Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Off-Topic > Off-Topic > International affairs/politics  
View Poll Results: Will Trump be a good President?
Yes 88 27.16%
No 236 72.84%
Voters: 324. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #22361  
Old 24.04.2020, 09:03
baboon's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Rheintal
Posts: 3,692
Groaned at 136 Times in 120 Posts
Thanked 6,240 Times in 2,929 Posts
baboon has a reputation beyond reputebaboon has a reputation beyond reputebaboon has a reputation beyond reputebaboon has a reputation beyond reputebaboon has a reputation beyond reputebaboon has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

Quote:
View Post
We seem to have very similar positions regarding this thread. But since we're talking about arguments, I still believe my reply was rather accurate. It was in response to your post that said "People who claim evidence exists on the web [...] are performing a type of intellectual fraud or propaganda." The argument was qualifying people's intentions, and not the content of their statements. Thus the ad hominem comment.

I do agree with you in regards to the fallacious arguments claiming evidence exists, when there isn't. This has exploded in recent times, when world leaders try to re-invent reality.
Dictionary definition is that it's a person (guess this could be a single individual or a specifically identified small group), not plural and non-specific "people". Marton is right in this case.

Quote:
ad hominem
/ad ˈhɒmɪnɛm/
adjective
(of an argument or reaction) directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank baboon for this useful post:
  #22362  
Old 24.04.2020, 09:14
Caleb's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Rheintal
Posts: 829
Groaned at 10 Times in 8 Posts
Thanked 1,195 Times in 504 Posts
Caleb has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

Quote:
View Post
Dictionary definition is that it's a person (guess this could be a single individual or a specifically identified small group), not plural and non-specific "people". Marton is right in this case.
That's a rather naive interpretation, Mr. Ape. Marton was using a synechdoche by referring to Full Circle (an individual) as "people who" (a group), to be more politically correct. Or at least that's how I read it.
Reply With Quote
  #22363  
Old 24.04.2020, 09:19
baboon's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Rheintal
Posts: 3,692
Groaned at 136 Times in 120 Posts
Thanked 6,240 Times in 2,929 Posts
baboon has a reputation beyond reputebaboon has a reputation beyond reputebaboon has a reputation beyond reputebaboon has a reputation beyond reputebaboon has a reputation beyond reputebaboon has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

Quote:
View Post
That's a rather naive interpretation, Mr. Ape. Marton was using a synechdoche by referring to Full Circle (an individual) as "people who" (a group), to be more politically correct. Or at least that's how I read it.
In all seriousness I didn't. Certainly FC would be in that group but as written to me it clearly was meant as a much broader statement and I didn't read it as being specific to FC. As your mother tongue is Spanish I'm claiming home language rights so

Anyhow, let's get back OT.

afterthought...looking at your sig, you realise you can get waterproof e-readers?
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank baboon for this useful post:
  #22364  
Old 24.04.2020, 09:21
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CH
Posts: 9,028
Groaned at 308 Times in 251 Posts
Thanked 12,740 Times in 6,662 Posts
greenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

Quote:
View Post
In all seriousness I didn't. Certainly FC would be in that group but as written to me it clearly was meant as a much broader statement and I didn't read it as being specific to FC. As your mother tongue is Spanish I'm claiming home language rights so

Anyhow, let's get back OT.
You're right but someone must win the internet. Let's call it a day.

Back to Trampolino?
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank greenmount for this useful post:
  #22365  
Old 24.04.2020, 09:30
Caleb's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Rheintal
Posts: 829
Groaned at 10 Times in 8 Posts
Thanked 1,195 Times in 504 Posts
Caleb has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

Quote:
View Post
afterthought...looking at your sig, you realise you can get waterproof e-readers?
Jee, I should update that. It's from an age where e-readers didn't even exist.
Reply With Quote
  #22366  
Old 24.04.2020, 09:39
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 9,140
Groaned at 383 Times in 332 Posts
Thanked 15,738 Times in 8,562 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

Quote:
View Post
We seem to have very similar positions regarding this thread. But since we're talking about arguments, I still believe my reply was rather accurate. It was in response to your post that said "People who claim evidence exists on the web [...] are performing a type of intellectual fraud or propaganda." The argument was qualifying people's intentions, and not the content of their statements. Thus the ad hominem comment.

I do agree with you in regards to the fallacious arguments claiming evidence exists, when there isn't. This has exploded in recent times, when world leaders try to re-invent reality.
To look at it another way! It is no more ad-hominem than writing "people who exceed the speed limit are breaking the law".

We do not know if it was their intention to break the law or not.
Reply With Quote
  #22367  
Old 24.04.2020, 10:14
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

There is a saying that Trump obviously has never heard and incapable of heeding even if he had "Engage brain before opening mouth"
Trump: Could disinfectant be injected into people to kill coronavirus and clean the lungs
Doctor: People will die


In all honesty 10 years old have better reasoning ability
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #22368  
Old 24.04.2020, 10:26
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Near Luzern
Posts: 1,623
Groaned at 116 Times in 69 Posts
Thanked 2,072 Times in 914 Posts
Patxi has a reputation beyond reputePatxi has a reputation beyond reputePatxi has a reputation beyond reputePatxi has a reputation beyond reputePatxi has a reputation beyond reputePatxi has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

Quote:
So supposing we hit the body with a tremendous uhm, whether its ultraviolet or, just very powerful light, and i think you said that hasn't been checked but you're gonna test it, and then i said supposing you brought the light inside the body, which you can do, either through the skin, or uhh, in some other way, and i think you said you were going to test that too sounds interesting, right, and then i see the disinfectant knocks it out, in a minute, one minute, and is there a way we can do something like that by, injection inside or, or, almost a cleaning, cause you see it gets in the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs, so it would be interesting to check that so that you're going to have to use medical doctors with but it sounds, it sounds interesting to me.
This guy is gonna get a Nobel Prize, mark my words.

Never would have suspected that he was a DM fan either:



#flashlightsinrectumsforthecure #uvorangemanwins #garglelysol
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Patxi for this useful post:
  #22369  
Old 24.04.2020, 10:53
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Nyon
Posts: 2,587
Groaned at 107 Times in 75 Posts
Thanked 2,930 Times in 1,462 Posts
bowlie has a reputation beyond reputebowlie has a reputation beyond reputebowlie has a reputation beyond reputebowlie has a reputation beyond reputebowlie has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

Injecting cleaning products. Bring it on, offer free syringes, demonstrate on live TV.

Solves so many problems.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank bowlie for this useful post:
  #22370  
Old 24.04.2020, 11:34
Full Circle's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Bern
Posts: 220
Groaned at 134 Times in 71 Posts
Thanked 582 Times in 276 Posts
Full Circle has a reputation beyond reputeFull Circle has a reputation beyond reputeFull Circle has a reputation beyond reputeFull Circle has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

Quote:
View Post
On the other hand, there are several readily available peer-reviewed articles refuting media bias, such as this one from earlier this month from Science Advances, or this one from Significance, a joint publication of the American Statistical Association and the Royal Statistical Society.
The study from Science Advances doesn't exactly refute media bias, it states that journalists wouldn't show bias in choosing which stories to cover. This may be true, I would think how they choose to cover such stories would be more important when looking at bias.

I thought this line from the study was a bit strange:
"In short, journalists are overwhelmingly liberal/Democrats, and many journalists appear to be far to the left of the average American. However, being liberal and expressing liberal gatekeeping bias in the choice of news to cover are clearly two different things. After all, journalists state that they strongly value objectivity in reporting the news"

So it acknowledges that that journalists are overwhelmingly liberal/Democrat but believes that it doesn't affect their journalism because they themselves say that they are very objective
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Full Circle for this useful post:
  #22371  
Old 24.04.2020, 11:40
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Kt Zurich
Posts: 239
Groaned at 3 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 696 Times in 259 Posts
ennui has a reputation beyond reputeennui has a reputation beyond reputeennui has a reputation beyond reputeennui has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

I don't think it's possible to be unbiased in writing unless you do nothing but quote statistics - even then, framing things as positive or negative/win loss contributes to perception. But often what's worse is the artificial insertion of "balance" which adds to an already huge pile of "whataboutism" and spurious findings.

I have no expectation for non bias. That's why you have to consult a number of news sources. People waste so much time whining about bias. In the meantime, you could just read a few different sources and get a more complete view.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank ennui for this useful post:
  #22372  
Old 24.04.2020, 11:41
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Kt Zurich
Posts: 239
Groaned at 3 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 696 Times in 259 Posts
ennui has a reputation beyond reputeennui has a reputation beyond reputeennui has a reputation beyond reputeennui has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

Quote:
View Post
Injecting cleaning products. Bring it on, offer free syringes, demonstrate on live TV.

Solves so many problems.
Perhaps trump would give a demonstration.

In other news, isn't the guy tapped to lead a vaccine response a labradoodle trainer? Not that dog trainers aren't competent...
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank ennui for this useful post:
  #22373  
Old 24.04.2020, 12:00
Full Circle's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Bern
Posts: 220
Groaned at 134 Times in 71 Posts
Thanked 582 Times in 276 Posts
Full Circle has a reputation beyond reputeFull Circle has a reputation beyond reputeFull Circle has a reputation beyond reputeFull Circle has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

Quote:
View Post
I don't think it's possible to be unbiased in writing unless you do nothing but quote statistics - even then, framing things as positive or negative/win loss contributes to perception. But often what's worse is the artificial insertion of "balance" which adds to an already huge pile of "whataboutism" and spurious findings.

I have no expectation for non bias. That's why you have to consult a number of news sources. People waste so much time whining about bias. In the meantime, you could just read a few different sources and get a more complete view.
I agree, everyone has some sort of bias.

And given that journalists are overwhelmingly liberal (and donate far more money to the Democrats) it would only be natural that the media would have a liberal bias.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Full Circle for this useful post:
This user groans at Full Circle for this post:
  #22374  
Old 24.04.2020, 12:36
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Küsnacht, Switzerland
Posts: 3,630
Groaned at 92 Times in 86 Posts
Thanked 9,954 Times in 4,476 Posts
Blueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

Quote:
View Post
And given that journalists are overwhelmingly liberal (and donate far more money to the Democrats) it would only be natural that the media would have a liberal bias.
Rupert Murdoch?
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank Blueangel for this useful post:
  #22375  
Old 24.04.2020, 12:50
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Kt Zurich
Posts: 239
Groaned at 3 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 696 Times in 259 Posts
ennui has a reputation beyond reputeennui has a reputation beyond reputeennui has a reputation beyond reputeennui has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

Quote:
View Post
I agree, everyone has some sort of bias.

And given that journalists are overwhelmingly liberal (and donate far more money to the Democrats) it would only be natural that the media would have a liberal bias.
You're taking what I said and distilling it into one point. It's not that simple. What is "the media"? Which outlets are you speaking of - is it print/television/Internet.

Radio is a good example. I've not counted up, but conservative talk radio appears to be more prevalent than liberal. Do you consider Christian media as part of this as well.


The thing is that some journalists are more biased than others, and are more based on different issues. Liberal/conservative and left/right are fraught with messy inconsistency. Not only is there a directional bias, there's an intensity. And maybe more journalists lean left, but you watch something like Fox and the intensity of bias is stronger. And of course, what we perceive as bias depends on our own individual biases.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank ennui for this useful post:
  #22376  
Old 24.04.2020, 12:56
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 9,140
Groaned at 383 Times in 332 Posts
Thanked 15,738 Times in 8,562 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

Quote:
View Post
I agree, everyone has some sort of bias.

And given that journalists are overwhelmingly liberal (and donate far more money to the Democrats) it would only be natural that the media would have a liberal bias.
It might be natural but it is actually not a fact. In fact, it is an example of a smear against journalists.
So where are these "many studies" that you have referenced which are supposedly supporting this claim of bias?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank marton for this useful post:
  #22377  
Old 24.04.2020, 12:58
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

Quote:
View Post
Perhaps trump would give a demonstration.

In other news, isn't the guy tapped to lead a vaccine response a labradoodle trainer? Not that dog trainers aren't competent...
Exactly, thos amazing methods should indeed be tested on him and his family first. There was a big reaction in France a few weeks ago, when a politician suggested new drugs or vaccines should be tested on prostitues and people in African colonies first.

Lobotomized? One explanation among many.

Excellent post on bias ennui.
Reply With Quote
  #22378  
Old 24.04.2020, 13:11
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 9,140
Groaned at 383 Times in 332 Posts
Thanked 15,738 Times in 8,562 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

Quote:
“Why did the Chinese government's bank want to do business with Hunter Biden while his dad was Vice President,” Trump’s campaign asked on Twitter earlier this month.
In what is turning out to be a small world Trump himself is tens of millions of dollars in debt to the same Chinese bank.
In 2012, his real estate partner refinanced one of Trump’s most prized New York buildings for almost $1 billion. The debt includes $211 million from the state-owned Bank of China — its first loan of this kind in the U.S. — which matures in the middle of what could be Trump’s second term.

Source

Makes a mockery of Donald Trump warning “China will own the United States” if Joe Biden is elected president."
__________________
It is naive to assume my posts are my own work
Reply With Quote
  #22379  
Old 24.04.2020, 13:11
Full Circle's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Bern
Posts: 220
Groaned at 134 Times in 71 Posts
Thanked 582 Times in 276 Posts
Full Circle has a reputation beyond reputeFull Circle has a reputation beyond reputeFull Circle has a reputation beyond reputeFull Circle has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

Quote:
View Post
You're taking what I said and distilling it into one point. It's not that simple. What is "the media"? Which outlets are you speaking of - is it print/television/Internet.

Radio is a good example. I've not counted up, but conservative talk radio appears to be more prevalent than liberal. Do you consider Christian media as part of this as well.


The thing is that some journalists are more biased than others, and are more based on different issues. Liberal/conservative and left/right are fraught with messy inconsistency. Not only is there a directional bias, there's an intensity. And maybe more journalists lean left, but you watch something like Fox and the intensity of bias is stronger. And of course, what we perceive as bias depends on our own individual biases.
All media.
Some journalists may be more biased than others, but given that the majority of journalists "were clearly to the left of the public" one would expect the bias to skew left.

https://www.journalism.org/2006/10/0...an-journalist/
Reply With Quote
  #22380  
Old 24.04.2020, 13:15
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

It is actually interesting currently in the UK, re Boris Johnson, Raab, and the handling of Covis 19, that journalist who had a clear and self-confessed pro Johnson, pro Conservatives, pro Brexit stance aka bias- are not turning against them with a vengeance. Like Piers Morgan, Nick Ferrari, and even Laura Kuensberg, Andrew Marr and a few more.

In the meantime in the USA, I am absolutely sure this Doctor is very very biased, by the look on her face

https://www.facebook.com/OccupyDemoc...9439887625261/
Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Will Hillary Clinton run for president again? PanFastic International affairs/politics 159 09.10.2018 02:31
Poll: Will Trump win the 2020 elections? k_and_e International affairs/politics 14 05.06.2018 22:06
A generic "will my salary be good enough" post Larsh Employment 51 12.12.2017 12:51
Will Trump be the next US President? Phil_MCR International affairs/politics 2618 14.11.2016 11:16
Shall I inform my employer that I will be self employed or be a owner of a company? Broth76 Business & entrepreneur 6 09.07.2012 16:59


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 11:54.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0