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  #20681  
Old 19.12.2019, 12:47
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Andrew Johnson was impeached at the end of the third year of his first (and only) term. Trump is already into the fourth year of his.
Trump is in his 3rd year, his fourth starts in a month.

Johnson was impeached shortly into his fourth year, not at the end of his 3rd.

Tom

Last edited by st2lemans; 19.12.2019 at 15:00.
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  #20682  
Old 19.12.2019, 15:48
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

ftfy

Losing count of the number of GOP Congressman leaving the House this session, think it is 21?
Quote:
Rep. Mark Meadows (R-N.C.), a top ally of President Trump, announced Thursday morning that he will retire from Congress at the end of his term.
Clearly they see little chance of winning the House back from the Dems.
Meadows will be a major loss for Trump, he is one of his most virulent supporters; probably looking for a job working for Trump?
  #20683  
Old 19.12.2019, 17:05
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

Clinton was actually lucky with that one.
Imagine it would have happened these day with the #metoo movement.
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  #20684  
Old 19.12.2019, 18:00
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Trump is in his 3rd year, his fourth starts in a month.

Johnson was impeached shortly into his fourth year, not at the end of his 3rd.

Tom
You're right, I got befuddled.

So Trump can lay claim to the fastest impeachment of a US president in history, after all! It's unpresidented! He should be delighted!
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  #20685  
Old 19.12.2019, 18:06
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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You're right, I got befuddled.

So Trump can lay claim to the fastest impeachment of a US president in history, after all! It's unpresidented! He should be delighted!
He should push it to happen himself then before even that is gone.
  #20686  
Old 19.12.2019, 18:08
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Clinton was actually lucky with that one.
Imagine it would have happened these day with the #metoo movement.
Who else blew him?

Tom
  #20687  
Old 19.12.2019, 18:27
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

Apparently the King* of Wakanda has renounced the free trade agreement with the US infuriating Mr Trump. It is official as the Department of Agriculture has removed the FTA details from their website.

*aka Black Panther.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-50849559
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Old 19.12.2019, 18:57
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Apparently the King* of Wakanda has renounced the free trade agreement with the US infuriating Mr Trump. It is official as the Department of Agriculture has removed the FTA details from their website.

*aka Black Panther.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-50849559
  #20689  
Old 20.12.2019, 05:51
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

Very interesting OpEd in the NYT regarding parallels to Trump and BoJo by Brett Stephens. Worth the read. PS...Unless one is a subscriber to NYT, one cannot access. Hence the long copy....

Britain’s Ominous Portent for Democrats
Warren and Sanders supporters should consider the fate of Jeremy Corbyn.

Bret Stephens
By Bret Stephens
Opinion Columnist
Dec. 13, 2019

1062

Boris Johnson at 10 Downing Street on Friday.
Boris Johnson at 10 Downing Street on Friday.Credit...Hollie Adams/Bloomberg, via Getty Images
When Britain flummoxed and flabbergasted the world by voting in 2016 to leave the European Union, it seemed like a one-off: An unexpected gamble by a normally prudent country, but nothing that signified a profound shift beyond the United Kingdom and Europe.

Donald Trump’s election a few months later proved otherwise. Brexit was a portent, not a fluke. The British electorate may have been incautious, but it was ahead of the trend. The desire, however misplaced or ugly, to “take back” control of a country from supercilious political elites was a global phenomenon, not a local event.

Don’t think it can’t happen again, in much the same way.

That’s a lesson Democrats ought to draw, quickly and clearly, from the thumping victory Boris Johnson won for the Conservative Party on Thursday. As recently as September, some left-wing pundits and politicians were glibly writing off Johnson as a “failed prime minister,” peddling a “fantasy” of a renegotiated Brexit and facing “political disgrace” after losing his majority in Parliament.

Today, Johnson has renegotiated Brexit, the Tories have their largest majority since 1987, and Labour has sustained its worst defeat since 1935.
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How did he do this? In four ways, each of which has parallels with Trump.

First, Johnson was fortunate in his political foes. He ran against the most avowedly leftist frontbench the Labour Party has put forward since the early 1980s. Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn proudly calls himself a “socialist.” He rails against a “rigged system” that supposedly exists for the benefit of a handful of billionaires. His campaign promised free college, dramatic increases in health spending, a hike in the minimum wage, massive infrastructure spending, new taxes on the rich, and a “new green deal.”

Sound familiar? It’s the Warren-Sanders manifesto, only with £ rather than $ signs attached.

Second, Johnson was forward looking. He ran as the candidate of Brexit — not, as Theresa May had, as its reluctant and dutiful custodian, but as its persevering and happy warrior. Brexit wasn’t just about unyoking the U.K. from the E.U. It was also a statement of British self-belief, self-reliance and capacity for self-rule.

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That meant that the moment Brexit passed, it was both morally wrong and politically dumb to try to reverse the result. The former, because it was an attempt to nullify people’s votes. The latter, because it could only be accomplished by means of complex parliamentary and legalistic maneuvers to get a second referendum — carried out by the people who always claim to know what’s true and right.

If impeachment — which I support as a matter of constitutional duty but fear on political grounds — winds up helping Trump get re-elected, it will be for similar reasons. That is, Democrats got so wrapped up in trying to bring the president down by legal and legislative means that they forgot to bring him down by ordinary political ones. The main job of any competent opposition is to fight the next election, not relitigate the past.

Third, Johnson was attuned to the moment. The prime minister is an ideological opportunist, not a purist. This upsets his critics on the right, who dislike some of his big-spending promises. And it confirms the view of his critics on the left, who see his political plasticity as being of a piece with his moral plasticity.
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But we live in a moment when many things are fluid and bending. Voters seem comfortable with leaders whose policies defy most of the usual left-right categories, including on matters like moral character or budgetary discipline. What matters more is relatability, reliability and results. Does the candidate get people like me? Will he keep his political promises? And has he achieved something that directly and tangibly benefits me?

This is Trump’s calling card, as it is Johnson’s. Are there equivalent figures on the left in the U.S. or U.K. willing to shake free from their party’s increasingly tightfitting, ideological straitjackets?

Finally, Johnson has benefited from critics whose mode of analysis is that anything and everything he does is dumb, dishonest, wretched and ruinous. Lately, they warn that he will bring about the end of the country itself. Similarly in the United States, some anti-Trump pundits have been forecasting economic decline and doom for three years straight as the economy continues to grow and unemployment plummets.

Bad things can — and, inevitably, will — happen. In the meantime, what we have is a trans-Atlantic case of boys crying wolf. Does it ever occur to the critics that, by constantly inferring or predicting the worst about either man, they make their less-than-worst moments look good, and their good ones seem positively great?

Regular readers of this column know that I have no wish to see Trump re-elected (though I am delighted by Corbyn’s drubbing). If they share my wish, they should heed Thursday’s lesson: Like Johnson, Trump is a formidable incumbent. To oppose him with Corbynite candidates and progressive primal screams is to ensure his re-election.
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  #20690  
Old 20.12.2019, 09:41
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Clinton was actually lucky with that one.
Imagine it would have happened these day with the #metoo movement.
If they put Trump on the stand, I wouldn't be surprised he would get nailed for lying under oath as well.

As for Lewinsky, she seems to be doing rather successful in the 'victim' spotlight. I wouldn't be surprised if it had happened today, and she had a good lawyer, it would have been rape case.
  #20691  
Old 20.12.2019, 10:23
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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A leading Christian magazine founded by late evangelist Billy Graham -- father of key presidential supporter Franklin Graham -- published an op-ed on Thursday calling for President Donald Trump to be removed from office and urging evangelicals not to support him.

"Whether Mr. Trump should be removed from office by the Senate or by popular vote next election—that is a matter of prudential judgment," Christianity Today's editor in chief, Mark Galli, wrote in the op-ed. "That he should be removed, we believe, is not a matter of partisan loyalties but loyalty to the Creator of the Ten Commandments."
Source

Always been strange that a serial adulterer and liar got so much much support from the Evangelicals. How much influence this magazine with a claimed circulation of only 130,000 will have is hard to estimate.
  #20692  
Old 20.12.2019, 10:43
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Always been strange that a serial adulterer and liar got so much much support from the Evangelicals. How much influence this magazine with a claimed circulation of only 130,000 will have is hard to estimate.
If Trump is removed from office, and Pence comes in: You have a hardcore evangelical Christian in power:
Strongly Anti-abortion
Abstinence Education
Homosexual rights opposition
Same-sex marriage ban
  #20693  
Old 20.12.2019, 10:50
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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If Trump is removed from office, and Pence comes in: You have a hardcore evangelical Christian in power:
Strongly Anti-abortion
Abstinence Education
Homosexual rights opposition
Same-sex marriage ban
I read in an article picking over the current impeachment saga and where it potentially could all end up, and one (probably not so serious) scenario was: Trump's trial goes against him in the Senate, he's removed from office, Pence becomes POTUS, Pence appoints Trump as Vice Prez, Pence resigns, Trump's back in office.

Apparently there's nothing in the constitution to prevent this.

Well, I guess unless Trump's charges are deemed so serious he ends up in prison.

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If Trump is impeached and Pence becomes president, is it legal in the US for him to appoint Trump as Vice-President, and then resign?

Well, there's nothing in the Constitution that forbids it, so it's certainly possible.

The first obstacle is that Mike Pence's appointment of Trump to the vice-presidency would have to be confirmed by a majority of both the House of Representatives and the Senate.

Given that the Democrat-controlled House is on the verge of impeaching Trump, that seems unlikely.

There's also the possibility that, as part of its hypothetical vote to remove Trump from office, the Senate would specify that Trump is prohibited from holding future elected office. That would stop all this in its tracks.

But if the Senate didn't do that, there would be nothing stopping Pence from trying this gambit.

In fact, there would be nothing stopping Trump from continuing his bid for the presidency in 2020 and finding his way back to the White House that way.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-50831350

Last edited by Sandgrounder; 20.12.2019 at 11:00. Reason: EDIT - found link to article.
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Old 20.12.2019, 10:57
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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I read in an article picking over the current impeachment saga and where it potentially could all end up, and one (probably not so serious) scenario was: Trump's trial goes against him in the Senate, he's removed from office, Pence becomes POTUS, Pence appoints Trump as Vice Prez, Pence resigns, Trump's back in office.

Apparently there's nothing in the constitution to prevent this.

Well, I guess unless Trump's charges are deemed so serious he ends up in prison.
There certainly is something to prevent this. If the Senate were to find Trump guilty and depose him, they could also bar him from holding public office ever again. Also, both the House and the Senate would have to approve the appointment of Trump as VP in the scenario you pose, which seems unlikely, given that the House has just impeached him.

What would be more fun is the scenario that I raised a while ago, where Trump is dismissed, Pence is dragged down with him and also dismissed, and Pelosi, the Speaker of the House and therefore second-in-line after the VP, becomes President.
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Old 20.12.2019, 11:01
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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There certainly is something to prevent this. If the Senate were to find Trump guilty and depose him, they could also bar him from holding public office ever again. They almost certainly would do this.

What would be more fun is the scenario that I raised a while ago, where Trump is dismissed, Pence is dragged down with him and also dismissed, and Pelosi, the Speaker of the House and therefore second-in-line after the VP, becomes President.
I found the link to the article because then I wondered if I'd gone batty and imagined it all . Yup, it's highly unlikely but it could, in theory, happen.
  #20696  
Old 20.12.2019, 11:07
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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If they put Trump on the stand, I wouldn't be surprised he would get nailed for lying under oath as well.

As for Lewinsky, she seems to be doing rather successful in the 'victim' spotlight. I wouldn't be surprised if it had happened today, and she had a good lawyer, it would have been rape case.
Actually Lewinsky admitted she was (naively) in love/infatuated with Clinton.

She didn't pretend it was rape. However, she blamed the media (hence the victim spotlight as you call it) for presenting her as the unscrupulous, evil seductrice and sexual corruptor as if Clinton was a powerless and silly/virgin boy.
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Old 20.12.2019, 11:13
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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I found the link to the article because then I wondered if I'd gone batty and imagined it all . Yup, it's highly unlikely but it could, in theory, happen.
Yes, if the Senate chose not to disqualify Trump (as has happened with the impeachment and removal of some judges in the past), and if Congress inexplicably decided to approve his appointment as VP... a tortuous path, but unfortunately not one he's likely to need to take.
  #20698  
Old 20.12.2019, 11:21
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Actually Lewinsky admitted she was (naively) in love/infatuated with Clinton.

She didn't pretend it was rape. However, she blamed the media (hence the victim spotlight as you call it) for presenting her as the unscrupulous, evil seductrice and sexual corruptor as if Clinton was a powerless and silly/virgin boy.
I absolutely agree, she's very clear that it was consensual, and not rape. Just pointing out that in the 90s being in love/infatuated with your charming boss - the most powerful man in the world - romantic encounters are just that.


Nowadays, if you are in love/infatuated with your powerful Boss, and this person of authority acts on it - it could be criminalized as a sex offense.



  #20699  
Old 20.12.2019, 11:34
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Nowadays, if you are in love/infatuated with your powerful Boss, and this person of authority acts on it - it could be criminalized as a sex offense.
Only if they're falsely accused of sexual harassment/rape etc.
Metoo movement didn't start because of these particular situations.
  #20700  
Old 20.12.2019, 11:35
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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I absolutely agree, she's very clear that it was consensual, and not rape. Just pointing out that in the 90s being in love/infatuated with your charming boss - the most powerful man in the world - romantic encounters are just that.


Nowadays, if you are in love/infatuated with your powerful Boss, and this person of authority acts on it - it could be criminalized as a sex offense.



Only if underage. She was not at the time.

Clinton was impeached because he lied under oath.
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