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View Poll Results: Will Trump be a good President?
Yes 88 27.08%
No 237 72.92%
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  #22561  
Old 26.04.2020, 05:11
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Based on precedent, I'd say Crenshaw was a citizen at birth (via his parents) so he's a natural born citizen. Same as John McCain (born in Panama) and Ted Cruz (born in Canada). The Senate actually passed a resolution in 2008 declaring McCain a natural born citizen.

The other question/issue with Cruz was that he held dual nationality, and should the U.S. really elect someone to the highest office in the land that's a dual citizen. Cruz subsequently gave up his Canadian citizenship.

From Quora, regarding U.S. presidents not born on U.S. soil:
Sorry for the late reply. I've been busy of late.

McCain and Cruz aren't directly comparable. McCain was born in a US Naval hospital in the Panama Canal Zone, not in a civilian hospital in Panama. The US Senate did pass a non-binding resolution on his eligibility for the presidency, which was still open to challenge, but the whole question became moot when McCain lost the election. Many scholars continue to believe that McCain was ineligible to become President (and there are many who think the opposite, too).

Cruz was born in a civilian hospital in Calgary; his mother was a US citizen and his father Cuban. His claim to be a "natural born citizen" of the United States is much shakier than McCain's.

Those early presidents not born on US soil were eligible not as natural born citizens of the US but, in compliance with Section 1 of Article 2 of the US Constitution, as "Citizen(s) of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution" (which was adopted when it was ratified by the ninth of the 13 states in 1788). Cruz and Crenshaw might have some problems arguing that they were US citizens in 1788. The full wording is:

"No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty-five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States."

The second comma in the first sentence opens up all sorts of litigious possibilities. The authors of the Constitution have a lot to answer for, with their liberal and often arbitrary use of commas.

Hamilton's original draft of this section was much clearer, with no "natural born" nonsense and no superfluous punctuation:

"No person shall be eligible to the office of President of the United States unless he be now a Citizen of one of the States, or hereafter be born a Citizen of the United States."

In short, it's certainly not clear that Crenshaw would be considered a "natural born citizen" of the United States. There's enough doubt to fund an army of lawyers for years on end.
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  #22562  
Old 26.04.2020, 06:53
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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@TonyClifton
Some boring facts.

Boston Globe: "The United States has just over 4 percent of the world’s population, but had about one-third of all global coronavirus cases and one-quarter of the fatalities, as of Friday."
"This is a catastrophic failure that can be laid largely at the feet of President Trump."
So it’s now a “fact” that President Trump is personally to blame for the high Coronavirus death rate in the United States

It’s exactly statements like this that MSM are losing the plot and failing to do their jobs properly. And from a once great publication like The Boston Globe too
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  #22563  
Old 26.04.2020, 08:53
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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So it’s now a “fact” that President Trump is personally to blame for the high Coronavirus death rate in the United States

It’s exactly statements like this that MSM are losing the plot and failing to do their jobs properly. And from a once great publication like The Boston Globe too
Isn't the quote "laid largely at the feet", suggesting a portion of the blame. Truth be told, no one reads for raw numbers.
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Old 26.04.2020, 09:29
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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So it’s now a “fact” that President Trump is personally to blame for the high Coronavirus death rate in the United States

It’s exactly statements like this that MSM are losing the plot and failing to do their jobs properly. And from a once great publication like The Boston Globe too
You are claiming Trump is not really the US President and so fully responsible but is just play-acting and the real responsibility lies with the Dems or with Obama or...
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Old 26.04.2020, 09:38
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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You are claiming Trump is not really the US President and so fully responsible but is just play-acting and the real responsibility lies with the Dems or with Obama or...
Or WHO.
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  #22566  
Old 26.04.2020, 09:58
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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In a perceived national crisis this happens always. Look at Johnson's ratings in the UK a few weeks ago. On Gallup Trump's approval hit the heights of 49% mid March but since then is back close to his constant score of within about 3 points of 40%. It's been in the ÷/- 3 point range there the whole time. Only Bush 1 comes close to being that bad

https://news.gallup.com/poll/203198/...ald-trump.aspx
True, at times of national crisis usually President's popularity hits extreme highs and stays there for months. Trump's never got that high and collapsed in weeks.

For example; Bush began his presidency with ratings near 60%. In the time of national crisis following the September 11 attacks, polls showed approval ratings greater than 85%, peaking in at 92%, and a steady 80–90% approval for about four months after the attacks.
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  #22567  
Old 26.04.2020, 10:10
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

So trump peaked at 49%.
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  #22568  
Old 26.04.2020, 10:16
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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True, at times of national crisis usually President's popularity hits extreme highs and stays there for months. Trump's never got that high and collapsed in weeks.

For example; Bush began his presidency with ratings near 60%. In the time of national crisis following the September 11 attacks, polls showed approval ratings greater than 85%, peaking in at 92%, and a steady 80–90% approval for about four months after the attacks.
I think it's clear that he'll win again, no matter how close these polls look like now. So buckle up for another round of Trump(ness).

It will be "fun".
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  #22569  
Old 26.04.2020, 10:19
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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I think it's clear that he'll win again, no matter how close these polls look like now. So buckle up for another round of Trump(ness).

It will be "fun".
Were's Pink when you really need her?
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  #22570  
Old 26.04.2020, 10:46
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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In short, it's certainly not clear that Crenshaw would be considered a "natural born citizen" of the United States. There's enough doubt to fund an army of lawyers for years on end.
So the greatest hope of the R's (at least the English Forum "Rs" who, for all we know, might be a special subset of Rs but still) will never run for president?
That's depressing, as the next one after Trump might be another eccentric septuagenarian.

And as it seems that Dems can't find their voice, or a voice that most people can relate to or at least someone people could like, that's really bad news. We might live to see Ivanka president and Baron after Ivanka, and so on.
You may think this is a dystopian scenario now, let's talk about that later....much later.
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Old 26.04.2020, 10:46
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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So it’s now a “fact” that President Trump is personally to blame for the high Coronavirus death rate in the United States

It’s exactly statements like this that MSM are losing the plot and failing to do their jobs properly. And from a once great publication like The Boston Globe too
You know that if Obama was still in office right now, Trump and all other Republicans would be blaming him for the current situation in the US.

While the rest of the world, including the WHO, was acknowledging the rise of a pandemic, Trump was in fact telling Americans that the coronavirus was "no big deal" and would just "go away like a miracle." And on February 26th, Trump said that the number of US coronavirus cases “within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero,” from 15.

He needs to admit that he was downplaying the situation and encouraging Americans to not take the virus seriously and take some responsibility for a change rather than constantly trying to find someone else to blame for his own mistakes and ineptitude. Again, if it was Obama in office right now, Trump, Fox News and all other Republicans would be blaming Obama for the current situation. And you know it.

Last edited by Pancakes; 26.04.2020 at 11:25.
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Old 26.04.2020, 11:27
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Or WHO.
Didn't Trump ignore and then blame the WHO?








I now have the opening riff to Baba O'Riley as an ear worm.
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Old 26.04.2020, 12:02
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Isn't the quote "laid largely at the feet", suggesting a portion of the blame. Truth be told, no one reads for raw numbers.
Not a portion, the largest portion. Look, nearly every western country was ill prepared for coronavirus, some have dealt with it better than others but mostly it’s been a very poor showing across the board when compared to our friends in Asia. President Trump’s US has had a particularly bad and disjointed response, and shares a portion of the blame, but certainly not the largest part.

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You know that if Obama was still in office right now, Trump and all other Republicans would be blaming him for the current situation in the US.

While the rest of the world, including the WHO, was acknowledging the rise of a pandemic, Trump was in fact telling Americans that the coronavirus was "no big deal" and would just "go away like a miracle." And on February 26th, Trump said that the number of US coronavirus cases “within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero,” from 15.

He needs to admit that he was downplaying the situation and encouraging Americans to not take the virus seriously and take some responsibility for a change rather than constantly trying to find someone else to blame for his own mistakes and ineptitude. Again, if it was Obama in office right now, Trump, Fox News and all other Republicans would be blaming Obama for the current situation. And you know it.
Yes they would have, so why does the rest of the media lower themselves to that level? MSM in the UK and US have gotten this so spectacularly wrong. Times of national crisis mean that countries should come together (I think baboon alluded to this). Yes the media are there to hold governments to account, but they’re not there to score political points, which is why the public have reacted accordingly to their coverage of the corinavirus.
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Old 26.04.2020, 12:05
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Didn't Trump ignore and then blame the WHO?
Yes, that's exactly what Trump did.
In January, the WHO sent a team of scientists to Wuhan, China to investigate the nature of the virus. They also prepared detailed documents regarding the virus and distributed them, internationally, to medical organizations, etc. (to essentially warn them of a possible pandemic). On January 30th, the WHO issued a formal statement, declaring the novel coronavirus a ‘public health emergency of international concern.’ They weren't able to declare it as being an international pandemic yet because it hadn't yet actually become widespread throughout much of the world.
So despite the WHO issuing warnings to various countries and certainly not down-playing the severity of the situation in January, throughout the entire month of February, Trump was telling Americans that the virus was "no big deal" and would just go away "like a miracle." And I saw many Republicans claiming the same and even making fun of other Americans who were worried about the virus.
So yes, Trump ignored the WHO and tried to convince Americans that the virus was nothing to worry about. And then later once 'the shit hit the fan' in the US, he decides to try to blame the WHO for it.
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Old 26.04.2020, 12:07
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

We may live to see Michelle Obama become President.
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Old 26.04.2020, 12:22
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Yes they would have, so why does the rest of the media lower themselves to that level? MSM in the UK and US have gotten this so spectacularly wrong. Times of national crisis mean that countries should come together (I think baboon alluded to this). Yes the media are there to hold governments to account, but they’re not there to score political points, which is why the public have reacted accordingly to their coverage of the corinavirus.
Because Trump is indeed responsible for his own reaction to the situation with the virus and how that reaction shapes public perception... particularly when he chose to ignore the fact that the WHO had already issued many formal statements warning countries about the virus and declaring that it was of "international concern," etc. So despite that warning, Trump continued to try to convince Americans that the virus was no big deal and nothing to worry about. I sometimes go into the comments sections on Fox News, just to see what the 'other side' is saying about things, and I saw soo many Trump-supporters commenting there in January and February that the virus was no big deal and part of some kind of "Democratic conspiracy" against Trump and many were also making fun of the people who did think that the virus was something to worry about.

I guess you think that Trump shouldn't be held accountable for his own actions and decisions because it contradicts his supporters' delusions that Trump is infallible and shouldn't be held accountable for his mistakes? Also, you are basically implying that it's perfectly fine if Republicans and the right-wing media were to hold Obama accountable for something like that, but when it's done to Trump, he should somehow be considered immune to being held accountable for his own actions? It is truly mind-blowing that you aren't able to recognize your hypocrisy.
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Old 26.04.2020, 13:15
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Also, you are basically implying that it's perfectly fine if Republicans and the right-wing media were to hold Obama accountable for something like that, but when it's done to Trump, he should somehow be considered immune to being held accountable for his own actions? It is truly mind-blowing that you aren't able to recognize your hypocrisy.
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We may live to see Michelle Obama become President.
She's very intelligent. I have the feeling that she'll refuse to run for president and rightly so. Too many reasons I can think of to agree with such a decision tbh.
But who knows, sometimes I wish to be wrong. Plainly wrong.

I think both Dems and Reps need new people.
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Old 26.04.2020, 13:59
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Because Trump is indeed responsible for his own reaction to the situation with the virus and how that reaction shapes public perception... particularly when he chose to ignore the fact that the WHO had already issued many formal statements warning countries about the virus and declaring that it was of "international concern," etc. So despite that warning, Trump continued to try to convince Americans that the virus was no big deal and nothing to worry about. I sometimes go into the comments sections on Fox News, just to see what the 'other side' is saying about things, and I saw soo many Trump-supporters commenting there in January and February that the virus was no big deal and part of some kind of "Democratic conspiracy" against Trump and many were also making fun of the people who did think that the virus was something to worry about.

I guess you think that Trump shouldn't be held accountable for his own actions and decisions because it contradicts his supporters' delusions that Trump is infallible and shouldn't be held accountable for his mistakes? Also, you are basically implying that it's perfectly fine if Republicans and the right-wing media were to hold Obama accountable for something like that, but when it's done to Trump, he should somehow be considered immune to being held accountable for his own actions? It is truly mind-blowing that you aren't able to recognize your hypocrisy.
Excuse me? My hypocrisy? I don’t believe you are reading what I’ve written. President Trump should absolutely be held to account for his actions which is why there is an election in November. This is the job for the opposition and the media. Unfortunately the media are not doing their job properly and the Democrats believe the best man to hold President Trump to account is Joe Biden. They are both failing.

And the WHO are far more to blame for today’s situation than President Trump, it is their specific job to prevent/limit pandemics! Instead they believed every single lie that China told them for months as the virus spread and then didn’t declare a pandemic until mid-March. Now they should be held to account as they have failed more than any government!
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Old 26.04.2020, 14:24
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

Brad Pitt plays Dr. Anthony Fauci on 'Saturday Night Live,' takes aim at Trump

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uW56CL0pk0g
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Old 26.04.2020, 14:37
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Excuse me? My hypocrisy? I don’t believe you are reading what I’ve written. President Trump should absolutely be held to account for his actions which is why there is an election in November. This is the job for the opposition and the media. Unfortunately the media are not doing their job properly and the Democrats believe the best man to hold President Trump to account is Joe Biden. They are both failing.

And the WHO are far more to blame for today’s situation than President Trump, it is their specific job to prevent/limit pandemics! Instead they believed every single lie that China told them for months as the virus spread and then didn’t declare a pandemic until mid-March. Now they should be held to account as they have failed more than any government!
If WHO was to blame then how come the US is the only government in the world blaming WHO for their own internal problems.

Just demonstrates how Trump always blames others for his own failures.
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