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  #24621  
Old 10.01.2021, 01:56
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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There is; that's Parler. But Google is doing a good.job of silencing it, too.
Yes... A very good job indeed.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/08/tech/...ved/index.html

And it looks as though Apple will do the same:

https://www.theverge.com/2021/1/9/22...rler-app-store
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  #24622  
Old 10.01.2021, 02:07
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

I have to say, while I cannot stand Trump, I think there are grave consequences for "canceling" those who do not subscribe to one's views. It's a slippery slope here and the foundations of the US constitution are based upon freedom of speech.

I think Twitter, Facebook et al have too much power to delete/cancel those whom they find objectionable. Are they the new "Thought Police"? And what about Apple and Google? Who are they to censure the content I choose to read?

There is a very fine line regarding censorship/oppression and I am worried those lines have been blurred and/or transgressed...

Not good in my view... regardless of my disdain of Trump.
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  #24623  
Old 10.01.2021, 07:02
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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I think he does indeed still have a lot of supporters, but I also think he has lost some. Most of the Trump supporters that I know are now very much against him, because of the riots, and I've seen a lot of reports of his (now previous) supporters posting on their social media, etc. how they feel betrayed by him and are pissed off because of it. He told them to march to the Capitol and "show strength" because their country was stolen from them and then condemned them for what they did and told them they would be prosecuted for it. So he basically instigated the riots and then blamed it solely on them.

It would be interesting, though, to see how many Republican Senators would be willing to vote him out if the impeachment did get to the Senate vote.

Personally, considering what happened on Wednesday, I think the most important thing is to not allow Trump to have a chance at taking office again.
Yup, he will bleed support as the more rational part of his userbase see what has happened and are unable to deny it. All that will be left will be the radical crew who will delude themselves into thinking that he still wasn't at fault.

At some point a new Republican champion will emerge who will not want Trumps disastrous legacy interfering with their own ambitions. To facilitate this, media outlets like Fox will turn on Trump and then the brainwashing will slowly do it's thing to change opinions among the userbase.

I think he is truly, truly done in politics now... a nasty and stubborn stain on the collective memory of the nation. It's also amusing to have been watching people on EF defend him as "clever" or "misunderstood" for the last 4 years, despite how utterly and OBVIOUSLY FRICKEN CRAZY, IRRATIONAL AND DEPRAVED he was and despite all the truly unacceptable things he did. Well, it looks like even the most die-hard apologists we have on EF are now finally changing their tune, though I am not sure their views can be taken so seriously in political threads ever again.

Last edited by Chuff; 10.01.2021 at 08:51. Reason: Added detail
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  #24624  
Old 10.01.2021, 07:35
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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I have to say, while I cannot stand Trump, I think there are grave consequences for "canceling" those who do not subscribe to one's views. It's a slippery slope here and the foundations of the US constitution are based upon freedom of speech.

I think Twitter, Facebook et al have too much power to delete/cancel those whom they find objectionable. Are they the new "Thought Police"? And what about Apple and Google? Who are they to censure the content I choose to read?

There is a very fine line regarding censorship/oppression and I am worried those lines have been blurred and/or transgressed...

Not good in my view... regardless of my disdain of Trump.
Google and Apple have terms and Conditions which App developers are obliged to follow. One of these T&C is that the app should take all necessary steps to not publish posts that advocate crimes. The Supreme Court has long held the view that free speech does not include speech that incites an immediate crime.

Apparently both Google and Apple discussed this with Parler and they refused to agree to remove existing posts not protected by the freedom of speech nor to agree to delete any similar posts in the future.

If you were going to sue because you were injured by speech not protected by the 1st Amendment who are you going after? Parler or Google? Parler or Apple?

As a result G&A (independently) decided to delete the apps from their services. Their liability is high for actions that they cannot control, other than removing the offending product from their stores.

That’s doesn’t mean that Parler cannot write apps to be used on Android and/or iOS devices. Just that G&A will not assist them in marketing through their “stores”. [I admit this is much more difficult with iOS than with Android, but it is not impossible. I have one ‘side-loaded’ app on my iPhone.]
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  #24625  
Old 10.01.2021, 08:46
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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.... It's also amusing to have been watching people on EF defend him as "clever" or "misunderstood" for the last 4 years, despite how utterly and OBVIOUSLY FRICKEN CRAZY he was and despite all the truly unacceptable things he did. Well, it looks like even the most die-hard apologists we have on EF are now finally changing their tune, though I am not sure their views can be taken so seriously in political threads every again.
Yup, it was obvious on the campaign trail this was a man of low character and no morals, and it was obvious shortly after inauguration he was a wannabe autocrat too. Yet here on EF we had the apologists decrying negative stories as fake news, or trump derangement syndrome or calling him the GOAT. The media got blamed for all the negative stories when all it took was a viewing of a single speech to confirm the persona the media reported. I can only hope those that carried water for him, on EF as well as in the political system, take some time to reflect on how they could have got it so brain buggeringly wrong.
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  #24626  
Old 10.01.2021, 09:32
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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There is; that's Parler. But Google is doing a good job of silencing it, too.
As an example of the difficulties, Trump faces - Amazon on Saturday night suspended the social media platform Parler from its web hosting service. This means that unless Parler finds a new host it will be unavailable after tonight.
As already mentioned here both Apple and Google have dropped the Parler app from their stores.

It is claimed Parler has around 10 million users in total so it is tiny compared to the big ones, Trump alone had over 80 million followers on Twitter (and Obama has well over 100 million).
Whether Parler could scale up to be large enough to host Trump is a technical and financial question; assuming Parler stays in business.
It is also interesting to note that Parler has banned many left-wing users.
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  #24627  
Old 10.01.2021, 09:40
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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I have to say, while I cannot stand Trump, I think there are grave consequences for "canceling" those who do not subscribe to one's views. It's a slippery slope here and the foundations of the US constitution are based upon freedom of speech.

I think Twitter, Facebook et al have too much power to delete/cancel those whom they find objectionable. Are they the new "Thought Police"? And what about Apple and Google? Who are they to censure the content I choose to read?

There is a very fine line regarding censorship/oppression and I am worried those lines have been blurred and/or transgressed...

Not good in my view... regardless of my disdain of Trump.
Basically, you have to accept that people running "free" services can do whatever they like to their customers. You have zero leverage other than walking away.
If you want a censor-free service then you have to find a subscription service with clear terms of service; if any such exists.

You claim the censorship was of "those who do not subscribe to one's views" whereas the censors claim the reason was generally accepted views of the limits of free speech were transgressed. Do you have examples of censorship that were simply based on unpopular views.
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  #24628  
Old 10.01.2021, 09:46
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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I have to say, while I cannot stand Trump, I think there are grave consequences for "canceling" those who do not subscribe to one's views. It's a slippery slope here and the foundations of the US constitution are based upon freedom of speech.

I think Twitter, Facebook et al have too much power to delete/cancel those whom they find objectionable. Are they the new "Thought Police"? And what about Apple and Google? Who are they to censure the content I choose to read?

There is a very fine line regarding censorship/oppression and I am worried those lines have been blurred and/or transgressed...

Not good in my view... regardless of my disdain of Trump.
Ok, but it’s more than a difference of opinion....it’s actually bearing the responsibility for incitement of violence, hate speech. Does EF have the right to ban members for behaviors against their standards?

A simple difference of opinion is one thing, but this is not equivalent to inciting violence with deadly circumstances.
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  #24629  
Old 10.01.2021, 11:17
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

In the meantime, just around the corner- jubilation, celebrations and joy
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  #24630  
Old 10.01.2021, 11:20
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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In the meantime, just around the corner- jubilation, celebrations and joy
Why?

Tom
  #24631  
Old 10.01.2021, 15:28
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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...Can't he run in 2024 as an Independent (if he isn't removed from office)?
Yes, and I think he'll keep that possibility hanging over the heads of Republicans.

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I'm surprised that there isn't a more urgent attempted to neutralize him before he can do anything else. For a start, I'd like that he doesn't get a chance to pardon anybody else.
Not possible thanks to the Constitution. The president can pardon anyone for any federal crime, unless it's his own impeachment. Legal scholars disagree about whether or not he can pardon himself for non-impeachable crimes. I fully see him trying it. Why not try it? He can't pardon anyone convicted of a state crime, so there's that.

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There is; that's Parler. But Google is doing a good job of silencing it, too.
Which is getting Trump fans even more riled up about suppression of free speech.

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...to those increasingly concerned about freedom of speech and expression on online platforms, it represents another example of draconian action by major tech companies which threatens internet freedom.

Source


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Why?
Because Trump will no longer be president in 10 days, that should be obvious. Whether Biden will be any better is the subject of another thread.
  #24632  
Old 10.01.2021, 15:34
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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In the meantime, just around the corner- jubilation, celebrations and joy
I would actually love to attend Biden's inauguration ceremony if I still lived there and there wasn't a pandemic, etc. It's quite a shame, really, that his inauguration is coinciding with the pandemic, because I know soo many people would be there for it, otherwise.

But I guess we can find other ways to celebrate.
  #24633  
Old 10.01.2021, 19:57
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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I would actually love to attend Biden's inauguration ceremony if I still lived there and there wasn't a pandemic, etc. It's quite a shame, really, that his inauguration is coinciding with the pandemic, because I know soo many people would be there for it, otherwise.

But I guess we can find other ways to celebrate.
He should make a 'thing' of it, "we guarantee this will be the least attended inauguration in American history - period!"
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Old 10.01.2021, 23:00
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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He should make a 'thing' of it, "we guarantee this will be the least attended inauguration in American history - period!"
Ha haa. Knowing Biden's sense of humor, he probably would.

I read that Pence is planning to go to the inauguration, which I find to be the honorable thing to do. I just hope to god there isn't any more violence or riots at the inauguration. I'm sure it will be very heavily guarded... and very well should be.
  #24635  
Old 10.01.2021, 23:08
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

I just saw this and thought I'd share...

Trump-Biden transition live updates: Impeachment article has 200 cosponsors: US rep.
The draft, citing "incitement of insurrection," could be introduced Monday.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/live..._live_hero_hed

"Rep. David Cicilline, D-R.I., said on Twitter that an article of impeachment has just passed 200 cosponsors.

House Democrats were circulating the draft, citing "incitement of insurrection" on Friday and said they could introduce it as early as Monday and hold a vote as early as the middle of the week.

The article charges Trump with "willfully inciting violence against the government of the United States" with his comments at the rally outside the White House that it says "encouraged—and foreseeably resulted in—imminent lawless action at the Capitol."


Congratulations, Trump. You will now become the only President in US history to have been impeached twice.
  #24636  
Old 11.01.2021, 00:31
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Because Trump will no longer be president in 10 days, that should be obvious.
Unfortunately, it is not over, yet. Calls are being made for greater numbers to storm the Capitol again, on January 19th, 2021.
https://www.newsweek.com/qanon-capit...ection-1559962

https://twitter.com/MalcolmNance/sta...62958557540354
  #24637  
Old 11.01.2021, 00:39
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Unfortunately, it is not over, yet. Calls are being made for greater numbers to storm the Capitol again, on January 19th, 2021.
https://www.newsweek.com/qanon-capit...ection-1559962

https://twitter.com/MalcolmNance/sta...62958557540354
I imagine they will face some serious army hard nuts this time. Not just police.
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  #24638  
Old 11.01.2021, 00:46
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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I imagine they will face some serious army hard nuts this time. Not just police.
I hope they don't get to start the Civil War they're after.
  #24639  
Old 11.01.2021, 05:33
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"Rep. David Cicilline, D-R.I., said on Twitter that an article of impeachment has just passed 200 cosponsors."

Congratulations, Trump. You will now become the only President in US history to have been impeached twice.
Hold your horses... the article of impeachment has to be passed by the House before it takes effect, and that would require up to 218 votes for impeachment (it depends on how many Representatives are present and voting). But I think it's evident that most, if not all Democrats in the House support this second impeachment, and quite a few Republicans, too; if a vote goes ahead, it's likely to have some bipartisan support.

Trump could avoid the ignominy of a second impeachment by resigning, Nixon-style. And being the great negotiator that he is (just ask him!), he could also avoid the controversy of pardoning himself be getting incoming President Pence to do it for him.

Incidentally, should Trump be impeached again and should that impeachment progress to a vote in the Senate, the bar for conviction is not necessarily 67 Senators' votes, but a two-thirds supermajority of those Senators present. Subject to Senate quorum rules, that could turn out to be well under 67 votes.
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  #24640  
Old 11.01.2021, 12:43
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

Bet this annoyed the hell outa him.

"Trump National in Bedminster has been stripped of the US PGA Championship in 2022 as its organisers felt using the course as host would be "detrimental".

The PGA of America voted to terminate the agreement on Sunday."

https://www.bbc.com/sport/golf/55615022
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