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View Poll Results: Will Trump be a good President?
Yes 61 27.35%
No 162 72.65%
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  #2501  
Old 22.01.2017, 15:35
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Actually quite a few of my friends marched and their reasoning wasn't so much that Trump won, but their concern about his cabinet picks and proposed changes to many things, mostly women's' rights. This was their way of saying "We don't like the course of action that you're proposing and want you to carefully consider the future"

My own concerns about his term is any regression on environmental issues. It is selfish of me, I know, but human rights violations will be "only" in the US. But the loosening of EPA regulations, the denying of climate change, etc - those affect the world on a much more concerning scale. My one real pet peeve of his is the plan to sell of some of the US National Parks. To me this is an irreversible step and a huge loss to the American public.


One final comment: the people who smashed windows and were otherwise destructive during the marchers can please take a long walk off a short pier. That type of action was 100% uncalled for.
So much all of this.

I didn't hear of violence or destruction during the march, although it is difficult to imagine nothing with so many events and so many people. I did hear of rioting during the inauguration, however and some of the rioters were suspected to be plants.
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  #2502  
Old 22.01.2017, 15:41
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Actually quite a few of my friends marched and their reasoning wasn't so much that Trump won, but their concern about his cabinet picks and proposed changes to many things, mostly women's' rights. This was their way of saying "We don't like the course of action that you're proposing and want you to carefully consider the future"

My own concerns about his term is any regression on environmental issues. It is selfish of me, I know, but human rights violations will be "only" in the US. But the loosening of EPA regulations, the denying of climate change, etc - those affect the world on a much more concerning scale. My one real pet peeve of his is the plan to sell of some of the US National Parks. To me this is an irreversible step and a huge loss to the American public.

One final comment: the people who smashed windows and were otherwise destructive during the marchers can please take a long walk off a short pier. That type of action was 100% uncalled for.
There is a wide diversity of issues beyond hating Trump where the protesters would likely diverge. It needs to find cohesion with real issues, and de facto leaders. It really needs to bring more to the table than simple sentiments and outrage.

Trump is likely to defund the international operations of Planned Parenthood very soon.

By the way, I think he will be selling more than National Parks. The infrastructure projects he proposes(airports, roads, rivers and walls), is unlikely to get funding from Congress. My bet is he'll push for privatisation to get the job done.
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  #2503  
Old 22.01.2017, 15:51
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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I did hear of rioting during the inauguration, however and some of the rioters were suspected to be plants.
The antifa crowd were out in force. That's why it made me chuckle to read some Republicans' complaints about violent Democrats: no, sweetheart, these rioters hate all of you, wish a plague upon both your houses!

I don't approve of the destruction of private property, but I see the antifa crowd as the vegans of politics: not my type, but at least they're consistent.
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  #2504  
Old 22.01.2017, 15:52
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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It's pretty clear that change needs to happen from the bottom up. So the best thing is if people - men and women become involved in local government. In the US, the Democratic party needs new, fresh leadership. And a simple message.

Will it effect change? I don't know. But I wouldn't dismiss it, not yet anyway.
That is good to know, and very healthy. It is long overdue. I'm all for it.

Except I tuned it to a speech by an unkempt fat slob talking as if this was his movement, some celebrity film maker, and I'm thinking they must be kidding.

Some will try to claim this as their own movement, to support their political perspective andagenda. I can totally support womanhood, but if turns out to be some movement headed by some wacko tabloid celebrity, forget it, ridicule it and laugh it off.
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  #2505  
Old 22.01.2017, 15:53
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

I think Trump can say whatever about his IQ, I was not impressed by GWB and his speeches and orating skills. Clinton did not impress me by him being a fan of other oral skills. Token posers do not feed any trust in voters, either.

I do not think rhetorics competences are something I would judge my leader by. I think people who judge by superfitial outside markers (tweets are nothing but) are missing the point, no matter how spoilt I got as a citizen of a country lead by a philosopher and a scenarist/writer. Even he did not get voted for orating skills or opining.

Presidents get voted by the amount of trust and authenticity. I actually think DT did not have an on par opponent in that and that is why he won. Quiet and sensible camaradierie marches as others put it (what jackass burns a limo to make their statement, btw) will not change that but might influence DT in the way he sways his politics. Not sure how positively. "Know your enemy", et all. I would not let my enemy know his enemy so easily, tbh, why?

Now - the protests were a bit pretentious and not ready to "know their enemy". Smart people are probably quiet and observing right now. But that is just my own experience, us "students" overturning the crappy regime through velvet revolution. It was not loud and threateing posturing nor comical pink hat wearing. Westerners' egos are too big.

If it takes DT to humble the loud mob enough to constructively listen, so be it.

Worrying about his mob and posturing (even if it is silly - it is open and out there) is just a part of the big problem people might not see at the mo.
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Old 22.01.2017, 15:54
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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So much all of this.

I didn't hear of violence or destruction during the march, although it is difficult to imagine nothing with so many events and so many people. I did hear of rioting during the inauguration, however and some of the rioters were suspected to be plants.
Ah, that makes more sense. I think I mixed up the images of the rioters (during the inauguration) and mentally crossed them over in my mind with "protest marches".

I was just reading a thread on reddit about people's takes on the marches that they took part of. It really is/was an amazingly positive spectacle.

reddit link
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Old 22.01.2017, 15:56
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Westerners' egos are too big.
Define "Westerners".
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Old 22.01.2017, 16:00
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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The major problem is that he can "pick and choose"
Not really, when it comes to the job, he has to get congress on board and I have a feeling he could get his wings clipped. Case in point: money. All his big domestic ideas need money, and where is it going to come from? Remains to be seen how this will play out.

Failure to carry out public duties/appearances and obligations will bring about more criticism.. protestors, the media will continue to pile on the pressure and we know how he emotionally reacts when people are critical of him.
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  #2509  
Old 22.01.2017, 16:09
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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That is good to know, and very healthy. It is long overdue. I'm all for it.

Except I tuned it to a speech by an unkempt fat slob talking as if this was his movement, some celebrity film maker, and I'm thinking they must be kidding.

Some will try to claim this as their own movement, to support their political perspective andagenda. I can totally support womanhood, but if turns out to be some movement headed by some wacko tabloid celebrity, forget it, ridicule it and laugh it off.
Michael Moore. He's no more absurd looking than Kellyanne Conway. Some of his stuff is good, not everything.

How magnanimous of you to support womanhood, as if it matters.

I found this pretty funny

http://time.com/4642349/stephen-colb...inauguaration/
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Old 22.01.2017, 16:18
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

I support people who support womanhood. What I see out there, though, feels more like supporting their own selfimportance. I might be naieve but see the new wave of criticism as a criticism to target entitlement. Why should people automatically cheer to entitlement.

Respect does not come from wearing a pussyhat and engaging in vandalism.

It is like what Shapiro said - the unconstructive vandalizing hippies in Berkeley decades ago.

I gotta go cook, study and celebrate our offline life, lol. Power to good constructive people, I say.
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  #2511  
Old 22.01.2017, 16:26
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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I think Trump can say whatever about his IQ, I was not impressed by GWB and his speeches and orating skills. Clinton did not impress me by him being a fan of other oral skills. Token posers do not feed any trust in voters, either.

I do not think rhetorics competences are something I would judge my leader by. I think people who judge by superfitial outside markers (tweets are nothing but) are missing the point, no matter how spoilt I got as a citizen of a country lead by a philosopher and a scenarist/writer. Even he did not get voted for orating skills or opining.

Presidents get voted by the amount of trust and authenticity. I actually think DT did not have an on par opponent in that and that is why he won. Quiet and sensible camaradierie marches as others put it (what jackass burns a limo to make their statement, btw) will not change that but might influence DT in the way he sways his politics. Not sure how positively. "Know your enemy", et all. I would not let my enemy know his enemy so easily, tbh, why?

Now - the protests were a bit pretentious and not ready to "know their enemy". Smart people are probably quiet and observing right now. But that is just my own experience, us "students" overturning the crappy regime through velvet revolution. It was not loud and threateing posturing nor comical pink hat wearing. Westerners' egos are too big.

If it takes DT to humble the loud mob enough to constructively listen, so be it.

Worrying about his mob and posturing (even if it is silly - it is open and out there) is just a part of the big problem people might not see at the mo.
Wait and see is a good strategy.
But
people are impatient and so we react to the few actual crumbs we are allowed to see
  • erratic speeches
  • inane tweets
  • press conferences denying reality

It occurs to me that Trump is very good at reacting to his audience and tailoring his speeches on the fly. But when he is speaking to a camera or a large and distant audience then he does not get the feedback he needs and so becomes uncertain?

Anyway time will tell
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Old 22.01.2017, 16:32
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Michael Moore. He's no more absurd looking than Kellyanne Conway. Some of his stuff is good, not everything.

How magnanimous of you to support womanhood, as if it matters.
Except Kellyanne now speaks for the US, and Michael Moore speaks for whom?


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Failure to carry out public duties/appearances and obligations will bring about more criticism.. protestors, the media will continue to pile on the pressure and we know how he emotionally reacts when people are critical of him.
I support more careful scrutiny of Trump. But it really should be on real issues. The outcry on petty issues just diminish criticism in the long run, and it might truly be needed down the road.
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Old 22.01.2017, 16:38
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Case in point: money. All his big domestic ideas need money, and where is it going to come from? Remains to be seen how this will play out.
Privatisation.
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  #2514  
Old 22.01.2017, 16:40
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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I support more careful scrutiny of Trump. But it really should be on real issues. The outcry on petty issues just diminish criticism in the long run, and it might truly be needed down the road.
But.. if he can't handle criticism, no matter how light and trivial, how on earth will he handle congress when they begin to criticize his domestic ideas and fail to support and/or allow him access to the money he needs to carry out his plans.. what then?

Quite worrying, no?
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Old 22.01.2017, 16:43
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Except Kellyanne now speaks for the US, and Michael Moore speaks for whom?

I support more careful scrutiny of Trump. But it really should be on real issues. The outcry on petty issues just diminish criticism in the long run, and it might truly be needed down the road.
Kellyanne speaks for Trump, not the US. Her offical title is Consultant. Moore speaks for himself.

You are correct about real issues, though. Trump and his cabinet require scrutiny.

I'm only human, however, and some of the outrageousness is too distracting. Must toughen up.

How funny though, if Trump proves to be the biggest snowflake of them all!
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Old 22.01.2017, 16:49
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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But.. if he can't handle criticism, no matter how light and trivial, how on earth will he handle congress when they begin to criticize his domestic ideas and fail to support and/or allow him access to the money he needs to carry out his plans.. what then?

Quite worrying, no?
Its true that there is a significant attack on his brand, and apparently feels compelled about protecting his brand. They are verbal squabbles about inconsequential things. Its like an argument with a 12 year old.

Its putting way too much value on that Trump brand, by both sides. The attack and defence of it.

At the end of the day, the barking stops, he does what he's suppose to do, such as honour Obama, Bill and Hillary Clinton for their service. When he truly does the wrong thing, that is the time to come down on him hard.
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Old 22.01.2017, 16:51
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Wait and see is a good strategy.
But
people are impatient and so we react to the few actual crumbs we are allowed to see
  • erratic speeches
  • inane tweets
  • press conferences denying reality

It occurs to me that Trump is very good at reacting to his audience and tailoring his speeches on the fly. But when he is speaking to a camera or a large and distant audience then he does not get the feedback he needs and so becomes uncertain?

Anyway time will tell
Yep. Now after more than 20years of teaching it is safe to say, 90% of people speak publicly quite poorly, when put on the spot. Who was it that had that wtf moment at NYE when her sound tech did not work - M. Carrey? Even pros mess up, but that is something to train.

DT probably will be told or was already to train, but I think people will gobble up his "authentic" flaws, anyways.

He seems to be well aware of social priming, smartly. Mobs are easily manipulated by anything seemingly "haphasard", data re-entry, crossmodality, stuff that seems like something they would say themselves, etc. Potent salespitch.

It will be a good fight for everybody, to keep somewhat unbiased opinion and real info access. As per definitions of these terms, fill in at your free will. Freedom rocks. Semantics belongs to users.

I do not believe in training in persuasive orating, anyways, the way it is done formally, to persuade and gain - by kitch metaphors, fossile scripts, trickery and acting. But - one undeniable advantage is that it makes language users allert and aware of anyone trying to win them over. I don't blame media, again, I blame users giving up their own discerning skills and expecting too little of medias. The customers buy it, it is expensive and the content is zero, aside of entertainment and other instant gratification. So - why not buy other shortcuts that do not demand too much. Pretty clever orange prophets. Or pussyhat marching or blogging about how hipsters got stopped on the borders coz the cops feared incivilities.
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Old 22.01.2017, 16:54
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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I support people who support womanhood. What I see out there, though, feels more like supporting their own selfimportance. I might be naieve but see the new wave of criticism as a criticism to target entitlement. Why should people automatically cheer to entitlement.

Respect does not come from wearing a pussyhat and engaging in vandalism.

It is like what Shapiro said - the unconstructive vandalizing hippies in Berkeley decades ago.

I gotta go cook, study and celebrate our offline life, lol. Power to good constructive people, I say.
"Deserved" ≠"entitled"

Too many people these days think they are the same thing. People are not entitled to be treated in any particular way but in terms of respect and equality, these are things that the general population deserves. THIS is what the demonstrations are for.

Wearing a common hat or whatever they choose is basically irrelevant but it grabs the headlines and creates an identity to the protest, which drums up publicity.

These protests were, on the whole, peaceful and whether or not the isolated incidents of rioting were examples of violent protest or planted troublemakers matters not.

Detractors will always focus on such isolated rioting, as well as use inflammatory language or somehow trivialise the issue (how many times have I read "snowflakes" "luvvies" "liberals" in the press today? ).

Either way, as an incoming president who has global protests going on in his name, including over 2 million people on his doorstep ONE DAY after he takes up office should have his alarm bells ringing. How he deals with it will be very telling.

Obama must be laughing down his sleeve. I would be.
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Old 22.01.2017, 17:05
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Its true that there is a significant attack on his brand, and apparently feels compelled about protecting his brand. They are verbal squabbles about inconsequential things. Its like an argument with a 12 year old.

Its putting way too much value on that Trump brand, by both sides. The attack and defence of it.

At the end of the day, the barking stops, he does what he's suppose to do, such as honour Obama, Bill and Hillary Clinton for their service. When he truly does the wrong thing, that is the time to come down on him hard.
..and that is my point: when/if it happens, how will he cope emotionally? He is not a professional politician and I don't think he knows how to smooth the way with congress, charm the in-house people. He can't work in a vacuum and can't tweet his problems away. He doesn't strike me as a man who can emotionally cope without solid control.

The lack of scrutiny, which has been the norm up to now, will become a huge issue.
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Old 22.01.2017, 17:06
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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May not matter too much how long Trump stays in. He already exposed the Washington DC establishment's corruption, and established the America First doctrine. There is no easy way for the establishment to go back to their old ways.

It may even be better for Trump to have a shorter tenure, and the doctrine carried out after him. He's already accomplished what he needs to for now. It can't be undone.

He can quit now while he's ahead, but he has a lot more coming down the pipeline.
How short is your memory?!?
Two posts.


if even that
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