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View Poll Results: Will Trump be a good President?
Yes 88 27.16%
No 236 72.84%
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  #21161  
Old 12.01.2020, 10:37
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Immoral activities like being Japanese?
If you have to go back nearly 80 YEARS to find something that doesn’t even go a fraction of the way to comparing to the despicable actions of this Iranian Regime then you don’t have an argument.
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  #21162  
Old 12.01.2020, 10:38
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Then explain the purpose to this illiterate the continued bringing up an event from over 30 years ago that not one person has defended.
Again, stop stirring the pot.
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  #21163  
Old 12.01.2020, 10:47
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Then explain the purpose to this illiterate the continued bringing up an event from over 30 years ago that not one person has defended.
To simplify it, consider the expression, ‘Those who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones’.

It’s not difficult because everyone on the thread seems to have grasped it except you.

Shouting about the Iranians and their rough justice, dubious practices and all, regardless of how far back you go in modern history is all fine until you attempt to whitewash and romanticise other nations’ histories to suit your narrative just because, in your case, you are siding more with the US instead of looking at each country objectively.

Hope that finally brings you up to speed on this thread.
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  #21164  
Old 12.01.2020, 10:48
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Then explain the purpose to this illiterate the continued bringing up an event from over 30 years ago that not one person has defended.
You're obviously not an illiterate, but probably not British as you claimed to be on the Brexit thread....in my humble opinion, as English is not my first language either. A lot of people have British/American/insert nationality passports as naturalised immigrants or second/third generation immigrants and that is super OK, don't know why people tend to hide this stuff. It gives a bit of perspective as to why they hold dear some opinions/biases though.
So if you're not British is OK, we can all opine on that circus called Brexit. We don't need a pass for that.

Also, the reactions here are triggered by the fact that you seem to favour war and to revere Trump, no matter what he does or says.
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  #21165  
Old 12.01.2020, 10:51
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Then explain the purpose to this illiterate the continued bringing up an event from over 30 years ago that not one person has defended.
Why should I (or anyone else)? It seems to be only you that thinks that bringing up counter-examples for comparison is the same thing as defending an action. Not our problem, except that you continue to argue with opinions or statements that were not actually made.

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You're obviously not an illiterate, but probably not British as you claimed to be on the Brexit thread...
(FWIW, from a native speaker, I haven't seen anything in the language used to suggest this. Any 'misunderstanding' is clearly deliberate and just trying to play the semantic argument card).
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  #21166  
Old 12.01.2020, 11:04
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Imagine if the US rounded up and arrested people for "immoral activities", or if the US arrested and tortured protesters, or if the US oppressed women, or if the US hanged gay people from cranes, or if political opponents of the "oligarchy" in the US were executed, imagine then, you may have had some justification for your outrageous argument!
Or if the US separated young children from their families, locked them in cages without adequate medical support, food, and drink. Then finally lost their details so they could not reunite them with their families.
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  #21167  
Old 12.01.2020, 11:09
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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If you have to go back nearly 80 YEARS to find something that doesn’t even go a fraction of the way to comparing to the despicable actions of this Iranian Regime then you don’t have an argument.
There are still plenty of people living who were interred by the USA, I think that makes it recent enough.

If you want something more recent where the US rounded people up, imprisoned them without trial and illegally tortured them? How's about Guantanamo?
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  #21168  
Old 12.01.2020, 11:11
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Or if the US separated young children from their families, locked them in cages without adequate medical support, food, and drink. Then finally lost their details so they could not reunite them with their families.
The last lynching in the US is less than 40 years ago. Some introspection is needed.

Since we have a few religious preachers on here (well one), log, speck etc.
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  #21169  
Old 12.01.2020, 11:20
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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(FWIW, from a native speaker, I haven't seen anything in the language used to suggest this. Any 'misunderstanding' is clearly deliberate and just trying to play the semantic argument card).
There's been quite a bit, IIRC.
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  #21170  
Old 12.01.2020, 12:22
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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If you have to go back nearly 80 YEARS to find something that doesn’t even go a fraction of the way to comparing to the despicable actions of this Iranian Regime then you don’t have an argument.
You mentioned oppression of women. Have you had a look at the new abortion laws in Alabama? Looking at the whole population, do you have any idea of the incarceration rate in the US? For an even more impressive figure, how about the rate of imprisonment among black people?

The land of the free (and fair) it is not.
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  #21171  
Old 12.01.2020, 12:32
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

Meantime in Iran
Quote:
British ambassador arrested at Tehran demonstration
UK foreign secretary calls action against Robert Macaire a ‘flagrant violation’ of international law


Macaire was said to be “safe and well” in the British embassy after he was released after more than an hour in custody. His arrest came as a wave of anti-government demonstrations broke out across the country following the admission Iranian forces had accidentally brought down a Ukrainian airliner killing all 176 people on board.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...tehran-reports
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  #21172  
Old 12.01.2020, 13:33
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Also, the reactions here are triggered by the fact that you seem to favour war and to revere Trump, no matter what he does or says.
You cannot come to this conclusion when I have offered up nothing, NOTHING on my opinion of President Trump or US foreign policy!

Allow me to spell it out for you, it is possible:

To not like President Trump
To be happy the General Soleimani is dead
To be unsure as to the reasons the decision was taken, yet glad it has been taken
To hope to avoid further conflict as a result of the assassination, yet be confident there will be none
To be concerned about the Iranian people

It is possible to hold all these views simultaneously. None of them are exclusive.
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  #21173  
Old 12.01.2020, 13:35
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Why should I (or anyone else)? It seems to be only you that thinks that bringing up counter-examples for comparison is the same thing as defending an action. Not our problem, except that you continue to argue with opinions or statements that were not actually made.
Counter-examples offered up for comparisons to serve what purpose?
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  #21174  
Old 12.01.2020, 13:53
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Counter-examples offered up for comparisons to serve what purpose?
You missed the point, yet again.

You accuse anyone offering comparisons and counter examples of lauding the Iranian regime.
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  #21175  
Old 12.01.2020, 14:02
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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You cannot come to this conclusion when I have offered up nothing, NOTHING on my opinion of President Trump or US foreign policy!

Allow me to spell it out for you, it is possible:

To not like President Trump
Oh goodness, I'm not going to dig into your older posts now to quote exactly where did you imply or "spell it out" your full support for President Trump (or call it what you want). Enough with this tiring discussion. You're entitled to your opinions, likes or dislikes. Like the rest of us.
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  #21176  
Old 12.01.2020, 14:03
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Imagine if the US rounded up and arrested people for "immoral activities", or if the US arrested and tortured protesters, or if the US oppressed women, or if the US hanged gay people from cranes, or if political opponents of the "oligarchy" in the US were executed, imagine then, you may have had some justification for your outrageous argument!
Different countries have rules defined in their legal systems. In some cases those rules conflict the expectations of those who are brought up under a different legal system. By selectively choosing a few examples, you are attempting to present one system as better that another without considering the other viewpoint. Only one thing is clear. These systems are different. Further, some people have values which are not wholly derived from their legal system (say from religion) and also make judgements also according to those values. However, generally people as individuals and irrespective of their government are peace loving and hate war mongering, bullying, unfairness, lying, hypocrisy and call it out when the see it.

So, now, let's go through your examples:

1. arrest for immoral activities.
You think this should never happen ? Search for the issues related to Jeffrey Epstein.
Or, if you are religious, look at the biblical cautionary tale of Sodom and Gomorrah.

2. torture of prisoners.
Search for Guantanamo Bay (Those are the lucky ones that were not arbitrarily executed)

3. Oppression of women
Look at Saudi Arabia, a revered US ally.

4. Death penalty/treatment of political opponents
Hanging from a crane is worse than being torn apart by a missile fired from a drone ?


Now look at a just one or two example which you failed to address.

1. War mongering
Look at Afghanistan, Syria, Iraq, Yemen, Somalia, Lebanon etc. etc.
Look at Madeline Albright justifying the deaths of 500,000 Iraqi children

2. Bullying
Sanctions against a gas pipe line infrastructure.

3. Unfairness
16 years in prison for burning a flag.

4. Hypocrisy
Search for Jamal Khashoggi and the treatment of Saudi Arabia in the aftermath.

5. Lying
Look at what we are expected to believe about the election of Donald Trump.

If you need references to support any examples, just say so.
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  #21177  
Old 12.01.2020, 14:32
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Or being a Mexican child?
Quote:
Immoral activities like being Japanese?
Quote:
There are still plenty of people living who were interred by the USA, I think that makes it recent enough.

If you want something more recent where the US rounded people up, imprisoned them without trial and illegally tortured them? How's about Guantanamo?
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You mentioned oppression of women. Have you had a look at the new abortion laws in Alabama? Looking at the whole population, do you have any idea of the incarceration rate in the US? For an even more impressive figure, how about the rate of imprisonment among black people?

The land of the free (and fair) it is not.
None of this has anything to do with the current situation in Iran, none of it. Why does it keep getting brought up?! Look, it is possible to view the situation in Iran without everything having to go through a prism of a dislike of President Trump and/or America. It is possible to discuss what is currently going on in the Middle East without dragging up ancient history to prove some yet to be made unspoken point (which we all know what it is).

I don't care what you think about America's history, I don't care what you think about President Trump. I care about the Iranian people, I care that a plane has been shot down through sheer incompetence. Will Iran be properly held to account for shooting down a passenger plane? Of course not, because NO ONE is ever properly held to account for shooting down a passenger plane! But that doesn't make it right!

I don't think President Trump thought through his assassination of General Soleimani, but I don't care about that either! What I care about is the result. Iran have FINALLY been held to account for their proxies and their terrorism. This move has shown, whether intentionally or not, that in future they will be held directly responsible for their terrorist actions. It also shows that even dumb orange Presidents can be right sometimes!

I'm sick of this binary judgement of everything, the inability to judge things for what they are. The entitlement it shows is just breathtaking. And I'm sure you'll all be scratching your heads when President Trump waltzes back into the White House later on this year.

Meanwhile the brave people of Iran are out risking their lives to protest the incompetent shooting down of a plane by their dictatorial regime. Keep and eye on them it could be a turning point. In the small possibility that it is, will the same people blaming President Trump for the downing of the plane be praising him as the catalyst that led to the overthrow of a dictatorship?

Anyway, I'm outta here. Enjoy your doing down of the US and President Trump.
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  #21178  
Old 12.01.2020, 14:35
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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i'm sick of this binary judgement of everything, the inability to judge things for what they are. The entitlement it shows is just breathtaking.
Hilarious
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  #21179  
Old 12.01.2020, 14:59
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

Iran is the world's last rogue state. Supporting terrorism openly and trying to become a nuclear power, with the intention of destroying Israel.


If the sanctions do not work, then the US are going to have to deal with them.


I hope it's not Trump that does it, but as he's got another 5 years to run, who knows.
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Old 12.01.2020, 15:24
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Meanwhile the brave people of Iran are out risking their lives to protest the incompetent shooting down of a plane by their dictatorial regime. Keep and eye on them it could be a turning point. In the small possibility that it is, will the same people blaming President Trump for the downing of the plane be praising him as the catalyst that led to the overthrow of a dictatorship?
While you're there be careful with whom or what you replace that dictatorship...
Or perhaps that is irrelevant as long as we can claim the "wind of change"? I'm guessing consulting Russia is pending....

Last edited by greenmount; 12.01.2020 at 15:46.
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