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View Poll Results: Will Trump be a good President?
Yes 93 26.50%
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  #21021  
Old 10.01.2020, 08:39
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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And btw, don't know why do you think it's acceptable to murder anyone - catch him, bring him to a court, gather evidence, even put him in Guantanamo if you like, but not this.
If one flounces international law in the way General Soleimani has (he wasnít even supposed to be in Iraq due to a UN imposed travel ban), then one canít expect international law to come to ones aid when itís required.
  #21022  
Old 10.01.2020, 08:56
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Not at all! You have to be directly involved in a fender bender in order to be given a share of the blame.
So a mechanic who didn't fix broken brakes before said fender bender would not be given a (large!) share of the blame?

Hmm.

Also, English Forum, so car accident, bump, prang, etc. Not Fender Bender.
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  #21023  
Old 10.01.2020, 08:57
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Very different degrees there. The USA made what many consider an unprovoked, unsanctioned and illegal attack against a nation state, Iran responded with some missiles, and then was on tenderhooks waiting for a USA response which they thought might cause serious damage (USA military technology is far in advance of their own so they were very rightly nervous and frightened of what could happen) and reasonably assumed would come in the form of an aircraft to attack them. This, in combination with Iranian incompetence, led directly to the 737 being shot down.

Trump of course didn't shoot the plane down, but his assassination led directly to the series of events that caused it and if he had not have done it then the plane would certainly not have been shot down.
Whatever has led to a series of events is totally irrelevant, that's the point. They made a mistake and shot an airplane down.

Totally comparable with the Malaysian plane shot down in Ukraine some years ago. Nobody cares about what led to the series of events. People only care about WHO shot the plane down.
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  #21024  
Old 10.01.2020, 09:04
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Don't you find Trump's reactions after the plane was hit (allegedly) way too calm for the kind of excitement he had us used to? I almost started to believe the assassination of this probably out-of-hand-too-powerful general was a joint venture. I believe both parts capable of this sort of heinous act...and we're commenting and lamenting here having no ing clue what's behind this shit. As always.

And btw, don't know why do you think it's acceptable to murder anyone - catch him, bring him to a court, gather evidence, even put him in Guantanamo if you like, but not this.
Trump showed no real feelings here. He has not learnt how to feel!
  #21025  
Old 10.01.2020, 09:05
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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If one flounces international law in the way General Soleimani has (he wasnít even supposed to be in Iraq due to a UN imposed travel ban), then one canít expect international law to come to ones aid when itís required.
So you are saying that if you are suspected of breaking a law you automatically lose all protections you have under those laws.
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  #21026  
Old 10.01.2020, 09:06
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Whatever has led to a series of events is totally irrelevant, that's the point. They made a mistake and shot an airplane down.

Totally comparable with the Malaysian plane shot down in Ukraine some years ago. Nobody cares about what led to the series of events. People only care about WHO shot the plane down.
Goodness grief, of course it's not "totally irrelevant" (seriously, think about how utterly illogical that statement is), the assassination event was a direct influence on this event. One would not have happened without the other. Lets just agree to disagree rather than waste time arguing this any further.
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  #21027  
Old 10.01.2020, 09:07
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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If one flounces international law in the way General Soleimani has (he wasnít even supposed to be in Iraq due to a UN imposed travel ban), then one canít expect international law to come to ones aid when itís required.
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So you are saying that if you are suspected of breaking a law you automatically lose all protections you have under those laws.
Depends what he means by "flounces". I'm guessing he's confusing it with "flouts".
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  #21028  
Old 10.01.2020, 09:08
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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If one flounces international law...
Flouts.

Dear oh dear, busy morning for us pedants this today. Must be Friday.
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  #21029  
Old 10.01.2020, 09:10
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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There's no point in arguing, the logic used here is bonkers. It would mean the US are also "partially" responsible for the Lockerbie bombing, or that Iran is also "partially" responsible for Iran Air Flight 655 being shot down. Totally crazy!

You could go back even further, donīt forget what the British and the yankees did to the Iranians, because the Iranians havnīt forgotten, not one teeny-tiny little bit.
Read up on the Anglo-Persian oil company, now known as BP and how with some very wet and messy help of the CIA they disposed of the Persian prime minister Mossadegh by means of a coup after which the Shah, again with help from the CIA and indeed Mossad, unleashed SAVAK and a regime of terror on the Iranians which then lead to the Ayatollah Komeini.
The Iranians and indeed the entire Moslem world have no reason to trust "the West" in any way or form, so yes in my opinion the US, the UK and the Jews are directly responsible for the wretched mess the middle east is in today.
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  #21030  
Old 10.01.2020, 09:18
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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fender bender .
A completely British response, not.
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  #21031  
Old 10.01.2020, 09:24
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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A completely British response, not.
Was thinking that myself.
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  #21032  
Old 10.01.2020, 09:42
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Was thinking that myself.
I am not British. I am allowed to use the English I grew up with.
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  #21033  
Old 10.01.2020, 09:45
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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I am not British. I am allowed to use the English I grew up with.
....which sort of English is that?
  #21034  
Old 10.01.2020, 09:48
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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The Iranians and indeed the entire Moslem world have no reason to trust "the West" in any way or form, so yes in my opinion the US, the UK and the Jews are directly responsible for the wretched mess the middle east is in today.
I'm sure you didn't intend this. But I don't think I'm being pedantic when I ask you to please, do not refer to Israel as "the Jews." It's inaccurate in that there are Jews all over the world and it confounds actions of a state with that of the ethnicity. It's not unlike Trump and his ilk super-imposing the actions of Al Qaeda or ISIS on all Muslims. Especially now, where the largest group advocating their support for the state of Israel are not Jewish, but Evangelical Christians living in the US (in some ways they are both anti-Semitic and zionist).

------

On your other point, I agree that the US, Russia, Saudia Arabia (+ other monarchs), Iran, and recently Israel all have some blame to go around. But IMO, the most important and regionally defining feature of the last 40 years of the middle east is the Saudia Arabia vs. Iran cold war. Every proxy war can be seen through this lens. Also, the Sunni/Shia rivalry really wasn't that violent until you had these wealthy two interest groups funding extremists on either side.
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  #21035  
Old 10.01.2020, 09:51
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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So you are saying that if you are suspected of breaking a law you automatically lose all protections you have under those laws.
No, what I am saying is that General Soleimani got what he deserved. He ignored international law habitually, just like the Iranian regime. International law only works when it is followed, selective adherence to it does not work, nor should it.

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the Jews
Oh dear oh dear
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  #21036  
Old 10.01.2020, 09:56
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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The Iranians and indeed the entire Moslem world have no reason to trust "the West" in any way or form, so yes in my opinion the US, the UK and the Jews are directly responsible for the wretched mess the middle east is in today.
You're too smart not to know that an American Jew (for instance) is an American like every American and not an Israeli? Seriously, please refrain from pointing a finger to an ethnicity and not a state/country, if that was indeed what you had in mind.

It's disturbing for people whose countries had a direct contribution to the Holocaust.
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  #21037  
Old 10.01.2020, 10:07
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Oh dear oh dear
Good that he didn't make a joke about a tennis player...
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  #21038  
Old 10.01.2020, 10:14
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Good that he didn't make a joke about a tennis player...
I found that "joke" old and in terribly bad taste tbh. And not even "realistic" (are any racist jokes...), men are way stronger than women - physically/endurance, yes, even a relatively mediocre 100 top male tennis player would beat Serena even though she looks like she could use a diet now...

Last edited by greenmount; 10.01.2020 at 10:27.
  #21039  
Old 10.01.2020, 10:14
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Good that he didn't make a joke about a tennis player...
Can you give me a list of ethnicities and professions that are fine to racially abuse please? Hard to keep up without one. So far:

OK
Black Female tennis players

Not OK:
Jews
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  #21040  
Old 10.01.2020, 10:15
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You're too smart not to know that an American Jew (for instance) is an American like every American and not an Israeli? Seriously, please refrain from pointing a finger to an ethnicity and not a state/country, if that was indeed what you had in mind.

It's disturbing for people whose countries had a direct contribution to the Holocaust.
I agree but I think the point he made is valid, despite the incorrect terminology. We shouldn't allow the choice of word to invalidate his otherwise good point.
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