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View Poll Results: Will Trump be a good President?
Yes 93 26.50%
No 258 73.50%
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  #23921  
Old 15.08.2020, 16:10
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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2 - There's always an application, and in the case of absentee voting, there are always two.
What about mail-in voting? Is it the same worklow, except it starts one step "further up" with the sending of the application form to whomever?

And why does Trump claim it's safe in Florida's case but not elsewhere? I don't buy "Fla is Republican" as a reason, that applies to many other states as well.
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  #23922  
Old 15.08.2020, 16:52
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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What about mail-in voting? Is it the same worklow, except it starts one step "further up" with the sending of the application form to whomever?

And why does Trump claim it's safe in Florida's case but not elsewhere? I don't buy "Fla is Republican" as a reason, that applies to many other states as well.
Absentee voting and mail-in voting are basically the same thing, in that the ballots are sent via the post. They can be returned via the post (postage paid by the government if within the USA) or dropped off at county clerks, designated drop boxes, etc.

If you want to dial it down more - Absentee voting is when a person cannot or does not want to vote in person and instead requests a ballot to be sent to the home. This is how overseas voters, overseas military, shut-ins, people who will be working on election day, etc. regularly vote. Each of these requests is signed by the voter, as are the envelopes of the absentee ballots.

Mail-in voting is when the state has chosen not to have polling places everywhere and instead sends ballots to everyone who is registered. Only a handful of states do this: Colorado, Hawaii (starting this month), Oregon, Utah, and Washington. These states regularly send notices and verification postcards out to voters during the election cycle via the post. If a notice is returned as undeliverable, usually a second notice is sent just in case. If the second notice bounces, the voter record is inactivated.

In the states mentioned just above, ballots are sent to all active, registered voters. When returned, the ballot envelope must be signed (and sometimes witnessed) or it's not counted. Trained workers compare the signatures on the ballots to the signatures on file. If there's a discrepancy, there's a whole procedure that varies from state to state.

As for Trump, I believe he shares a common misconception that these forms of voting are totally different and therefore one is more susceptible to fraud than the other. I would also guess he thinks Florida is "safe" because ballots are not automatically mailed out and voters must specifically ask for one or show up at the polls.
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  #23923  
Old 15.08.2020, 17:14
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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If he is left alone to get on with it, but unfortunately he has had to deal with Covid19, BLM, Democrat accusations etc etc

I hope he gets a second term, as if they allow Joe Biden as president and Kamala Harris as VP, god help the US as it will quickly go down the pan.
Must have been a nasty surprise having to face Democratic accusations, they have only been doing that for over a couple of centuries

Not only the Dems, look up Lee Atwater.
  #23924  
Old 16.08.2020, 06:01
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

Hah this is genius! One of many brutal videos on this adminstration... https://www.youtube.com/c/TheLincolnProject/videos

  #23925  
Old 16.08.2020, 11:32
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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I think it is much higher than 80%. In our (albeit small) village they had one voter show up once, with his ballot in hand to deposit on the day. They don't even have ballots in the voting office, you are expected to bring your own. (They do have a procedure if you don't)

80% may be those that voted by mail, but most of the others dropped their ballot off at the commune. (As I do as it saves two stamps)
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What do you mean, they have to bring their own ballot?

Funny sentence. So most of the others are more than 80% of all? And voting by mail is free of postal charge, by the way.
Ah, and two days later I got what you mean.
I mixed up ballot-box with ballot.

Yes, in Switzerland one ballot per person is issued and sent to your address by mail. That's the one to hand in. Better not lose it as you don't get replacement. When you do hand it in, you don't need to show identification. What's new is that you have to sign it in any case (before it was only when voting by mail).
  #23926  
Old 16.08.2020, 13:39
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Mail-in voting is when the state has chosen not to have polling places everywhere and instead sends ballots to everyone who is registered. Only a handful of states do this: Colorado, Hawaii (starting this month), Oregon, Utah, and Washington. These states regularly send notices and verification postcards out to voters during the election cycle via the post. If a notice is returned as undeliverable, usually a second notice is sent just in case. If the second notice bounces, the voter record is inactivated.
Looks like CA has switched as well for November.

Do you have, or know where to get, stats on the percentage of rejected votes? Ideally from the 2016 POTUS election?
20% rejected votes like in NYC won't go down well, probably not even in solid-blue CA even though maybe it wouldn't make a difference.
  #23927  
Old 16.08.2020, 14:33
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Looks like CA has switched as well for November.

Do you have, or know where to get, stats on the percentage of rejected votes? Ideally from the 2016 POTUS election?
20% rejected votes like in NYC won't go down well, probably not even in solid-blue CA even though maybe it wouldn't make a difference.
Do you mean rejected absentee ballots or all rejected votes? Keep in mind some people vote at the polls and still mess it up, thus invalidating their ballots.

Yes, some states are switching to mail-in for November, which has the potential for disaster, imo. The states listed above (except Hawaii) have been doing this for a while and know how to handle it. Other states, particularly ones with large populations...good luck?

I don't see the need for this switch, tbh. If people want to vote absentee, they can request it. I don't see the need to spend the money to send out ballots to everyone even if they don't ask for it, particularly if the state hasn't sent out any kind of confirmation postcard to make sure the addresses are still valid.
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  #23928  
Old 16.08.2020, 15:39
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Looks like CA has switched as well for November.

Do you have, or know where to get, stats on the percentage of rejected votes? Ideally from the 2016 POTUS election?
20% rejected votes like in NYC won't go down well, probably not even in solid-blue CA even though maybe it wouldn't make a difference.
Not exactly what you are looking for but has some relevant information here.

Example
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Approximately 80.1 percent of absentee ballots that were transmitted to voters were returned and processed, with 1.4 percent of transmitted ballots returned as undeliverable and 2 percent reported as spoiled (e.g., the voter returned the ballot and asked for a replacement).

Ninety-nine percent of absentee ballots categorized as “returned and submitted for counting” were ultimately counted in the 2016 election.
318,728 ballots — just under 1% of returned absentee ballots — were rejected across the country, pages 29/31.
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  #23929  
Old 16.08.2020, 16:29
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

Thanks marton, that helps quite a bit.
Yes, not exactly what I was looking for but it makes the situation clear enough.
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Do you mean rejected absentee ballots or all rejected votes? Keep in mind some people vote at the polls and still mess it up, thus invalidating their ballots.
marton's post makes things clear enough for me, 1% rejected absentee ballots in 2016 vs 20% two months ago in NYC speaks volumes - it was a disaster. Thank you.

One problem with the NYC primaries was caused by the fact that the postage was prepaid by the city, so (some?) post offices didn't stamp the ballot papers, thus there's no way to determine afterwards whether the ballot papers were sent on time. However that was a minor reason for rejection, lacking signature(s) was the main one.

A problem with absentee voting is that it requires planning ahead. As such I think a reminder is useful, e.g. a postcard to all registered voters inviting the request for an absentee vote.

Yes, some states appear to be risking chaos. Including CA, where the voters showing up at the voting office during the primaries had to wait for many hours. On the plus side though, this move by CA, concentrating on relatively few voting centers, seems to give rise to ten sequential voting days, IMO a huge plus if they get their shit together.
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  #23930  
Old 16.08.2020, 16:47
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

Hard to understand why Trump is so against mail-in voting; he said it would mean the GOP would lose but there is no evidence to support this.
There is some evidence that States who introduced mail-in saw a small increase in voter turnout but not that Dems used it more.
Universal vote-by-mail has no impact on partisan turnout or vote share

One unexpected side effect for Trump might be that all the publicity about USPS delivery problems will cause people to post their votes early, where possible.

Trump is badly behind Biden in most polls but is hoping to catch up before election day; but if many people had already posted their votes then his catch up might be too late.

Of course, if Trump wants to waste his time attacking mail-in voting then he is welcome...
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  #23931  
Old 16.08.2020, 17:24
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

Universal vote by maul isn’t going to happen. If voters have to request a ballot, some of them won’t. If they have to fill it out correctly and mail it some won’t. If the USPS has to collect ballots some won’t make it in time, some may get lost.

Voter suppression is what Republicans aspire to.
  #23932  
Old 16.08.2020, 17:48
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Universal vote by maul isn’t going to happen.
That's a shame. I like the concept: last man standing, may the best man win, survival of the fittest and all that. I reckon Biden would spank Trump's voluptuous butt.
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  #23933  
Old 16.08.2020, 17:55
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Universal vote by maul isn’t going to happen. If voters have to request a ballot, some of them won’t. If they have to fill it out correctly and mail it some won’t. If the USPS has to collect ballots some won’t make it in time, some may get lost.

Voter suppression is what Republicans aspire to.
Suppressing the votes of your own supporters might be too much of a good thing.
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  #23934  
Old 17.08.2020, 08:25
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Neither you nor HickvonFrick has provided actual evidence though, just more of the same talking points. There is no evidence that absentee ballots or vote by mail are "more open to fraud, tampering, abuse and intimidation." There are many checks against fraud and tampering. I can see your point a little bit on the abuse and intimidation, but even those would be a small number and not likely to swing an election.

Five states vote almost exclusively by mail (there are in-person options too but they're limited). The rest of the states have a combination. Each state determines its own mail-in voting rules, there's no federal rule. So no, there will not be widespread elimination of mail in voting this election or any other any time soon. Remember, seniors tend to vote Republican and they overwhelmingly vote by mail. Even Trump is voting by mail.

Let's be honest. Mail in voting or not, Trump will clog the court system if he doesn't win outright. He's already put in place plans to do so. Precedent from Bush v. Gore would indicate that he'd have an uphill battle trying to overturn many states or use delay tactics.
We've had a member of this forum admitting to abusing the mail voting system recently, and who has been voting illegally. It's also difficult to prove abuse, but logically it's clear that postal voting is far more open to abuse than turning up at a polling station with ID.

What I'm struggling to understand, surely mail voting would benefit President Trump more than Joe Biden as President Trump's voters are likely to be older. Surely removal of postal voting would be a hindrance to the President (unless of course people are planning to vote on behalf of their dead relatives).

What I also don't understand is why there is such outcry over wanting an election to be done as fairly and accurately as possible. Certainly makes you think!
  #23935  
Old 17.08.2020, 09:17
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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What I also don't understand is why there is such outcry over wanting an election to be done as fairly and accurately as possible. Certainly makes you think!
Because mail-in voter fraud is proven to be a statistical non-issue? https://www.nytimes.com/article/mail...ud-ballot.html

"Certainly makers you think!"... although likely not so much in your case.
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  #23936  
Old 17.08.2020, 09:30
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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We've had a member of this forum admitting to abusing the mail voting system recently, and who has been voting illegally. It's also difficult to prove abuse, but logically it's clear that postal voting is far more open to abuse than turning up at a polling station with ID.

What I'm struggling to understand, surely mail voting would benefit President Trump more than Joe Biden as President Trump's voters are likely to be older. Surely removal of postal voting would be a hindrance to the President (unless of course people are planning to vote on behalf of their dead relatives).

What I also don't understand is why there is such outcry over wanting an election to be done as fairly and accurately as possible. Certainly makes you think!
Theoretically maybe it's clear to you that postal voting is far more open to abuse than turning up at a polling station with ID but in reality only 18 US sates require photo id and only another 17 just some form of id like an envelope with your address on it.

Photo id is seen as vote suppression since many poor people have none.

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  #23937  
Old 17.08.2020, 09:31
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Because mail-in voter fraud is proven to be a statistical non-issue? https://www.nytimes.com/article/mail...ud-ballot.html

"Certainly makers you think!"... although likely not so much in your case.
An opinion piece from a partisan news outlet! Look what I found, there's even PROOF!

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/vote...-deroy-murdock
  #23938  
Old 17.08.2020, 09:41
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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An opinion piece from a partisan news outlet! Look what I found, there's even PROOF!

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/vote...-deroy-murdock
Your link destroys your claim in person voting is safer
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Philadelphia election judge Domenick J. DeMuro pleaded guilty last May to federal charges of exchanging rigged votes for a Democratic consultant’s bribes of $300 to $5,000 per election. “He would add the fraudulent votes by literally standing in the voting booth and voting over and over, as fast as he could, when he thought the coast was clear,”
Do you read your links before posting?

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Old 17.08.2020, 09:44
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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An opinion piece from a partisan news outlet! Look what I found, there's even PROOF!

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/vote...-deroy-murdock
I know you are a troll Tony, and not a particularly intelligent one to boot, but the evidence that mail-in voting is not subject to significant fraud or boas is overwhelming if you simply do your research.

https://latino.ucla.edu/wp-content/u...-Fraud-res.pdf

http://www.andrewbenjaminhall.com/Th..._et_al_VBM.pdf

https://www.factcheck.org/2016/10/tr...-fraud-claims/

However, we all all know you are not interested in facts, science or research, or an actual debate. You are just stubbornly and repetitively pushing your agenda in each and every political thread.

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Your link destroys your claim in person voting is safer


Do you read your links before posting?

That would be giving him far too much credit. He doesn't read any links or evidence... period.
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Old 17.08.2020, 10:00
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Theoretically maybe it's clear to you that postal voting is far more open to abuse than turning up at a polling station with ID but in reality only 18 US sates require photo id and only another 17 just some form of id like an envelope with your address on it.

Photo id is seen as vote suppression since many poor people have none.

Attachment 140065

How much does the equivalent of a "Personalausweis" in the US cost to issue then?


I think it usually costs 20 € in Germany (but because I'm not a resident, they charge double, same for the passport).


People might mock the UK for still being a monarchy, but it looks like it's still better organized than the fiefdom with nukes and ICBMs that is the US...


That said, it would be interesting to know how many poor people in Germany actually bother to vote.
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