do not understand their princes and princesses.

Donīt get me wrong, Berlin is a great city but strange or arrogant people are everywhere.

MarkH 21.07.2016 23:48

Re: Freedom of Movement for EU nationals: should the Swiss bend the knee?
 
This whole 'Freedom of Movement for EU nationals' issue all seems rather defunct at present,as Switzerland is being overrun by Taliban/migrants/refugees.
This problem is far worse and net migration cannot reduce under these circumstances.They need to shift focus to this worsening issue which has surfaced since the referendum.:p:p:p


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