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View Poll Results: Will Trump be a good President?
Yes 93 26.50%
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  #21021  
Old 09.01.2020, 20:15
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Isn't that dangerously close to looking at more complex solutions? That kind of talk where there is analysis, forward thinking and sensible investment gets railed against.
Of course, God forbid. There's always something better to do with the money....
  #21022  
Old 09.01.2020, 20:56
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Of course I’m right, it was clear almost from the moment it was reported that the plane had been shot down! Although how you can blame President Trump for these deaths is rather confusing.
Of course Trump is to blame. If he had not assassinated Solomeni then the shooting down of the plane would not have happened. If it was shot down it was the result of Trumps actions. 100% sure of that. The reason to assassinate him was based on another lie of this Admin. So Trump reaps the result of his deceit.
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  #21023  
Old 09.01.2020, 21:04
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Of course Trump is to blame. If he had not assassinated Solomeni then the shooting down of the plane would not have happened. If it was shot down it was the result of Trumps actions. 100% sure of that.
Trump would be to blame if the US would have missed in the assassination and would have hit the plane instead. But that didn't happen.
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  #21024  
Old 09.01.2020, 22:16
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Of course Trump is to blame. If he had not assassinated Solomeni then the shooting down of the plane would not have happened. If it was shot down it was the result of Trumps actions. 100% sure of that. The reason to assassinate him was based on another lie of this Admin. So Trump reaps the result of his deceit.
If General Soleimani wouldn’t have had a hand in exporting the vile, disgusting Shi’ism of the current Iranian regime. If he hadn’t had a hand in the destabilising of the Lebanon, the support of Hizbollah, terrorist attacks on Israel as well as other NATO soldiers, encouraging the Houthis in Yemen and Assad in Syria and every other Iranian regime backed stinking proxy conflict in the region, maybe then he wouldn’t wouldn’t have all that blood on his hands and then there would have been no reason to assassinate him. He himself is to blame for his own demise and by your reasoning, that plane getting shot down too!
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  #21025  
Old 10.01.2020, 06:19
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Trump would be to blame if the US would have missed in the assassination and would have hit the plane instead. But that didn't happen.
Trump is certainly partially to blame as without his 'spontaneous' decision to assassinate Irans top general (who was undoubtedly a heinous human being, but still...), with the resulting retaliation from Iran causing them to fear further escalations from the USA, then Iran would not have been on such a paranoid high alert that they blow a passenger jet out of the sky.

Trumps actions all directly led to this and I think it is fair to say that is he had not done what he did the plane would not have been shot down.
  #21026  
Old 10.01.2020, 07:18
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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If General Soleimani wouldn’t have had a hand in exporting the vile, disgusting Shi’ism of the current Iranian regime. If he hadn’t had a hand in the destabilising of the Lebanon, the support of Hizbollah, terrorist attacks on Israel as well as other NATO soldiers, encouraging the Houthis in Yemen and Assad in Syria and every other Iranian regime backed stinking proxy conflict in the region, maybe then he wouldn’t wouldn’t have all that blood on his hands and then there would have been no reason to assassinate him. He himself is to blame for his own demise and by your reasoning, that plane getting shot down too!
If you are going to single out a country in the region for exporting a toxic brand of Islam, then it’s not Iran you need to worry about, it’s Saudi Arabia. Our allies.
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  #21027  
Old 10.01.2020, 07:23
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Trump is certainly partially to blame as without his 'spontaneous' decision to assassinate Irans top general (who was undoubtedly a heinous human being, but still...), with the resulting retaliation from Iran causing them to fear further escalations from the USA, then Iran would not have been on such a paranoid high alert that they blow a passenger jet out of the sky.

Trumps actions all directly led to this and I think it is fair to say that is he had not done what he did the plane would not have been shot down.
So then Trump is also responsible for the people that died during the guy's funeral?
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  #21028  
Old 10.01.2020, 08:00
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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So then Trump is also responsible for the people that died during the guy's funeral?
There's no point in arguing, the logic used here is bonkers. It would mean the US are also "partially" responsible for the Lockerbie bombing, or that Iran is also "partially" responsible for Iran Air Flight 655 being shot down. Totally crazy!
  #21029  
Old 10.01.2020, 08:19
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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So then Trump bears some responsability for the people that died during the guy's funeral?
If Trump had not had him assassinated, then the funeral wouldn’t have taken place. Q.E.D. Trump has some responsibility for those deaths.

Now is Trump responsible for the deaths on the 737? That’s more of a stretch, but if the assassination hadn’t taken place ...
  #21030  
Old 10.01.2020, 08:22
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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So then Trump is also responsible for the people that died during the guy's funeral?
Very different degrees there. The USA made what many consider an unprovoked, unsanctioned and illegal attack against a nation state, Iran responded with some missiles, and then was on tenderhooks waiting for a USA response which they thought might cause serious damage (USA military technology is far in advance of their own so they were very rightly nervous and frightened of what could happen) and reasonably assumed would come in the form of an aircraft to attack them. This, in combination with Iranian incompetence, led directly to the 737 being shot down.

Trump of course didn't shoot the plane down, but his assassination led directly to the series of events that caused it and if he had not have done it then the plane would certainly not have been shot down.

Last edited by Chuff; 10.01.2020 at 08:37.
  #21031  
Old 10.01.2020, 08:24
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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If General Soleimani wouldn’t have had a hand in exporting the vile, disgusting Shi’ism of the current Iranian regime. If he hadn’t had a hand in the destabilising of the Lebanon, the support of Hizbollah, terrorist attacks on Israel as well as other NATO soldiers, encouraging the Houthis in Yemen and Assad in Syria and every other Iranian regime backed stinking proxy conflict in the region, maybe then he wouldn’t wouldn’t have all that blood on his hands and then there would have been no reason to assassinate him. He himself is to blame for his own demise and by your reasoning, that plane getting shot down too!
Don't you find Trump's reactions after the plane was hit (allegedly) way too calm for the kind of excitement he had us used to? I almost started to believe the assassination of this probably out-of-hand-too-powerful general was a joint venture. I believe both parts capable of this sort of heinous act...and we're commenting and lamenting here having no ing clue what's behind this shit. As always.

And btw, don't know why do you think it's acceptable to murder anyone - catch him, bring him to a court, gather evidence, even put him in Guantanamo if you like, but not this.
  #21032  
Old 10.01.2020, 08:26
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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There's no point in arguing, the logic used here is bonkers. It would mean the US are also "partially" responsible for the Lockerbie bombing, or that Iran is also "partially" responsible for Iran Air Flight 655 being shot down. Totally crazy!
But you are right in both cases. They are not totally responsible but they do bear some responsibility.

Just like a fender bender in Switzerland.
  #21033  
Old 10.01.2020, 08:33
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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But you are right in both cases. They are not totally responsible but they do bear some responsibility.

Just like a fender bender in Switzerland.
Not at all! You have to be directly involved in a fender bender in order to be given a share of the blame.
  #21034  
Old 10.01.2020, 08:39
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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And btw, don't know why do you think it's acceptable to murder anyone - catch him, bring him to a court, gather evidence, even put him in Guantanamo if you like, but not this.
If one flounces international law in the way General Soleimani has (he wasn’t even supposed to be in Iraq due to a UN imposed travel ban), then one can’t expect international law to come to ones aid when it’s required.
  #21035  
Old 10.01.2020, 08:56
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Not at all! You have to be directly involved in a fender bender in order to be given a share of the blame.
So a mechanic who didn't fix broken brakes before said fender bender would not be given a (large!) share of the blame?

Hmm.

Also, English Forum, so car accident, bump, prang, etc. Not Fender Bender.
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  #21036  
Old 10.01.2020, 08:57
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Very different degrees there. The USA made what many consider an unprovoked, unsanctioned and illegal attack against a nation state, Iran responded with some missiles, and then was on tenderhooks waiting for a USA response which they thought might cause serious damage (USA military technology is far in advance of their own so they were very rightly nervous and frightened of what could happen) and reasonably assumed would come in the form of an aircraft to attack them. This, in combination with Iranian incompetence, led directly to the 737 being shot down.

Trump of course didn't shoot the plane down, but his assassination led directly to the series of events that caused it and if he had not have done it then the plane would certainly not have been shot down.
Whatever has led to a series of events is totally irrelevant, that's the point. They made a mistake and shot an airplane down.

Totally comparable with the Malaysian plane shot down in Ukraine some years ago. Nobody cares about what led to the series of events. People only care about WHO shot the plane down.
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  #21037  
Old 10.01.2020, 09:04
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Don't you find Trump's reactions after the plane was hit (allegedly) way too calm for the kind of excitement he had us used to? I almost started to believe the assassination of this probably out-of-hand-too-powerful general was a joint venture. I believe both parts capable of this sort of heinous act...and we're commenting and lamenting here having no ing clue what's behind this shit. As always.

And btw, don't know why do you think it's acceptable to murder anyone - catch him, bring him to a court, gather evidence, even put him in Guantanamo if you like, but not this.
Trump showed no real feelings here. He has not learnt how to feel!
  #21038  
Old 10.01.2020, 09:05
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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If one flounces international law in the way General Soleimani has (he wasn’t even supposed to be in Iraq due to a UN imposed travel ban), then one can’t expect international law to come to ones aid when it’s required.
So you are saying that if you are suspected of breaking a law you automatically lose all protections you have under those laws.
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  #21039  
Old 10.01.2020, 09:06
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Whatever has led to a series of events is totally irrelevant, that's the point. They made a mistake and shot an airplane down.

Totally comparable with the Malaysian plane shot down in Ukraine some years ago. Nobody cares about what led to the series of events. People only care about WHO shot the plane down.
Goodness grief, of course it's not "totally irrelevant" (seriously, think about how utterly illogical that statement is), the assassination event was a direct influence on this event. One would not have happened without the other. Lets just agree to disagree rather than waste time arguing this any further.
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  #21040  
Old 10.01.2020, 09:07
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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If one flounces international law in the way General Soleimani has (he wasn’t even supposed to be in Iraq due to a UN imposed travel ban), then one can’t expect international law to come to ones aid when it’s required.
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So you are saying that if you are suspected of breaking a law you automatically lose all protections you have under those laws.
Depends what he means by "flounces". I'm guessing he's confusing it with "flouts".
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