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View Poll Results: Will Trump be a good President?
Yes 93 26.57%
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  #23761  
Old 30.07.2020, 15:22
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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What may be good for the country may not be so great for them personally. Not sure that I like this expected self sabotage - the rat race work tempo and no private life is already notorious in the US (and elsewhere).
What's this about self sabotage?

I thought they spend oodles of time golfing.

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  #23762  
Old 30.07.2020, 15:24
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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What's this about self sabotage?

I thought they spend oodles of time golfing.

I hope so.
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  #23763  
Old 30.07.2020, 15:27
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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People from Hollywood disagree
I was actually thinking about that, if you check out George Clooney, who in my understanding is one of the "better with age" crowd, from 2008 to 2016 he's aged as expected and around the same age as Obama.
I think it's the grey hair more than anything.

Of course plastic surgery can do strange things but I don't think that's the norm or even the 1% of cases.
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  #23764  
Old 30.07.2020, 15:35
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Political parties don’t exist in a vacuum! Arguing that the system is wrong because there is no party offering an alternative view that has failed to gain any support makes no sense.

It’s like the Irish Freedom Party’s claim that they’d definitely get candidates elected to parliament if they were on the ballot paper. Ignoring that fact that in an average constituency of 90k voters, they cannot find the 300 voters required to get them on the ballot paper in the first place.
I did not posit that everything is down to the ills of the two party system, that is merely one issue of many in a broken system - and it is indeed broken, on just about every level of government

Instead I would argue that political oligarchs from this two party system have done a fine job killing any chance of alternative party choices
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  #23765  
Old 30.07.2020, 15:50
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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I did not posit that everything is down to the ills of the two party system, that is merely one issue of many in a broken system - and it is indeed broken, on just about every level of government

Instead I would argue that political oligarchs from this two party system have done a fine job killing any chance of alternative party choices
Neverthless, the system wasn't immune to an outsider like Trump coming in and playing everybody to his advantage.

I guess you don't approve of Trump, but my point here is that if he managed it, then somebody you approve of could hypothetically also manage it.
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  #23766  
Old 30.07.2020, 15:53
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Instead I would argue that political oligarchs from this two party system have done a fine job killing any chance of alternative party choices
The change has a chance if it comes bottom-up, so far the voters seem to groom their oligarchs as their little desk top Japanese garden. How do you make people want something else. I'd also say media are the oligarchs, not the politicians.
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  #23767  
Old 30.07.2020, 16:06
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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The change has a chance if it comes bottom-up, so far the voters seem to groom their oligarchs as their little desk top Japanese garden. How do you make people want something else. I'd also say media are the oligarchs, not the politicians.
A political system is like an oil tanker. It has huge inertia and no singular event can change its course. But over time and given sufficient events it will change course.

And the media is very much part of that. The media has an agenda and does distort and hide and more often than not lie through its teeth. But there is a limit to how much and how long it can distort. Sooner or it bends and gives way too. The media, like political leaders, are in a game of eternal pacing and leading. They need to say what their audience wants to hear to get their attention and earn their respect (pace), and then use that attention to tell them what they don't want to hear but what they ought to know (lead). Too much pacing leads to irrelevent tripe and tabloidism. Too much leading leads to an ivory tower mentality and not being listened to. They need to strike the right balance.
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  #23768  
Old 30.07.2020, 16:18
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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I was actually thinking about that, if you check out George Clooney, who in my understanding is one of the "better with age" crowd..
No.

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A political system is like an oil tanker. It has huge inertia and no singular event can change its course. But over time and given sufficient events it will change course.

And the media is very much part of that. The media has an agenda and does distort and hide and more often than not lie through its teeth. But there is a limit to how much and how long it can distort. Sooner or it bends and gives way too. The media, like political leaders, are in a game of eternal pacing and leading. They need to say what their audience wants to hear to get their attention and earn their respect (pace), and then use that attention to tell them what they don't want to hear but what they ought to know (lead). Too much pacing leads to irrelevent tripe and tabloidism. Too much leading leads to an ivory tower mentality and not being listened to. They need to strike the right balance.
Nobody ever does.

But it is a nice sounding theory. The only people who will ever succeed, imho, are those who know that the reality is and will always be different than the reasonable or optimal scenario. People are tired of listening about constructs and dreams. That's what I have noticed. You will not lift their spirit by more constructs and more dreams.

I think leadership is overrated. And it smells of hierarchy which is the fastest way to deprive people of their responsibility. I think people need to accept that they, themselves, are the biggest leaders of progress and improvement and hold themselves accountable. Value their choices and investments. Progress does not rely on leaders. That idea (getting people's attention, listening to them...in order to lead them) is outdated and orthodox, paternalistic, iconodule. Church and politics are losing their infantilizing air, in a similar vein.

CH has its brief yearly representation and reschuffling. High personal responsibility and accountability. There is a reason for this.
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Last edited by MusicChick; 30.07.2020 at 16:51.
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  #23769  
Old 30.07.2020, 17:02
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Neverthless, the system wasn't immune to an outsider like Trump coming in and playing everybody to his advantage.

I guess you don't approve of Trump, but my point here is that if he managed it, then somebody you approve of could hypothetically also manage it.
The system purported to have checks & balances to avoid situation ongoing with Trump - it has failed, dramatically. Then you see Dems voting for military budget increases pushed by Republicans in what is meant to be a COVID bill in congress and you see that it is indeed two sides of the same coin

Trump came in on the Republican ticket so I am not sure the point you are trying to make. I would argue that AOC, Omar and many others in congress could conceivably start a new party to thwart the power structure that is responsible for the broken system but would struggle to survive considering how corrupt those two are at consolidating their power & killing off those that pose a threat to the hegemony

I don't approve of either Biden or Trump and obviously one is inherently worse or more incompetent than the other but I do not make important decisions in my life based on which is less worse/evil that have a cascading effect. So I would not do that with a vote either.
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  #23770  
Old 30.07.2020, 17:11
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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The system purported to have checks & balances to avoid situation ongoing with Trump - it has failed, dramatically.
is checks and balances a euphemism for keeping outsiders out of the game?

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Trump came in on the Republican ticket
Yes, but he hijacked them. And so could anybody else.

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I would argue that AOC, Omar and many others in congress could conceivably start a new party to thwart the power structure
They too are hijacking an existing party. It's just easier than building their own from scratch. The situation is pretty much symmetrical as far as I can see.
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  #23771  
Old 30.07.2020, 17:21
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

Trump suggests delay to 2020 US presidential election

Yep, Biden is an absolute disaster. And yet, he's a brilliant statesman compared to the incumbent imbecile.


https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-ca...X8jwk-ocrCncu0
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  #23772  
Old 30.07.2020, 17:35
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

People did not vote a brilliant statesman or a leader but somebody who said that the power is in their hands. And ultimately - he was right.
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  #23773  
Old 30.07.2020, 17:37
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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People did not vote a brilliant statesman or a leader but somebody who said that the power is in their hands. And ultimately - he was right.
Nope, because what he's suggesting is ridiculous and he DOESN'T have the power to do. In other words, he's an incompetent imbecile.
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  #23774  
Old 30.07.2020, 17:58
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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is checks and balances a euphemism for keeping outsiders out of the game?
Founding principle of the system of government that dates back to ancient Rome, framers of the constitution included this to prevent any branch of government (Here the executive) from wielding too much unchecked power

Of course, you can game this broken system by rigging both the judicial & legislative branches which is precisely what is going on in the US

So yes, it failed dramatically and we know what happened in Rome
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  #23775  
Old 30.07.2020, 18:02
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

This "delay the election" thing is probably some test balloon - but also the timing coincides nicely with the Q2 US GDP data coming in (-32.9%) and unemployment claims going in the wrong direction.
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Old 30.07.2020, 18:04
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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So yes, it failed dramatically and we know what happened in Rome
No system is better or worse than the people operating it. Given enough time and energy, any effective system could be broken and vice-versa
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  #23777  
Old 30.07.2020, 18:07
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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It makes it predictable and easy to control, priorities quite important in consumerism.
Take a look at Germany or Switzerland, probably most multi-party political systems (the Italians don't count ). *That* is predictability and thereby ability to control. Even the French manage to team up if it's against Le Pen.
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Old 30.07.2020, 18:19
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

Sad news, no doubt we will see many such well known names in the next weeks
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Herman Cain, a onetime Republican presidential candidate and former CEO of Godfather's Pizza, has died from coronavirus,.

As a co-chair of Black Voices for Trump, Cain was one of the surrogates at President Donald Trump's June 20 rally in Tulsa, Oklahoma -- which saw at least eight Trump advance team staffers in attendance test positive for coronavirus.
In other news Trump supporter Rep. Louie Gohmert (R-Texas) said Wednesday he will take hydroxychloroquine that experts have warned doesn’t treat the coronavirus after he tested positive for the virus.
Wonder if Herman Cain was treated with that?

& finally,
Federal Elections Commission (FEC) Commissioner Ellen Weintraub flatly stated on Thursday that the executive branch does not have the power to delay a presidential election after President Trump stirred an uproar by raising the idea in an early morning tweet.
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Old 30.07.2020, 19:01
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Take a look at Germany or Switzerland, probably most multi-party political systems (the Italians don't count ). *That* is predictability and thereby ability to control. Even the French manage to team up if it's against Le Pen.
Where have I said Germany and Switzerland are consumerism based countries? They aren't as much as the US. Consumerism needs to know the tastes of tomorrow. German and Swiss stable economy can dictate what is available to people and people will comply or will be ok with it because not everything is driven by consumerism. Freedom comes with responsibility and while I think the freedom to buy whatever does exist in the US, vote whoever too (well, whoever of them 2), to deny oneself sometimes something is considered almost limiting one's freedom so people are easily controlled by being told what all they need to have, buy and achieve, even edu-wise and life goal wise. It is not always quality nor do they need all that either. But it makes their choice manipulable and controllable. Anyways, I didn't want to get into this.
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Last edited by MusicChick; 30.07.2020 at 19:18.
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  #23780  
Old 30.07.2020, 19:01
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Sad news, no doubt we will see many such well known names in the next weeks


In other news Trump supporter Rep. Louie Gohmert (R-Texas) said Wednesday he will take hydroxychloroquine that experts have warned doesn’t treat the coronavirus after he tested positive for the virus.
Wonder if Herman Cain was treated with that?

& finally,
Federal Elections Commission (FEC) Commissioner Ellen Weintraub flatly stated on Thursday that the executive branch does not have the power to delay a presidential election after President Trump stirred an uproar by raising the idea in an early morning tweet.
BTW, the Commission is supposed to have six members but only three at the moment. They need a quorum of four to conduct their business so are blocked.

Trump is supposed to nominate the new Commissioners but so far has failed to do so.
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