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  #21741  
Old 24.03.2020, 21:38
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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I‘ve read reports suggesting a slightly different reality. However it seems that there are ongoing negotiations in the senate but yes, the house bill may need some work.

Unfortunately, tha addition of pork is a long standing tradition on both sides of the aisle. They‘re not going to change now.
And your last edit??? Sorry...but shame on Dems in my view and I am Independent for the record and NOT a Trumper. Pelosi and her puppet Schumer could give a rat's ass about small business, the economy at large and soon to be (if not already) laid off workers! Shame on them

They only care about changing the electoral college by adding in voter registrations (because they need the votes to secure the next election!)- not to mention green gas emissions and racial diversity on Corporate Boards How pathetic on all levels that they pad in their own agenda when the American populace/notwithstanding economy is at stake! Beyond pathetic...

Partisan politics at its worst. And who suffers? The poor, the middle class workers and small businesses! So sad about the state of politics in the US ...Enough of my rant!!
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  #21742  
Old 24.03.2020, 21:50
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That's the problem with being able to tack anything - relevant or not - on to a bill. How do you think FATCA got through? Part of the HIRE act.
And so given this crisis, which we have not experienced since 2008 ( but to be fair more like 1918), you are drawing a correlation with partisan adds ons to a bill when our country lies in economic crisis/chaos? Pretty sure the FACTA was not introduced when the crisis in 2008 emerged. Just checked and Obama signed it in 2010
  #21743  
Old 24.03.2020, 22:06
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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And your last edit??? Sorry...but shame on Dems in my view and I am Independent for the record and NOT a Trumper. Pelosi and her puppet Schumer could give a rat's ass about small business, the economy at large and soon to be (if not already) laid off workers! Shame on them

They only care about changing the electoral college by adding in voter registrations (because they need the votes to secure the next election!)- not to mention green gas emissions and racial diversity on Corporate Boards How pathetic on all levels that they pad in their own agenda when the American populace/notwithstanding economy is at stake! Beyond pathetic...

Partisan politics at its worst. And who suffers? The poor, the middle class workers and small businesses! So sad about the state of politics in the US ...Enough of my rant!!

The Senate bill gives money to citizens with conditions and nearly 500 billion to aid companies, and governmental institutions with little to no oversight. Just bail out the top again? I don‘t know, but I‘m not convinced this will do enough for the American populace. Small businesses, the dwindling middle class are just as screwed by this crap.

I‘m an unaffiliated voter, by the way, not that it matters.

It‘s been a long, frustrating day, I’ve had enough of people ranting. Good night.
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  #21744  
Old 24.03.2020, 22:11
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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The Senate bill gives money to citizens with conditions and nearly 500 billion to aid companies, and governmental institutions with little to no oversight. Just bail out the top again? I don‘t know, but I‘m not convinced this will do enough for the American populace. Small businesses, the dwindling middle class are just as screwed by this crap.

I‘m an unaffiliated voter, by the way, not that it matters.

It‘s been a long, frustrating day, I’ve had enough of people ranting. Good night.


I think you need to examine the bill more closely or take a closer look at the sources you read...
  #21745  
Old 24.03.2020, 22:13
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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I think you need to examine the bill more closely or take a closer look at the sources you read...
Give it a rest. I‘m happy with my sources, not in the mood for the snide little smiley.
  #21746  
Old 24.03.2020, 22:15
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Give it a rest. I‘m happy with my sources, not in the mood for the snide little smiley.
Wasn't snide by the way! I was trying to be polite... Good night to you as well!
  #21747  
Old 24.03.2020, 22:16
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Give it a rest. I‘m happy with my sources, not in the mood for the snide little smiley.
Relax, tomorrow is another day.
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  #21748  
Old 24.03.2020, 22:18
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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And so given this crisis, which we have not experienced since 2008 ( but to be fair more like 1918), you are drawing a correlation with partisan adds ons to a bill when our country lies in economic crisis/chaos? Pretty sure the FACTA was not introduced when the crisis in 2008 emerged. Just checked and Obama signed it in 2010
The point is adding things to bills that aren't relevant to them - as you pointed out. Far too many things get slipped into bills because they wouldn't get past Congress in any other way.
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Old 24.03.2020, 22:20
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

You may be interested in Paul Krugman’s analysis of the Senate bill


https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/23/o...ronavirus.html

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If you want a quick summary of the state of play over fiscal stimulus legislation, here it is: Republicans insist that we should fight a plague with trickle-down economics and crony capitalism. Democrats, for some reason, don’t agree, and think we should focus on directly helping Americans in need.

And if legislation is stalled, as it appears to be as I write this (although things change fast when we’re on Covid time), it’s because Mitch McConnell, the Senate majority leader, is holding needy Americans hostage in an attempt to blackmail Democrats into giving Donald Trump a $500 billion slush fund.
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  #21750  
Old 24.03.2020, 22:21
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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You may be interested in Paul Krugman’s analysis of the Senate bill


https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/23/o...ronavirus.html
Exactly. Thanks for that.
  #21751  
Old 24.03.2020, 22:21
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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And your last edit??? Sorry...but shame on Dems in my view and I am Independent for the record and NOT a Trumper. Pelosi and her puppet Schumer could give a rat's ass about small business, the economy at large and soon to be (if not already) laid off workers! Shame on them

They only care about changing the electoral college by adding in voter registrations (because they need the votes to secure the next election!)- not to mention green gas emissions and racial diversity on Corporate Boards How pathetic on all levels that they pad in their own agenda when the American populace/notwithstanding economy is at stake! Beyond pathetic...

Partisan politics at its worst. And who suffers? The poor, the middle class workers and small businesses! So sad about the state of politics in the US ...Enough of my rant!!
Can you give an actual reference in the proposed Bill to the stuff you do not like?
You can read the text of the Bill here
https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-...bill/6201/text
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  #21752  
Old 24.03.2020, 22:29
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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You may be interested in Paul Krugman’s analysis of the Senate bill


https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/23/o...ronavirus.html
Sorry...but do you not think Krugman has an agenda?? And this before I read your linked article... As if Krugman is unbiased...hmmm!!!

Wait...let me go onto a Fox News network and post an article from one of their pundits...

Better yet, here is the WSJ opinion article: I will copy and paste as one may need a subscription to read:

What a spectacle. Much of America is quarantined at home, the public is so panicked there’s a run on toilet paper, the country desperately wants reassurance, and Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer decide to take a bipartisan rescue bill as a political hostage.

That’s the display of Democratic leadership in a crisis the nation received on Monday as Senate Democrats blocked a $1.8 trillion bill that has urgent money for workers, hospitals, small business and, yes, even larger companies threatened by the forcible shutdown of the U.S. economy. When America most needs bipartisan cooperation, Democrats add to the economic uncertainty by putting their partisan interests above the needs of the country.

***
Democrats are lucky the Federal Reserve chose Monday to deploy its biggest financial guns so far, or the markets might have taken an even bigger fall amid Washington’s dysfunction. Equities still fell by 3% or so, but investors took some comfort in the Fed’s offer to buy as many mortgage securities and Treasurys as needed to calm the panic. The mortgage-securities market has been strained as sellers who need cash struggle to find willing buyers.

The Fed also signaled it is willing to buy securities of companies and municipalities. The Fed has been late in doing all this, but credit to Chairman Jerome Powell for moving fast and hard now. The problem is that the Fed needs fresh capital to backstop these facilities, and that has to come from Congress.

In particular, the Treasury must replenish its Exchange Stabilization Fund (ESF), which provides the capital backstop. That’s where the Senate bill comes in with its $425 billion for the ESF that the Fed could leverage up to many times that amount. The goal is to prevent this government-ordered business liquidity crisis from becoming a solvency crisis that becomes a banking crisis and depression.

Do Democrats even care? It isn’t obvious as they pander to their progressive base to make last-minute demands while blocking the rescue cash. The political chronology is instructive—and depressing about the state of Democratic leadership.

Majority Leader Mitch McConnell last week asked his GOP committee chairs to work with their Democratic counterparts on planks of the complicated legislation. Republicans sought about $850 billion in liquidity for businesses to prevent credit defaults and mass layoffs, and roughly the same amount on Democratic priorities—including enhanced unemployment benefits, direct payments to households, and a surge in medical spending. By Saturday night, Mr. Schumer was expressing “delight and surprise” at the “bipartisan cooperation.”


Enter the Democratic left, which trashed the bill as a handout to the wealthy. “Mitch McConnell & the GOP are pushing a crony capitalist slush fund for friends and donors,” tweeted Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, who everyone thinks will challenge Mr. Schumer in a 2022 primary. Mrs. Pelosi returned from recess to say the House will write its own bill, and Mr. Schumer then blocked the Senate from even debating the bill that his fellow Democrats co-wrote. Stand up guy, that Chuck.

The “crony capitalist slush fund” line is false and dangerous. Government created this financial panic. Government told Americans to stay home and essentially ordered U.S. commerce to stop. Without revenue, companies can’t pay the bills. Without access to government loans, companies of every size will be forced to lay off employees by the millions.

Who do progressives think that hurts? The “working families” Democrats claim to care about will get the pink slips. Let’s see how inequality spikes if a prolonged recession cuts national output by 10% or more this quarter, or worse if this continues for a few more weeks.

Mr. Schumer suddenly claims there isn’t enough “transparency” in the bill’s replenishment for the Exchange Stabilization Fund, but the rules are essentially the same as they’ve been during previous Democratic and Republican administrations. Put too many burdens on the loans and companies will refuse to take the money to stay in business until it may be too late; or they may prefer to shrink and order mass layoffs to ride out the crisis.

***
Democratic cynicism was further exposed when Mrs. Pelosi released her 1,100-page bill Monday. House Majority Whip James Clyburn was heard last week advising Democrats to view the crisis as a “tremendous opportunity to restructure things to fit our vision.”

The Pelosi bill follows through by including an ideological wish list that has nothing to do with the coronavirus. There’s a Green New Deal mandate on airlines to offset their “carbon emissions” and publish CO2 emissions for each flight. There’s the House’s failed “election reform”—requiring states to allow early voting, mail-in voting, and same-day voter registration.

The Pelosi bill would require any loan recipient to provide permanent paid leave and a $15 minimum wage. Borrowers would not be allowed to pay a bonus to an executive or dividends to shareholders. Companies would have to provide statistics on the “gender, race, and ethnic identity” of their board members. Nothing like a deadly virus to get the country woke.

Democrats are trying to jam Mr. McConnell and President Trump to accept in a crisis what the left couldn’t pass in normal times. By our deadline Tuesday, Mr. Schumer had still refused to compromise. If Democrats refuse, they deserve to be held responsible for the damage to markets and the economy from putting partisanship above the national interest.
  #21753  
Old 24.03.2020, 22:39
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Can you give an actual reference in the proposed Bill to the stuff you do not like?
You can read the text of the Bill here
https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-...bill/6201/text
With all due respect Marton, You should go onto to that lengthy bill you just listed and show me or prove me wrong that Pelosi did not include add ons to suit progressive Democrats' agenda? Green gas emissions for airlines; racial, ethnic and gender disclosure for corporate boards (???) and add in voter registrations.

Now enlighten me as to how any of these has ANYTHING to do with the coronavirus and economic plight that the middle class and poor notwithstanding small businesses find themselves?

I care about small businesses and those soon to be unemployed and our economy; but I could care less about politics!
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  #21754  
Old 24.03.2020, 22:41
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

My goodness, do you really expect me to read all that?

In US terms Krugman is a socialist, left wing loonie. But for the rest of the world he is just a little bit left of Gengus Khan.

Much brighter than the US president, and actually understands the system.
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Old 24.03.2020, 22:44
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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My goodness, do you really expect me to read all that?

In US terms Krugman is a socialist, left wing loonie. But for the rest of the world he is just a little bit left of Gengus Khan.

Much brighter than the US president, and actually understands the system.
Not exactly a loony....or not imho.

I think it just shows that we‘re all biased one way or another.
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Old 24.03.2020, 22:51
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

@ Terrifisch

Thanks for the WSJ article but it is hardly independent?
I quote
"Do Democrats even care?"
"Democratic cynicism was further exposed"
  #21757  
Old 24.03.2020, 22:52
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My goodness, do you really expect me to read all that?

In US terms Krugman is a socialist, left wing loonie. But for the rest of the world he is just a little bit left of Gengus Khan.

Much brighter than the US president, and actually understands the system.

Or he is part of the system/swamp? My article wasn't much longer than the one you referenced. I assumed you were open minded and curious? I agree with you that Krugman is much more intelligent than POTUS ... but that bar is not set too high is it? Personally, I agree with some of Krugman's ideas but he is too left wing and idealistic in my view.
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Old 24.03.2020, 22:55
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@ Terrifisch

Thanks for the WSJ article but it is hardly independent?
I quote
"Do Democrats even care?"
"Democratic cynicism was further exposed"
Thanks Marton! My point was a corollary to Bowlie's Krugman Op Ed in the NYT. Trust me, Krugman is not objective either
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Old 24.03.2020, 22:56
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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With all due respect Marton, You should go onto to that lengthy bill you just listed and show me or prove me wrong that Pelosi did not include add ons to suit progressive Democrats' agenda? Green gas emissions for airlines; racial, ethnic and gender disclosure for corporate boards (???) and add in voter registrations.

Now enlighten me as to how any of these has ANYTHING to do with the coronavirus and economic plight that the middle class and poor notwithstanding small businesses find themselves?

I care about small businesses and those soon to be unemployed and our economy; but I could care less about politics!
I gave you the opportunity to provide some facts to support your complaints about alleged Democrat additions to the Senate Bill; no problem if you do not want to.

I did a search through the Bill and did not find the add-ons you mention.
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Old 24.03.2020, 22:57
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Thanks Marton! My point was a corollary to Bowlie's Krugman Op Ed in the NYT. Trust me, Krugman is not objective either
Who IS objective? Everyone has a bias, a frame, a side.
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