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View Poll Results: Will Trump be a good President?
Yes 88 27.08%
No 237 72.92%
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  #20421  
Old 04.11.2019, 09:57
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Donald J. Trump@realDonaldTrump

If Shifty Adam Schiff, who is a corrupt politician who fraudulently made up what I said on the “call,” is allowed to release transcripts of the Never Trumpers & others that are & were interviewed, he will change the words that were said to suit the Dems purposes.
Republicans should give their own transcripts of the interviews to contrast with Schiff’s manipulated propaganda.
House Republicans must have nothing to do with Shifty’s rendition of those interviews.
He is a proven liar, leaker & freak who is really the one who should be impeached!
Does Spanky really believe those GOPs really made full transcripts!
Anyway, the protocol is the interviewee checks the official transcript before it is released.

GOP releasing unchecked transcripts would be a farce.
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Old 04.11.2019, 10:09
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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What else would create "safe spaces" on college campuses?
Reading around, it seems this concept of "safe spaces" has been intentionally overblown to suit the agenda of the right-wing media in its relentless attempts to discredit students and universities (they're all leftie libtards, right? )

There's quite a good down-to-earth article about it all here which kind of adds a little perspective.

It seems they are not completely unheard of, along with requests for content warnings but, then again, if you are the victim of abuse and someone suddenly presents your class with a case study on a closely related theme, it would take someone with either a very strong stomach or someone in denial not to be affected in some way.
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  #20423  
Old 04.11.2019, 10:37
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Does Spanky really believe those GOPs really made full transcripts!
Anyway, the protocol is the interviewee checks the official transcript before it is released.

GOP releasing unchecked transcripts would be a farce.

The word "shifty" is also a slight antisemitism (IMO).
No respected public official would dare to use it in Germany in describing a politician - even more so if he's Jewish.



Which is really weird if you think that Trump is probably the most loyal supporter of Israel of all.
But not so weird if you realize that Trump likes to play both sides a lot of the time, so he doesn't end up on the wrong side ;-)
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Old 04.11.2019, 11:05
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Reading around, it seems this concept of "safe spaces" has been intentionally overblown to suit the agenda of the right-wing media in its relentless attempts to discredit students and universities (they're all leftie libtards, right? )

There's quite a good down-to-earth article about it all here which kind of adds a little perspective.

It seems they are not completely unheard of, along with requests for content warnings but, then again, if you are the victim of abuse and someone suddenly presents your class with a case study on a closely related theme, it would take someone with either a very strong stomach or someone in denial not to be affected in some way.
That‘s the same article I cited above. I think it’s a very informative piece. There‘s also this account of a guy who complained a lot about safe spaces and when the tables turned, he was crying for a safe space himself.

https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20...g-debate.shtml

My husband is a professor here. He‘s been an academic for nearly 30 years. In the US, he did a fair amount of academic counseling in addition to his normal stuff. He thinks there is a definite need for safe spaces, in cases of abuse, when people are coming out, etc. His perspective is that it‘s something that‘s been blown out of proportion by right wing advocates to create controversy and news, and many of the denigrators really want their own spaces. At the university of North Carolina, conservative students took his classes and gave him high marks for fairness, despite his left leanings. I‘m obviously biased, and providing an anecdote - but we all do.

Last edited by edot; 04.11.2019 at 11:24.
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Old 04.11.2019, 13:01
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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High schools led by the PTA at those schools; their children or (they perhaps?) are offended that their children should read such "offensive" literature. Again context is the operative word here.

Have you not read about the "safe spaces" at US college campuses? Back in the day, wasn't university education about dialogue/debate and open discourse? What happened to freedom of speech and dialogue?
Could you please give me an example of offensive literature? I have no idea what safe space really means tbh, not accustomed with these concepts.

I personally decided to gently guide my kids towards maths and natural sciences as I am aware that lots of academic subjects are rather shifty and politicised for quite some time already. For better or for worse. Artistic creativity is a bonus, but only to be pursued as a hobby.
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Old 04.11.2019, 18:12
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Could you please give me an example of offensive literature? I have no idea what safe space really means tbh, not accustomed with these concepts.

I personally decided to gently guide my kids towards maths and natural sciences as I am aware that lots of academic subjects are rather shifty and politicised for quite some time already. For better or for worse. Artistic creativity is a bonus, but only to be pursued as a hobby.
I‘m sorry you feel that way. I wouldn‘t call all non science/math areas shifty and politicized, and neither would I say that science and math are immune to shiftiness and politicization. But as long as your kids learn to think, are curious and can communicate - it doesn‘t much matter what they do.

One of the schools I went to, Carnegie Mellon in the US has placed their quite rigorous statistics department in the school lhumanities and social science.

But anyway, safe spaces....here‘s a definition...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safe_space

And no doubt you can find many memes providing an alternative view.

Americans have been banning books forever. The specific texts mentioned here are Vonnegut‘s Slauterhouse Five, Twain’s Huckleberry Finn or Tom Sawyer, Nabokov‘s Lolita, Lee’s To kill a mockingbird. Reasons are violence, sexual imagery and content and use of racist, albeit colloquial language.

It‘s easier to ban a book completely than require an intelligent discussion about uncomfortable topics. Of course places also like to ban discussions of evolution or offer alternative views like creationism.

It‘s all chicken shit - kids are going to read banned books, ask questions....curiosity is a great thing.
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  #20427  
Old 04.11.2019, 20:20
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

Net tightening
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President Donald Trump lost an appeal Monday to keep his tax returns from a Manhattan grand jury, setting up a potential Supreme Court challenge.

A three-judge panel for the Second Circuit Court of Appeals said: "presidential immunity does not bar a state grand jury from issuing a subpoena in aid of its investigation of potential crimes committed by persons within its jurisdiction, even if that investigation may in some way implicate the president."
Source

The article does not mention that this was an extremely fast decision.
Barring Supreme Court obstruction then finally his tax returns will be handed over.
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  #20428  
Old 04.11.2019, 21:51
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

Muddy waters getting muddier!
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The Ukrainian prosecutor who led the investigation into the company where former Vice President Joe Biden’s son previously served on the board is expected to be fired, Reuters reported Monday.

The prosecutor Kostiantyn Kulyk had previously met with President Trump’s personal lawyer Rudy Giuliani as Giuliani made efforts to get the country to investigate Biden’s son Hunter.
A source told Reuters the prosecutor will be fired for failing to attend an exam last month required of all General Prosecutor’s Office employees and neglecting to provide justification for his absence.
Source

Meanwhile, the Dems have released the first two transcripts from the Congressional hearings, some tidbits;

Yovanovitch's testimony
  • She said a Ukrainian official warned her to "watch my back" as Trump associates worked to undermine her and have her removed.
  • Yovanovitch said Giuliani’s shadow diplomacy “cut the ground out from underneath us” at the US embassy and hampered her efforts to represent the US as the senior-most diplomat in Ukraine.
  • She said it was “not good policy” and not in the interests of the United States to get the State Departments involved in Trump and Giuliani’s efforts to solicit political help from the Ukrainian government.

McKinley's testimony
  • McKinley told lawmakers that he spoke with a fellow ambassador about what McKinley believed sounded like “bullying tactics” within the State Department toward officials who might comply with the impeachment investigation.
  • He testified that he chose to resign because in part because of what he saw as the use of ambassadors “to advance domestic political objectives.”
  • McKinley said he “was ‘disturbed’ by the implication that foreign governments were being approached to procure negative information on political opponents."
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  #20429  
Old 04.11.2019, 21:57
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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But anyway, safe spaces....here‘s a definition...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safe_space

And no doubt you can find many memes providing an alternative view.

Americans have been banning books forever. The specific texts mentioned here are Vonnegut‘s Slauterhouse Five, Twain’s Huckleberry Finn or Tom Sawyer, Nabokov‘s Lolita, Lee’s To kill a mockingbird. Reasons are violence, sexual imagery and content and use of racist, albeit colloquial language.

It‘s easier to ban a book completely than require an intelligent discussion about uncomfortable topics. Of course places also like to ban discussions of evolution or offer alternative views like creationism.

It‘s all chicken shit - kids are going to read banned books, ask questions....curiosity is a great thing.
I guess different people name some things in different ways. What I have read about "safe space" to me it looks more like a set of principles to which any university should adhere if they're not already doing it, have it written in their charter and actively promote it through different means - student organisations, clubs, workshops, conferences etc.

I don't agree with book banning/burning/censoring. (and not following rigorous research/study methods, of course) I know quite a lot about book burning and official censorship so I'm interested in anything that resembles that and of course, probably have a different view than many people here. You can create a "safe space" for everyone and still have an academically rigorous learning environment. I feel like book censorship and rewriting history doesn't really help.

But it may be just me, of course and I don't intend to debate it any further as it is off topic anyway. Thank you for your answer, I was really curious to find out more, and more from an American point of view. Because to me it seems that some Americans on EF have deep resentments in regards with the so called "political correctness" and I always wondered why so much....I don't know how to call it, maybe anger.

Last edited by greenmount; 04.11.2019 at 22:11.
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Old 04.11.2019, 22:37
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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I guess different people name some things in different ways. What I have read about "safe space" to me it looks more like a set of principles to which any university should adhere if they're not already doing it, have it written in their charter and actively promote it through different means - student organisations, clubs, workshops, conferences etc.

I don't agree with book banning/burning/censoring. (and not following rigorous research/study methods, of course) I know quite a lot about book burning and official censorship so I'm interested in anything that resembles that and of course, probably have a different view than many people here. You can create a "safe space" for everyone and still have an academically rigorous learning environment. I feel like book censorship and rewriting history doesn't really help.

But it may be just me, of course and I don't intend to debate it any further as it is off topic anyway. Thank you for your answer, I was really curious to find out more, and more from an American point of view. Because to me it seems that some Americans on EF have deep resentments in regards with the so called "political correctness" and I always wondered why so much....I don't know how to call it, maybe anger.
Not anger... But open debate. I completely agree with your and edot's comments regarding book banning and censorship. That said, the sensitivities of those who feel afflicted do stifle debate and discourse. The fact that some US universities have prohibited outside speakers for fear of causing angst among students and their triggers makes me feel disheartened.

30 years ago when I attended a fairly conservative, public university, contentious speakers and debates were welcomed because of the discourse and discussion which ensued. The past few years, at US universities and colleges, any speaker can be "disinvited" if some group feels his/her viewpoint is not analogous with their own and are triggered. This applies to both extreme right and extreme left btw.

Interesting article from the Telegraph here (I gather this issue is also affecting UK universities):

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/educatio...shock-disturb/

Here is another article from FIRE which has a historical list of those speakers with whom students in the US objected (Note the rise since 2015!):

https://www.thefire.org/research/dis...tion-database/
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Old 04.11.2019, 22:54
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

@Terrifisch, my apologises if I seemed like pointing in your direction. I didn't think of you when I made those observations (maybe I shouldn't have mentioned them at all) We had/have other contributors who made me think of all of these.
I enjoy reading your posts, even when we don't agree.
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Old 04.11.2019, 22:57
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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@Terrifisch, my apologises if I seemed like pointing in your direction. I didn't think of you when I made those observations (maybe I shouldn't have mentioned them at all) We had/have other contributors who made me think of all of these.
I enjoy reading your posts, even when we don't agree.
No worries Greenmount! As the youngest of 9, I have quite a thick skin . Which may explain why I still visit this forum
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Old 04.11.2019, 23:01
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Not anger... But open debate. I completely agree with your and edot's comments regarding book banning and censorship. That said, the sensitivities of those who feel afflicted do stifle debate and discourse. The fact that some US universities have prohibited outside speakers for fear of causing angst among students and their triggers makes me feel disheartened.

30 years ago when I attended a fairly conservative, public university, contentious speakers and debates were welcomed because of the discourse and discussion which ensued. The past few years, at US universities and colleges, any speaker can be "disinvited" if some group feels his/her viewpoint is not analogous with their own and are triggered. This applies to both extreme right and extreme left btw.


Here is another article from FIRE which has a historical list of those speakers with whom students in the US objected (Note the rise since 2015!):

https://www.thefire.org/research/dis...tion-database/
I think disinvites happen as often for security concerns as they do for triggers.

But the FIRE list was interesting —- students thought Mr Rogers (Fred Roger). wasn‘t mature enough for them. Right.
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Old 04.11.2019, 23:11
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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No worries Greenmount! As the youngest of 9, I have quite a thick skin . Which may explain why I still visit this forum
Frankly I do worry when I am unfair. Btw, I used to be a "snowflake" and EF almost cured me of this "condition"...
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Old 04.11.2019, 23:22
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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I think disinvites happen as often for security concerns as they do for triggers.

But the FIRE list was interesting —- students thought Mr Rogers (Fred Roger). wasn‘t mature enough for them. Right.
But which comes first regarding security needed? The chicken or the egg?
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Old 05.11.2019, 08:37
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Frankly I do worry when I am unfair. Btw, I used to be a "snowflake" and EF almost cured me of this "condition"...
That‘s funny. The longer I hang around here, the more wisdom I see in being liberal.
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Old 05.11.2019, 09:33
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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But which comes first regarding security needed? The chicken or the egg?
Given that security needs are expressed across the spectrum, I don’t know that it matters.
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Old 05.11.2019, 09:36
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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That‘s funny. The longer I hang around here, the more wisdom I see in being liberal.
This is yet another term that includes a lot of things nowadays but some of us learned it during economics classes. I believe in democracy and equality, and of course many other things that might get included under the "liberal" umbrella.
There are quite some differences between Americans and Europeans. For instance it took me a while to get the "libtard" joke as liberal, at least in economics, is not what people think it is. There's probably a name in linguistics for all of these, but to me it seemed odd. I still don't think it's funny. I also read things that made me think "Wow, this is not my reality mate, where all these people are coming from. Who are they? What are they?"
Anyway, I grew a thick skin on EF. I see some benefits in this.
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Old 05.11.2019, 10:17
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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This is yet another term that includes a lot of things nowadays but some of us learned it during economics classes. I believe in democracy and equality, and of course many other things that might get included under the "liberal" umbrella.
There are quite some differences between Americans and Europeans. For instance it took me a while to get the "libtard" joke as liberal, at least in economics, is not what people think it is. There's probably a name in linguistics for all of these, but to me it seemed odd. I still don't think it's funny. I also read things that made me think "Wow, this is not my reality mate, where all these people are coming from. Who are they? What are they?"
Anyway, I grew a thick skin on EF. I see some benefits in this.
Yeah. I didn’t use snowflake because while I lean left, I am not weak. And I think the connotation is for weakness (in the US) . I might have a thin skin, however and be reactive to what I perceive as unfairness or cruelty. Libtard is never a word I’d use. EF has taught me that my perceptions, my internal frame, is quite alright.

But yes, in US terms, I am liberal.
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Old 05.11.2019, 11:37
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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This is yet another term that includes a lot of things nowadays but some of us learned it during economics classes. I believe in democracy and equality, and of course many other things that might get included under the "liberal" umbrella.
There are quite some differences between Americans and Europeans. For instance it took me a while to get the "libtard" joke as liberal, at least in economics, is not what people think it is. There's probably a name in linguistics for all of these, but to me it seemed odd. I still don't think it's funny. I also read things that made me think "Wow, this is not my reality mate, where all these people are coming from. Who are they? What are they?"
Anyway, I grew a thick skin on EF. I see some benefits in this.
I agree Libtard is not a joke, it is a blend of the word liberal and the slur retard and is consequently an unpleasant term.
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