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View Poll Results: Will Trump be a good President?
Yes 93 27.03%
No 251 72.97%
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  #23521  
Old 23.07.2020, 02:48
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Another ad hominem. But of course you're not the one slinging insults or attacking. Noooo, not you. You act as if you don't even realise that you keep playing the victim card while continuously dishing it out.

I strongly suggest you let it be now, otherwise expect this to turn into a real fight.
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You seriously need a Valium... or something.

How is my comment with the link to the psych article about cognitive dissonance and why most people are unwilling to change their minds a fallacy ad hominem? That article -- the reason I posted it -- had nothing to do with anyone here specifically. I posted it in relation to what I had been talking about, with the forum being a place where people assert their opinions, etc. It had absolutely nothing to do with you.

Seriously, please take your bull*** elsewhere. Because it's exhausting to deal with you and to even attempt to have a mature, rational conversation with you.

So yes, I am going to do my best to ignore you from this point forward, but not because I am afraid of a "real fight" with you, as you have just threatened, but because it's becoming increasingly obvious that I'm not dealing with someone who is a rational human being.

Take care.
Seriously, stop. You are now both acting like juveniles on the school playground. Urs Max, that threat is unacceptable. Pancakes, stop stirring the pot. Every time you reply to each other, you raise the temperature and take the pressure cooker up a notch.

I already asked you both, nicely. Don't continue this line of posting here. If you can't step away, I'll be happy to help you.
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  #23522  
Old 23.07.2020, 03:43
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Seriously, stop. You are now both acting like juveniles on the school playground. Urs Max, that threat is unacceptable. Pancakes, stop stirring the pot. Every time you reply to each other, you raise the temperature and take the pressure cooker up a notch.

I already asked you both, nicely. Don't continue this line of posting here. If you can't step away, I'll be happy to help you.
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  #23523  
Old 23.07.2020, 11:01
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Seriously, stop. You are now both acting like juveniles on the school playground. Urs Max, that threat is unacceptable. Pancakes, stop stirring the pot. Every time you reply to each other, you raise the temperature and take the pressure cooker up a notch.

I already asked you both, nicely. Don't continue this line of posting here. If you can't step away, I'll be happy to help you.
Understandable. As I was lying in bed last night, I realized that that's exactly what I was doing -- "stirring the pot" -- even though that wasn't my intention. And I'm sorry about that. I think part of the problem is that I haven't been able to figure out how to use the block function on here.

Anyways... I just want to apologize to anyone here that has been subjected to these arguments. I know how tiresome they become. And again, I apologize.
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  #23524  
Old 23.07.2020, 12:17
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Apparently not, it is the Electoral Collage that will decide.
Umm, the votes determine the Electoral college votes.

Tom
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  #23525  
Old 23.07.2020, 12:25
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Umm, the votes determine the Electoral college votes.

Tom
Kinda. If they really did, with ρ = +1, Hillary would be prez today.
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  #23526  
Old 23.07.2020, 12:45
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Umm, the votes determine the Electoral college votes.

Tom
Only two states, Nebraska and Maine, allot electoral college votes proportionately. All other states have a winner-takes-all system.
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  #23527  
Old 23.07.2020, 12:48
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Understandable. As I was lying in bed last night, I realized that that's exactly what I was doing -- "stirring the pot" -- even though that wasn't my intention. And I'm sorry about that. I think part of the problem is that I haven't been able to figure out how to use the block function on here.

Anyways... I just want to apologize to anyone here that has been subjected to these arguments. I know how tiresome they become. And again, I apologize.
Click on the user name
Click on "user lists"
Click on "add to ignore..."
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  #23528  
Old 23.07.2020, 14:11
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Click on the user name
Click on "user lists"
Click on "add to ignore..."
Thanks. I had created a post earlier, asking how to do it, and from there I finally found the "edit ignore list" in my control panel. For some reason, I was thinking that it was something you had to do either from a post (somewhere to click on someone's post) or from that person's profile... so I guess that's why I couldn't figure out how to do it.
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  #23529  
Old 23.07.2020, 14:19
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

I just saw in the news a bit ago that the mayor of Portland was tear-gassed by federal agents last night, even though the mayor had done nothing to warrant it.

"The mayor of Portland, Oregon, was tear-gassed by the U.S. government late Wednesday as he stood at a fence guarding a downtown federal courthouse during another night of protests."

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/portlan...ederal-agents/

---------

What is Fascism?
https://www.livescience.com/57622-fascism.html

"Paxton, author of several books, including "The Anatomy of Fascism" (Vintage, 2005), said fascism is based more on feelings than philosophical ideas. In his 1988 essay "The Five Stages of Fascism," published in 1998 in the Journal of Modern History, he defined seven feelings that act as "mobilizing passions" for fascist regimes. They are:

The primacy of the group. Supporting the group feels more important than maintaining either individual or universal rights.
Believing that one's group is a victim. This justifies any behavior against the group's enemies.
The belief that individualism and liberalism enable dangerous decadence and have a negative effect on the group.
A strong sense of community or brotherhood. This brotherhood's "unity and purity are forged by common conviction, if possible, or by exclusionary violence if necessary."
Individual self-esteem is tied up in the grandeur of the group. Paxton called this an "enhanced sense of identity and belonging."
Extreme support of a "natural" leader, who is always male. This results in one man taking on the role of national savior.
"The beauty of violence and of will, when they are devoted to the group's success in a Darwinian struggle," Paxton wrote. The idea of a naturally superior group or, especially in Hitler's case, biological racism, fits into a fascist interpretation of Darwinism.

Once in power, "fascist dictatorships suppressed individual liberties, imprisoned opponents, forbade strikes, authorized unlimited police power in the name of national unity and revival, and committed military aggression," Paxton wrote."
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  #23530  
Old 23.07.2020, 14:38
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Only two states, Nebraska and Maine, allot electoral college votes proportionately. All other states have a winner-takes-all system.
You still need votes to become the winner in winner takes all states. It is up to each state to decide how the EC votes are attributed, not the federal government.

Tom
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  #23531  
Old 23.07.2020, 14:39
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Kinda. If they really did, with ρ = +1, Hillary would be prez today.
Hardly something to look forward to.

Tom
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  #23532  
Old 23.07.2020, 15:28
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

@Pancakes

I do not have the energy today to search sources but I remember reading that such behaviour has its roots in tribalism; not in its traditional, derogatory sense, but that we all easily can fall back into a tribal mode.
Basically, in simple form, the tribe sets its rules for its members and everybody outside the tribe is, or potentially is, an enemy and all retaliatory actions are permissable.
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  #23533  
Old 23.07.2020, 15:39
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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I just saw in the news a bit ago that the mayor of Portland was tear-gassed by federal agents last night, even though the mayor had done nothing to warrant it.

"The mayor of Portland, Oregon, was tear-gassed by the U.S. government late Wednesday as he stood at a fence guarding a downtown federal courthouse during another night of protests."

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/portlan...ederal-agents/

---------

What is Fascism?
https://www.livescience.com/57622-fascism.html

"Paxton, author of several books, including "The Anatomy of Fascism" (Vintage, 2005), said fascism is based more on feelings than philosophical ideas. In his 1988 essay "The Five Stages of Fascism," published in 1998 in the Journal of Modern History, he defined seven feelings that act as "mobilizing passions" for fascist regimes. They are:

The primacy of the group. Supporting the group feels more important than maintaining either individual or universal rights.
Believing that one's group is a victim. This justifies any behavior against the group's enemies.
The belief that individualism and liberalism enable dangerous decadence and have a negative effect on the group.
A strong sense of community or brotherhood. This brotherhood's "unity and purity are forged by common conviction, if possible, or by exclusionary violence if necessary."
Individual self-esteem is tied up in the grandeur of the group. Paxton called this an "enhanced sense of identity and belonging."
Extreme support of a "natural" leader, who is always male. This results in one man taking on the role of national savior.
"The beauty of violence and of will, when they are devoted to the group's success in a Darwinian struggle," Paxton wrote. The idea of a naturally superior group or, especially in Hitler's case, biological racism, fits into a fascist interpretation of Darwinism.

Once in power, "fascist dictatorships suppressed individual liberties, imprisoned opponents, forbade strikes, authorized unlimited police power in the name of national unity and revival, and committed military aggression," Paxton wrote."
I'm reluctant to answer you on this particular topic. I'm not sure you understand the issue on hand. There have been 2 months of ongoing protests, of rioting and looting. The common people and businesses have had enough of it.
Here you'll find a detailed account of what had taken place.
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His visit ended with his security detail engaging in a struggle with protesters late Wednesday night as they worked to get the mayor to safety, a report said.

Earlier, he moved with protesters to the fence outside of the federal courthouse where he stood at the front and was tear-gassed along with the crowd
He didn't get tear-gassed on purpose, he was standing with the protesters, who once again, didn't disperse when DHS told them to disperse.
There is rule of law which has to be respect, otherwise the whole world would look like Mogadishu on a sunny day. I don't see how you cannot comprehend that. You claim that they're protesting against racism, racism which simply does not exist. As I said on another thread. BLM, from the time after George Floyd's death has killed more people than the KKK in the last 50 years. You cannot allow a small group of individuals to wreak havoc over a false narrative and fictitious inequality.
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Old 23.07.2020, 15:53
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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I'm reluctant to answer you on this particular topic. I'm not sure you understand the issue on hand. There have been 2 months of ongoing protests, of rioting and looting. The common people and businesses have had enough of it.
Here you'll find a detailed account of what had taken place.


He didn't get tear-gassed on purpose, he was standing with the protesters, who once again, didn't disperse when DHS told them to disperse.
There is rule of law which has to be respect, otherwise the whole world would look like Mogadishu on a sunny day. I don't see how you cannot comprehend that. You claim that they're protesting against racism, racism which simply does not exist. As I said on another thread. BLM, from the time after George Floyd's death has killed more people than the KKK in the last 50 years. You cannot allow a small group of individuals to wreak havoc over a false narrative and fictitious inequality.
" The common people and businesses have had enough of it. " In every US city I have ever visited the Downtown is abandoned at night by "common people and businesses", people out in the suburbs likely have little or no visibility of the protests.

I remember years ago I worked in London and drove through Brixton every day but never saw anything of the Brixton riots.
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Old 23.07.2020, 16:05
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

On the topic of "US racism" Trump doubled down again last night with assigning blame for the uptick in coronavirus cases.
Trump suggested that Mexico was responsible implying that border-crossers are bringing the disease into the US en masse, even though public health officials haven't publicly made this same accusation and many States (like Washington) have had increases despite no Mexican border.
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Old 23.07.2020, 16:12
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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You claim that they're protesting against racism, racism which simply does not exist.
Therein lies the problem.
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Old 23.07.2020, 16:41
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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@Pancakes

I do not have the energy today to search sources but I remember reading that such behaviour has its roots in tribalism; not in its traditional, derogatory sense, but that we all easily can fall back into a tribal mode.
Basically, in simple form, the tribe sets its rules for its members and everybody outside the tribe is, or potentially is, an enemy and all retaliatory actions are permissable.
Interesting...

I was actually thinking about tribalism and tribal mentality just a few days ago, but in terms of how it might apply to racism and xenophobia today. It was common for tribes to perceive anyone outside of their own group as a threat, and tribal warfare would often result because of that perceived threat. One has to wonder if that mode of thinking could somehow be inherent in human nature. It does appear that there are plenty of humans who haven't yet evolved beyond that mentality, at least.
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Old 23.07.2020, 16:57
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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I'm reluctant to answer you on this particular topic. I'm not sure you understand the issue on hand. There have been 2 months of ongoing protests, of rioting and looting. The common people and businesses have had enough of it.
Here you'll find a detailed account of what had taken place.


He didn't get tear-gassed on purpose, he was standing with the protesters, who once again, didn't disperse when DHS told them to disperse.
There is rule of law which has to be respect, otherwise the whole world would look like Mogadishu on a sunny day. I don't see how you cannot comprehend that. You claim that they're protesting against racism, racism which simply does not exist. As I said on another thread. BLM, from the time after George Floyd's death has killed more people than the KKK in the last 50 years. You cannot allow a small group of individuals to wreak havoc over a false narrative and fictitious inequality.
You say it's a rule of law, which has to be respected, but it is clearly stated in the US Constitution that people have the right to protest. Why is that not being respected?

First Amendment
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

Source: https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitu...irst_amendment

It's interesting that people on the right claim that it is their "constitutional right" to own guns, and yet when people exercise their constitutional right to assemble and protest, somehow that right is ignored and negated.

Also, the link you included is an article on Fox News. I have learned to take everything they publish with a HUGE mound of salt. They always skew everything to appear to be in the president's and the GOP's favor due to their bias (they are infamous for doing so), and they have been doing a fine job of trying to equate protestors with looters and rioters -- failing to report or recognize the fact that the majority of protestors are not rioters or looters. They have never reported anything about the many peaceful protests that have been going on, and they've been trying to encourage hatred toward all protestors because of it.

Also, you claim that racism does not exist. I think we've already had this conversation, when I said that when it's not you who is directly experiencing racism as a normal part of your life, then I guess it's easy to deny that racism exists. Just a month or so ago, two white men in their pick up truck shot and killed a black jogger after calling him a "n***er" etc. when the jogger had been doing nothing but jogging and minding his own business. Now tell me again that racism doesn't exist.
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Old 23.07.2020, 17:28
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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It's interesting that people on the right claim that it is their "constitutional right" to own guns, and yet when people exercise their constitutional right to assemble and protest, somehow that right is ignored and negated.
But interestingly large parts of the left are trying very hard to restrict gun rights.

Effectively saying the constitution is an outdated document.

Either you believe in the constitution or you don't. You can't have it both ways.

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Also, the link you included is an article on Fox News. I have learned to take everything they publish with a HUGE mound of salt. They always skew everything to appear to be in the president's and the GOP's favor due to their bias (they are infamous for doing so),
Yet other news sources have been trying very hard to put everything Trump does into negative light.

So you are Ok with extreme bias when it suits you, and intolerant of it when it doesn't?

You don't believe in reading both sides of every story and forming your own opinion?

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Also, you claim that racism does not exist. I think we've already had this conversation, when I said that when it's not you who is directly experiencing racism as a normal part of your life, then I guess it's easy to deny that racism exists. Just a month or so ago, two white men in their pick up truck shot and killed a black jogger after calling him a "n***er" etc. when the jogger had been doing nothing but jogging and minding his own business. Now tell me again that racism doesn't exist.
Anecdotal evidence.

In real terms huge progress has been made in bridging the racial divide and there is probably less racism in the USA today than at any time in history. More black people with college degrees, in white-collar jobs, in management, owning companies, in politics etc etc than ever before in history. Prior to Corona, lowest unemployment rate for blacks possibly in all of history. More interracial marriages than ever before in history. And have you already forgotten about that black guy who was president? None of that looks like a country that is drifting more and more into racism.

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Old 23.07.2020, 17:42
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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But interestingly large parts of the left are trying very hard to restrict gun rights.

Effectively saying the constitution is an outdated document.

Either you believe in the constitution or you don't. You can't have it both ways.
Personally, I think a complete revision of the US Constitution is long overdue. It's an entirely different world now from when it was written.

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Yet other news sources have been trying very hard to put everything Trump does into negative light.

So you are Ok with extreme bias when it suits you, and intolerant of it when it doesn't?

You don't believe in reading both sides of every story and forming your own opinion?
No, I'm actually annoyed with how extremely one-sided the media has become. It's all about ratings and appeasing the mentality of their followers. I see and realize how both sides do it. However, I have seen plenty of non-biased articles about Trump on sites like CNN. (For example, when he signs a new bill). They don't only publish articles that are negative about Trump. Also, keep in mind that ANYTHING that is published or said that is negative about Trump is instinctively labeled as "fake news" by him and his followers.

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Anecdotal evidence.

In real terms huge progress has been made in bridging the racial divide and there is probably less racism in the USA today than at any time in history. More black people in white-collar jobs, in management, owning companies, in politics etc etc than ever before in history. Have you already forgotten about that black guy who was president?
Yes, but that progress doesn't mean that racism is no longer a problem. It is still very much alive in the US, and every time I go back to the US to visit, I am reminded of it.

Also, yes, I do remember "that black guy who was president." And I remember the ways the right was constantly criticizing him, non-stop, for eight years because of it. He couldn't even wear a tan suit without people on the right making a big deal out of it. He was constantly being harassed by the right. They even demanded that he supply a copy of his birth certificate after accusing him of not being born in the US and for being a Muslim, etc.

Personally, I think US politics has become a civil war between the left and the right, and meanwhile Americans are caught in the middle because everyone wants them on their side, and nothing is really getting done to actually address the real problems and issues in the US. They're only becoming worse. 20+ years ago, this kind of extreme hatred between the left and the right didn't really exist. What happened? Is the internet to blame? The media? I have no idea.
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