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View Poll Results: Will Trump be a good President?
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  #21101  
Old 10.01.2020, 22:16
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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The only solution is democracy, but this has to come from within the region organically. This is the only way the West can assist, which is the great tragedy of the Arab spring, where the West had the opportunity to support the uprisings both directly and indirectly, and yet did nothing.
What was the West supposed to do? Interfere in those countries? You said democracy should grow organically....from within. What if people don't want to be "helped" = have a passive role? Anyways, it seems a bit hypocritical. Nobody really cares about Middle East unless it affects them directly or can take advantage somehow.
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  #21102  
Old 10.01.2020, 23:00
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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What was the West supposed to do? Interfere in those countries? You said democracy should grow organically....from within. What if people don't want to be "helped" = have a passive role? Anyways, it seems a bit hypocritical. Nobody really cares about Middle East unless it affects them directly or can take advantage somehow.
This is the million dollar question! I don’t have a dog in this fight; in the Middle East all the regimes are as despicable as each other in my view. Neither do I care for Western “interests” there. What I do care about though is the people that live there and the suffering they have to endure.

There has been no coherent policy Western policy in the Middle East for about 15 years now. The Obama administration certainly didn’t have one, and unfortunately neither does President Trump. The EU is also pathetic in this regard; they care more about doing business with Iran rather than the human rights of the people that live there!

I would like to support President Trump’s idea to withdraw troops as for too long the West has been in the Middle East getting blamed for the problems there. However I know were troops to be withdrawn then it would leave the region open to the next militant group to seize control. Under the current circumstances this would likely be Iranian state backed and they would do what they always do, which is to kill, imprison and torture people. In the interests of human rights, it is important that troops are kept in the Middle East, the aim should still be to withdraw them eventually.

The ideal outcome is that the West stops pandering to these dictatorships. They fear though that China and Russia wait in the wings, which is the why it was such a tragedy that the opportunity in 2011 was missed! There is a small glimmer of hope though, President Trump made a very good point this week, which is also true, that the US is both energy independent and the Dollar remains the undisputed world reserve currency. The EU on the other hand will remain political lightweights in world politics as long they can’t match the US in these two areas. Now I only wish the US would use this position to assist the people of the Middle East more!
  #21103  
Old 10.01.2020, 23:14
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

More rubbish from the Trump administration today from White House spokesman Hogan Gidley
Quote:
Soleimani was, in fact, planning "imminent attacks."
While Democrats and the media quibble over its definition, quick point: When Obama killed bin Laden, al-Awlaki and Gaddafi, without Congressional approval, there were NO "imminent attacks" and Democrats did not ask or care.

— Hogan Gidley (@hogangidley45) January 10, 2020
One of several replies from US Senators
Quote:
Like, just do a google search, man.

Obama didn't kill Gaddafi. Libyans did.

Obama didn't need to claim an "imminent attack" in either the al-Awlaki or bin Laden killing.

You know why? Because there was explicit congressional approval to target Al Qaeda leaders. [The Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Terrorists (AUMF), Pub. L. 107-40]

— Chris Murphy (@ChrisMurphyCT) January 10, 2020
The essence of the Republican Party in 2020 is to reject facts in favor of "What sounds good to an arena of fired up people who don't care about facts?"
  #21104  
Old 10.01.2020, 23:45
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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This is the million dollar question! I don’t have a dog in this fight; in the Middle East all the regimes are as despicable as each other in my view. Neither do I care for Western “interests” there. What I do care about though is the people that live there and the suffering they have to endure.

There has been no coherent policy Western policy in the Middle East for about 15 years now. The Obama administration certainly didn’t have one, and unfortunately neither does President Trump. The EU is also pathetic in this regard; they care more about doing business with Iran rather than the human rights of the people that live there!

I would like to support President Trump’s idea to withdraw troops as for too long the West has been in the Middle East getting blamed for the problems there. However I know were troops to be withdrawn then it would leave the region open to the next militant group to seize control. Under the current circumstances this would likely be Iranian state backed and they would do what they always do, which is to kill, imprison and torture people. In the interests of human rights, it is important that troops are kept in the Middle East, the aim should still be to withdraw them eventually.

The ideal outcome is that the West stops pandering to these dictatorships. They fear though that China and Russia wait in the wings, which is the why it was such a tragedy that the opportunity in 2011 was missed! There is a small glimmer of hope though, President Trump made a very good point this week, which is also true, that the US is both energy independent and the Dollar remains the undisputed world reserve currency. The EU, on the other hand, will remain political lightweights in world politics as long they can’t match the US in these two areas. Now I only wish the US would use this position to assist the people of the Middle East more!
AAMOF, the US is not energy independent; it still imports around 200 million barrels of oil per month.
The reason is that there are different types of crude oil so different types of end products and oil refineries are mostly built to handle just one type of crude oil and produce one set of end products.
It would be a huge and long term investment to build new refineries and close some of the existing ones.
Basically the US produces mostly light crude oil and has to import the heavier grades.

Trump's statement was somewhere between an oversimplification and nonsense.
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  #21105  
Old 11.01.2020, 07:34
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

Iran admits shooting down the plane: https://twitter.com/HassanRouhani/st...56679423823872

Very respectful to admit such a disastrous mistake and apologize!
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  #21106  
Old 11.01.2020, 07:54
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

Indeed. While it certainly was a terrible mistake, at least after a short while they admit their wrongdoings.

On the contrary..

"Three years after the incident, Admiral Crowe admitted on American television show Nightline that Vincennes was inside Iranian territorial waters when it launched the missiles."

The US never admitted that officially and didn't accept their mistake, and only paid peanut compensation after 8 years (afaik only about 200k USD per killed person)

Bush Sr. even run his campaign based on "I will never apologise"

Iran still is run by a terrible regime I'd not support a single meter. But compared to Trump, they look reasonable (also taking in account their response to the two attacks against their top staff members). And that's quite something for an islamic regime.
  #21107  
Old 11.01.2020, 08:16
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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The US never admitted that officially and didn't accept their mistake, and only paid peanut compensation after 8 years (afaik only about 200k USD per killed person)
The crash victims of the 2 Boeing’s 737 Maxes will receive $166k.

IKEA will pay $46m to the US family of a child who suffocated after pulling a chest of drawers onto himself.

Apparently, you can put a dollar value on life.

On the USS Vincennes, the missile launch officer received a commendation and medal for his ‘efficiency and competency’ in shooting down a commercial aircraft.
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  #21108  
Old 11.01.2020, 09:26
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Iran admits shooting down the plane: https://twitter.com/HassanRouhani/st...56679423823872

Very respectful to admit such a disastrous mistake and apologize!
Wouldn't have been more respectful to admit it the first time?
It would have been very stupid not to do so eventually. Zelensky wants full admission, apologies and compensations now...
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  #21109  
Old 11.01.2020, 10:04
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Wouldn't have been more respectful to admit it the first time?
It would have been very stupid not to do so eventually. Zelensky wants full admission, apologies and compensations now...
Tell him to queue behind the victims of Iran Air 655 for those apologies and admission ...
  #21110  
Old 11.01.2020, 10:21
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

Oh dear oh dear, the apologists are already out in force! It is not respectful to admit a mistake after shooting down an airliner that has taken off from your country’s main airport, saying it crashed due to “engine failure”, then blaming Donald Trump, before saying it was human error. They are only admitting to it because we thankfully live in an age where social media holds these people to account.

It is also ridiculous to suggest that the Iranian regime looks reasonable compared to Donald Trump. Donald Trump doesn’t round up and kill protesters. Again thank God that people with these views never get anywhere near power!
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  #21111  
Old 11.01.2020, 10:23
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Tell him to queue behind the victims of Iran Air 655 for those apologies and admission ...
I see. It's like religion: my victims are better than your victims.

Good that both Trump and Iranian regime have cut the BS for a while and we won't have WW3....

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Oh dear oh dear, the apologists are already out in force! It is not respectful to admit a mistake after shooting down an airliner that has taken off from your country’s main airport, saying it crashed due to “engine failure”, then blaming Donald Trump, before saying it was human error. They are only admitting to it because we thankfully live in an age where social media holds these people to account.
!
The all-so-powerful "social media" you think? I can see why forumists tend to believe that. lol
No, the evidence was out there, that was all.
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  #21112  
Old 11.01.2020, 10:29
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Oh dear oh dear, the apologists are already out in force! It is not respectful to admit a mistake after shooting down an airliner that has taken off from your country’s main airport, saying it crashed due to “engine failure”, then blaming Donald Trump, before saying it was human error. They are only admitting to it because we thankfully live in an age where social media holds these people to account.

It is also ridiculous to suggest that the Iranian regime looks reasonable compared to Donald Trump. Donald Trump doesn’t round up and kill protesters. Again thank God that people with these views never get anywhere near power!
Surely social media is banned in Iran so how does it hold Iran to account?
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  #21113  
Old 11.01.2020, 10:37
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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I see. It's like religion: my victims are better than your victims.
It’s all ‘forgiveness’, ‘turn the other cheek’ and ‘love thy neighbour’ but only when it suits, and chimes with your own world view.

Thank God my arse.
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  #21114  
Old 11.01.2020, 10:57
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Wouldn't have been more respectful to admit it the first time?
It would have been very stupid not to do so eventually. Zelensky wants full admission, apologies and compensations now...
Yes, I agree. But they could have put up a smoke curtain like Ukraine and Russia did in the Air Malaysia crash. Also, this exposes them and makes them liable.

Last but not least, if not even the Iranians themselves blame the US, then that theory must be extremely silly😀
  #21115  
Old 11.01.2020, 10:58
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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It’s all ‘forgiveness’, ‘turn the other cheek’ and ‘love thy neighbour’ but only when it suits, and chimes with your own world view.

Thank God my arse.
You are not the first to point that out..

Luke 11:37-38

Mathew 15:1-2

Luke 11:39-40

Luke 11:41

Luke 11:42

*found an article with the right quotations, in case you wonder...
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  #21116  
Old 11.01.2020, 11:02
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Yes, I agree. But they could have put up a smoke curtain like Ukraine and Russia did in the Air Malaysia crash. Also, this exposes them and makes them liable.

Last but not least, if not even the Iranians themselves blame the US, then that theory must be extremely silly��
Admitting the error with the Ukrainian plane, blaming the Americans is a different matter.

My point was that I don't find these apologies particularly respectful or sincere. But that's just my opinion.

Glad that both parties seem to have toned down the bellicose discourses though. The last thing the world needs is yet another war in Middle East.

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  #21117  
Old 11.01.2020, 11:12
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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The all-so-powerful "social media" you think? I can see why forumists tend to believe that. lol
No, the evidence was out there, that was all.
Bellingcat identified the launch site of the missile within a day. There were many videos circulating on social media of the crash and of the middle hitting the plane. It’s hard to deny something when everyone can see what’s happened!
  #21118  
Old 11.01.2020, 11:23
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

Thanks to Trump the chance of an IRS audit could be minimized.
  #21119  
Old 11.01.2020, 12:07
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Oh dear oh dear, the apologists are already out in force! It is not respectful to admit a mistake after shooting down an airliner that has taken off from your country’s main airport, saying it crashed due to “engine failure”, then blaming Donald Trump, before saying it was human error. They are only admitting to it because we thankfully live in an age where social media holds these people to account.
. . .
I guess the chain of command between those who were responsible for the missile defense system near Iran International Airport and the political leadership was not fully intact. Such things can happen when military leaders are assassinated and during the resulting hightend tensions. In an information vacuum, all sorts of theories are expounded.

If the Iranian leadership follow the example of that of the US leadership in the case of the USS Vincennes shooting down of Iran Air Flight 655, they will be seeking out the person responsible for accidental missile launch to award him a medal.

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. . .
It is also ridiculous to suggest that the Iranian regime looks reasonable compared to Donald Trump. Donald Trump doesn’t round up and kill protesters. Again thank God that people with these views never get anywhere near power!
At what stage does God interpose himself in the selection of political leaders and which side is he on in the US v. Iran confrontation ?
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  #21120  
Old 11.01.2020, 12:49
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Bellingcat identified the launch site of the missile within a day. There were many videos circulating on social media of the crash and of the middle hitting the plane. It’s hard to deny something when everyone can see what’s happened!
The same story of the Russian downing of the Malaysian plane with videos etc. but the Russians still deny it.
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