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  #121  
Old 20.08.2016, 23:55
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Re: Will the UK actually leave the EU?

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Here's Phils chart again, just in a hopefully more useful format. Phil+mods, feel free to copy/paste.

URL:
http://www.youscreen.de/fuppocpvd12.jpg


against the will o f the People ?
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  #122  
Old 21.08.2016, 00:01
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Re: Will the UK actually leave the EU?

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against the will o f the People ?
The will of the people doesn't count for much in the UK
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  #123  
Old 21.08.2016, 00:06
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Re: Will the UK actually leave the EU?

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The will of the people doesn't count for much in the UK

indeeed -- but the sovereign of the UK votged LEAW
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  #124  
Old 21.08.2016, 00:09
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Re: Will the UK actually leave the EU?

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indeeed -- but the sovereign of the UK votged LEAW
Did she?
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  #125  
Old 21.08.2016, 04:11
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Re: Will the UK actually leave the EU?

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As a Brexit has never been performed before how do we know it's a "bad idea"? And what is the "unequivocal evidence"? We are 6 weeks into what will likely be a 5 to 10 year process, it's far too soon to draw any lasting conclusions.

If I may quote the UK's Prime Minister "Brexit is Brexit"...
Well, every time there's public discussion where it looks as if the UK might go through with Brexit, the value of the pound drops. I'd say that is a very strong indication of a Bad Idea. If being the financial capital of Europe makes a significant part of the London and UK economy, then that may be an even bigger indication that this is a Bad Idea.

But I won't get dragged into another pointless argument. I recommend seeing some of the videos on YouTube about Brexit posted by Phil "Thunderf00t" Mason. (Please note that if you do an internet search for "Thunderf00t", the last two letters in that name are actually zeroes.)
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  #126  
Old 21.08.2016, 09:58
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Re: Will the UK actually leave the EU?

Brxit will happen when Britain is ready and so what if it takes until 2020 which is a strong possibility. Any decline in the poind could actually be a good thing making doing business with the UK more affordable, indeed Switzerland could outsource labour to the UK to decrease the exposure on high cost labour in Switzerland
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  #127  
Old 21.08.2016, 10:00
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Re: Will the UK actually leave the EU?

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Well, every time there's public discussion where it looks as if the UK might go through with Brexit, the value of the pound drops. I'd say that is a very strong indication of a Bad Idea. If being the financial capital of Europe makes a significant part of the London and UK economy, then that may be an even bigger indication that this is a Bad Idea.
Giving up preferential access to a relatively wealthy market, one where 48% of your exports go is probably also not such a hot idea.

Failure to understand that WTO members are not legally not entitled to conduct trade talks with you until after you fully exit the EU is also something to be considered.
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  #128  
Old 21.08.2016, 10:58
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Re: Will the UK actually leave the EU?

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Did she?
No — she never votes. She is above politics and the political process, and never indicates her personal opinion or position on political issues.

I find it a bit of a joke that people bang on about "the will of the people" when the referendum result was as close as it was, and the post-referendum news and chatter has shown such a clear U-turn.

Where's the harm in holding a second, confirmatory (or not) referendum, given the stakes are so high? The decision to leave the EU, once officially made and implemented, is effectively irreversible. I'd want to have a much higher margin of certainty than a slim four percentage-point gap between the opposing camps.
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  #129  
Old 21.08.2016, 11:20
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Re: Will the UK actually leave the EU?

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, and the post-referendum news and chatter has shown such a clear U-turn.
.
I really don't believe thats true.
You have to remember that informed chatter on the day of the vote was a clear majority to stay, so no U-turn at all.
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  #130  
Old 21.08.2016, 12:16
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Re: Will the UK actually leave the EU?

I'm really excited to see what's going to happen next but at this step it seems UK will leave the current EU. The better question is whether they eventually accept the freedom of movement or not?
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  #131  
Old 21.08.2016, 12:30
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Re: Will the UK actually leave the EU?

There are many stupid people about, and many voted to leave as a protest vote against the EU and the government. Half of them thought the Court of Human Rights was a part of the EU, and half of them didn't know that 46% of UK exports went to the EU.

The leave camp made many blatant lies, even driving a bus about Britain claiming Britain would save £350 million per week if they left the EU. These are blatant lies, as although Britain does pay £350 million, it receives almost as much in grants and rebates.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...uk-350m-a-week

Most of the British newspapers were in favour of leaving, and bad news sells better than good news!

After all this nonsense, any sensible person will only see the referendum as a poorly conducted opinion poll.
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  #132  
Old 21.08.2016, 12:43
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Re: Will the UK actually leave the EU?

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I'm really excited to see what's going to happen next but at this step it seems UK will leave the current EU. The better question is whether they eventually accept the freedom of movement or not?
The EU "freedom of movement" is a corner stone of EU policy. It enables employers to easily find labour if there is a shortage of skills in the country. This will not be given up while the EU is a functioning body.

Switzerland is in big trouble: it held a referendum and rejected EU "freedom of movement". The Swiss government cannot implement this rejection in Swiss law, without breaking the EU treaties it has signed. The EU has already warned Switzerland of it's powers, by cancelling the Erasmus programme which enabled pan European research. Switzerland must now fund it's own research students which were previously funded by the EU.

The UK must realise that like Noway and Switzerland, if it wants to trade with the EU on good terms, then it must accept the "Freedom of Movement." If the UK leaves the EU, it will be forced to keep the "Freedom of Movement" in place. Immigration from Europe was a major complaint by the UK voters in the referendum: however almost as much immigration came from outside of Europe, and this they had failed to reduce.

So at the end of all the discussions, if the UK left the EU, it would be back in the position it is in today, with fewer friends, with the "Freedom of Movement" still in place, and almost certainly paying more money to farmers, scientists, security, etc. etc.
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  #133  
Old 21.08.2016, 12:55
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Re: Will the UK actually leave the EU?

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I really don't believe thats true.
You have to remember that informed chatter on the day of the vote was a clear majority to stay, so no U-turn at all.
That was probably true, as the cities and Scotland all voted to remain. No reporter went out to the country, visiting the small towns that always voted conservative or liberal, and they overwhelmingly voted to leave. They distrust the EU and did not see, or agree with, the advantages of EU membership. The Labour party were strong supporters of remaining, but did almost nothing to canvas their opinion. Maybe because their leader, Jeremy Corbin, is personally against the EU.
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  #134  
Old 21.08.2016, 21:34
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Re: Will the UK actually leave the EU?

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The EU "freedom of movement" is a corner stone of EU policy. It enables employers to easily find labour if there is a shortage of skills in the country. This will not be given up while the EU is a functioning body.

Switzerland is in big trouble: it held a referendum and rejected EU "freedom of movement". The Swiss government cannot implement this rejection in Swiss law, without breaking the EU treaties it has signed. The EU has already warned Switzerland of it's powers, by cancelling the Erasmus programme which enabled pan European research. Switzerland must now fund it's own research students which were previously funded by the EU.

The UK must realise that like Noway and Switzerland, if it wants to trade with the EU on good terms, then it must accept the "Freedom of Movement." If the UK leaves the EU, it will be forced to keep the "Freedom of Movement" in place. Immigration from Europe was a major complaint by the UK voters in the referendum: however almost as much immigration came from outside of Europe, and this they had failed to reduce.

So at the end of all the discussions, if the UK left the EU, it would be back in the position it is in today, with fewer friends, with the "Freedom of Movement" still in place, and almost certainly paying more money to farmers, scientists, security, etc. etc.
The swiss vote was very close too I seem to recall. Why is the uk should rerun s referendum because 'it's the sensible thing to do' but the swiss one is fine and they just go on and implement it ?
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  #135  
Old 21.08.2016, 22:32
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Re: Will the UK actually leave the EU?

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did she?


le souverain c est le people
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  #136  
Old 21.08.2016, 22:32
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Re: Will the UK actually leave the EU?

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The swiss vote was very close too I seem to recall. Why is the uk should rerun s referendum because 'it's the sensible thing to do' but the swiss one is fine and they just go on and implement it ?
Because UK referendums are legally advisory and Swiss referendums are legally binding.
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  #137  
Old 21.08.2016, 22:44
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Re: Will the UK actually leave the EU?

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Because UK referendums are legally advisory and Swiss referendums are legally binding.

Which means that the so-called referanda in the UK are rather opinion polls
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  #138  
Old 21.08.2016, 22:50
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Re: Will the UK actually leave the EU?

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Which means that the so-called referanda in the UK are rather opinion polls
It's exactly the same as a General Election, just advisory. Thats's why there is a meting with the Queen.......If the PM refuses to move out of 10 Downing Street there is nothing anyone can do. As he won't have a majority in the house of commons he won't be able to win any votes so no point in staying.
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  #139  
Old 21.08.2016, 23:00
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Re: Will the UK actually leave the EU?

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Which means that the so-called referanda in the UK are rather opinion polls
Exactly

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It's exactly the same as a General Election, just advisory. Thats's why there is a meting with the Queen.......If the PM refuses to move out of 10 Downing Street there is nothing anyone can do. As he won't have a majority in the house of commons he won't be able to win any votes so no point in staying.

And if the Queen refuses to endorse (ask) the next PM them ditto, except we could have a breakdown of the constitutional monarcy.
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  #140  
Old 21.08.2016, 23:13
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Re: Will the UK actually leave the EU?

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The swiss vote was very close too I seem to recall. Why is the uk should rerun s referendum because 'it's the sensible thing to do' but the swiss one is fine and they just go on and implement it ?
They already collected enough signatures in Switzerland for the new *counter" referendum!
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