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View Poll Results: Will Trump be a good President?
Yes 71 27.41%
No 188 72.59%
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  #2781  
Old 25.01.2017, 12:47
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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All the best moral government build walls, the best walls, moral walls
The drug violence in Mexico is seeping more and more into the US.

So hell yeah, "Build That Wall"!
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  #2782  
Old 25.01.2017, 12:47
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Originally Posted by Phos View Post
To be clear, the Executive Order Trump signed on Monday is to bar any US funding for any international organisations that perform or prescribe abortions.

There have been organisations that have received US funding, and performed or prescribed abortions. This is no longer the case.
Providing information about a possible abortion is not prescribing one. It's merely another option that any woman should be able to get advice about - without the organisation in question being threatened with losing funding if they mention the "A" word.

This is more a Repulican v Democrat issue. The Republicans brought in the Mexico City policy, the Democrats rescind it whenever they hold office.
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  #2783  
Old 25.01.2017, 12:52
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Originally Posted by Medea Fleecestealer View Post
Providing information about a possible abortion is not prescribing one. It's merely another option that any woman should be able to get advice about - without the organisation in question being threatened with losing funding if they mention the "A" word.

This is more a Repulican v Democrat issue. The Republicans brought in the Mexico City policy, the Democrats rescind it whenever they hold office.
Yes, its a back and forth party thing.

One thing about Trump is that he is raising the bar for shrewdness in how the government is using taxpayer money. He'll be pinching pennies left and right. The US government will finally start running like a responsible business. The politicians have no sense of fiscal responsibility, as they don't earn the money they spend. Businessmen will demand a better return on investments.

So I think grants of these types will be subject to the criteria of "America First". Does it align to its values, and what do we get in return for it?

On the abortion front, it is true, a lot of anti-abortionists apart from Trump will be pushing for more anti-abortion measures.
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  #2784  
Old 25.01.2017, 12:58
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Originally Posted by Phos View Post
On the abortion front, it is true, a lot of anti-abortionists apart from Trump will be pushing for more anti-abortion measures.
Trump has said on more than one occasion that he is against abortion.

Trump doesn't see abortion from any point of view other than some god-bothering way. He doesn't for a second consider that the vast majority of women going for an abortion do it under incredible stress, trauma and fear.

I'm sure he and the goons he had stood behind him for that pathetic photo-call think that women just sleep around getting pregnant and use it as a birth control.

He's pitiful.
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  #2785  
Old 25.01.2017, 12:59
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Originally Posted by Phos View Post
Yes, its a back and forth party thing.

One thing about Trump is that he is raising the bar for shrewdness in how the government is using taxpayer money. He'll be pinching pennies left and right. The US government will finally start running like a responsible business. The politicians have no sense of fiscal responsibility, as they don't earn the money they spend. Businessmen will demand a better return on investments.
Why would you run a government like a business? What's so great about that? Businesses extract as much money as possible while giving the least that can possibly be delivered.
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  #2786  
Old 25.01.2017, 13:00
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Originally Posted by Medea Fleecestealer View Post
...Trump has, once again because this isn't the first time a President has done this...,.


...But this is not the first time a foreign funding ban has been put in place. Republican President Ronald Reagan first created the Mexico City Policy in 1984 introducing the ban, only for the Democrats to later rescind it under the Clinton administration.

In 2009, Barack Obama ended the policy, which had been reinstated under President George Bush's tenure."

Not defending Trump here, but some of the actions the new president is taking is nothing more than protocol. The policy above swings to the other direction every time a party change occurs in the WH. Don't blame Trump. Blame the Republicans. It would have happened if it was Bush or Cruz or whomever.

Earlier, he was castigated for "summarily cancelling" all Ambassador appointments, yet this is standard process with any new administration. One of the news outlets, after launching the click bait headline, later in the article commented that this really isn't a concern as we have long term State Dept. leadership in the #2 spot - they run the show anyway. WTF! That's journalism? How about a piece on how the change actually occurs at a major US embassy? nah - not incendiary enough.

Even some of the more directed actions are meaningless. The Asian trade pact was stalled in Congress so nothing was really taken away. The Dakota pipeline will get routed somewhere else - farther away from the Indian lands if need be (it was never going to cross Indian land in the first place: http://time.com/4548566/dakota-acces...ng-rock-sioux/).

My point being is this is just more fake news to fuel the ignorant masses that can't think for themselves (and there are plenty on both sides of the equation). It's all smoke and mirrors.
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  #2787  
Old 25.01.2017, 13:01
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Originally Posted by Sandgrounder View Post
Trump has said on more than one occasion that he is against abortion.

Trump doesn't see abortion from any point of view other than some god-bothering way. He doesn't for a second consider that the vast majority of women going for an abortion do it under incredible stress, trauma and fear.

I'm sure he and the goons he had stood behind him for that pathetic photo-call think that women just sleep around getting pregnant and use it as a birth control.

He's pitiful.
Not sure it is Trump himself. I think he's just taking a political position. But a vast number of people in the US and around the world are offended by the idea of abortions for moral reasons.
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  #2788  
Old 25.01.2017, 13:03
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Originally Posted by cyrus View Post
Why would you run a government like a business? What's so great about that? Businesses extract as much money as possible while giving the least that can possibly be delivered.
Effectiveness, efficiency and management of finances and resources.
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  #2789  
Old 25.01.2017, 13:08
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

I've said this before:

the entire abortion debate is smoke and mirrors to deflect from other issues. Furthermore its a gift that keeps on giving as any measure one side push through, the other side can dismantle when the balance of power shifts. But because a lot of people do feel very deeply and strongly about abortion, whether in favour or against, the cynics in the political machine can channel that anger and use it to get elected and to do the other stuff they want to do.

We saw this clearly when at the recent women's march, pro-life feminists were told they weren't welcome. You can't march with us just because you agree with us on some issues. If you're not part of our machine you're not one of us.

I've experienced similar conflicts myself. I do actually agree with the left on some issues. For example environmental ones or about public transporttaion. I even attended protests on these topics. But then the speaker then typically waffled on about broader leftist themes. Once I went up to him afterwards and said I didn't agree wiuth that as I had been informed this protest was about this one issue and I didn't like my voice of protest being used as a platform for your other causes, which i disagree with. I said that mayve other people like me might also join in if only he could stay on topic. He then got quite irate and effectively said i wasn't welcome at his march. For such people, the topic at hand is often just a tool or stepping stone to bolster their electoral performance.
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  #2790  
Old 25.01.2017, 13:09
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Originally Posted by VFR on top View Post
My point being is this is just more fake news to fuel the ignorant masses that can't think for themselves (and there are plenty on both sides of the equation). It's all smoke and mirrors.
This is the key here. Americans are now waking up and paying attention. We've been stuck here in a dichotomy of Dems vs. Reps, as if there are two sides to the US. There are 320 million people. There are 320 million sides to this.

The sooner we get people to start using their brains for critical thinking, the better off we will be. Its not a bad idea to start with the premise that all news is fake news. You folks start with what you'd like, I'll start with CNN.
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  #2791  
Old 25.01.2017, 13:11
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Originally Posted by Phos View Post
Yes, its a back and forth party thing.

One thing about Trump is that he is raising the bar for shrewdness in how the government is using taxpayer money. He'll be pinching pennies left and right. The US government will finally start running like a responsible business. The politicians have no sense of fiscal responsibility, as they don't earn the money they spend. Businessmen will demand a better return on investments.

So I think grants of these types will be subject to the criteria of "America First". Does it align to its values, and what do we get in return for it?

On the abortion front, it is true, a lot of anti-abortionists apart from Trump will be pushing for more anti-abortion measures.
This about a man who purposely bankrupted 6 of his companies.

"Trump has never filed for personal bankruptcy, but his hotel and casino businesses have been declared bankrupt six times between 1991 and 2009 in order to re-negotiate debt with banks and owners of stock and bonds.[91][92] Because the businesses used Chapter 11 bankruptcy, they were allowed to operate while negotiations proceeded. Trump was quoted by Newsweek in 2011 saying, "I do play with the bankruptcy laws – they're very good for me" as a tool for trimming debt.[93][94]

The six bankruptcies were the result of over-leveraged hotel and casino businesses in Atlantic City and New York: Trump Taj Mahal (1991), Trump Plaza Hotel and Casino (1992), Plaza Hotel (1992), Trump Castle Hotel and Casino (1992), Trump Hotels and Casino Resorts (2004), and Trump Entertainment Resorts (2009).[95][96][97] Trump said, "I've used the laws of this country to pare debt ... We'll have the company. We'll throw it into a chapter. We'll negotiate with the banks. We'll make a fantastic deal. You know, it's like on The Apprentice. It's not personal. It's just business."[61]

A 2016 analysis of Trump's business career by The Economist concluded that his "... performance [from 1985 to 2016] has been mediocre compared with the stock market and property in New York", noting both his successes and bankruptcies.[98] A subsequent analysis by The Washington Post concluded that "Trump is a mix of braggadocio, business failures, and real success."[99]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Trump#Bankruptcies

I suspect the "real success" is the smallest part of the trio.

The US is already massively over-leveraged with debt. Trump trying to play his business games won't do anything to reduce that debt.
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  #2792  
Old 25.01.2017, 13:13
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Originally Posted by amogles View Post
We saw this clearly when at the recent women's march, pro-life feminists were told they weren't welcome. You can't march with us just because you agree with us on some issues. If you're not part of our machine you're not one of us.
They were marching for womens rights, access to abortion is one of those rights.
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  #2793  
Old 25.01.2017, 13:16
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Originally Posted by Medea Fleecestealer View Post
I suspect the "real success" is the smallest part of the trio.

The US is already massively over-leveraged with debt. Trump trying to play his business games won't do anything to reduce that debt.
You are right about the debt, but it isn't Trump who built that up. That debt was built up by people who had no sense nor skills of how to make money. They only know how to spend money.

Furthermore, these same people have very little skills in building things. Most of their building projects are notorious for humonguous cost over-runs.

Now Trump, actually, is a builder. He has in fact made a fortune building things. In regards to revitalizing the US, as much of an asshole he is, he really is the better man to carry it through than the politicians.



He has a proven track record, and many do believe he can rebuild US infrastructure.
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  #2794  
Old 25.01.2017, 13:18
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Originally Posted by Phos View Post
You are right about the debt, but it isn't Trump who built that up. That debt was built up by people who had no sense nor skills of how to make money. They only know how to spend money.

Furthermore, these same people have very little skills in building things. Most of their building projects are notorious for humonguous cost over-runs.

Now Trump, actually, is a builder. He has in fact made a fortune building things. In regards to revitalizing the US, as much of an asshole he is, he really is the better man to carry it through than the politicians.



He has a proven track record, and many do believe he can rebuild US infrastructure.
He has a proven track record of not building things and taking all the money. A picture of him in a hard hat doesn't make him a builder.
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  #2795  
Old 25.01.2017, 13:24
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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He has a proven track record of not building things and taking all the money. A picture of him in a hard hat doesn't make him a builder.
Trump comes from the same baby boomer generation as Woodstock and all that. By the 1970s, most of his generation gave up on political activism and resorted to self-indulgence. Many went into finance. He went into building.

You ought to get an idea of what New York City was like in 1970s. Rows and rows of dilapidated buildings. Trump became very adept at renovating dilapited buildings, using other people's money, and turning it around in value.

Trump pioneered gentrification. He's repeated the process over and over again. It did amazing things for New York City that Americans are quite aware of.

Trump is in the process of gentrifying the US. That is what he was voted in for.
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Old 25.01.2017, 13:25
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Originally Posted by Phos View Post
Yes, its a back and forth party thing.

One thing about Trump is that he is raising the bar for shrewdness in how the government is using taxpayer money. He'll be pinching pennies left and right. The US government will finally start running like a responsible business. The politicians have no sense of fiscal responsibility, as they don't earn the money they spend. Businessmen will demand a better return on investments.

So I think grants of these types will be subject to the criteria of "America First". Does it align to its values, and what do we get in return for it?

On the abortion front, it is true, a lot of anti-abortionists apart from Trump will be pushing for more anti-abortion measures.
"He'll be pinching pennies left and right." He will need every penny and much more to pay for that useless wall
He needs to look at the big numbers not pennies!

And bigger problems

Quote:
Donald Trump’s tax-cutting and spending plans could add another $6tn to the US public debt over the next 10 years, independent budget analysts have calculated, as the Congressional Budget Office warned the US’s current spending plans alone could trigger a financial crisis.
Source
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  #2797  
Old 25.01.2017, 13:25
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Originally Posted by Phos View Post
Not sure it is Trump himself. I think he's just taking a political position. But a vast number of people in the US and around the world are offended by the idea of abortions for moral reasons.
A vast number of people in the US and around the world are offended by the death penalty and gun ownership for moral reasons. Depends where your sensibilities are and who's got their ass in the White House, doesn't it..?
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Old 25.01.2017, 13:27
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Originally Posted by Sandgrounder View Post
A vast number of people in the US and around the world are offended by the death penalty and gun ownership for moral reasons. Depends where your sensibilities are and who's got their ass in the White House, doesn't it..?
Of course. In this case, the ass in the White House is against abortion. Such is life. So what's your point?
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Old 25.01.2017, 13:28
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Originally Posted by marton View Post
"He'll be pinching pennies left and right." He will need every penny and much more to pay for that useless wall
He needs to look at the big numbers not pennies!

And bigger problems
Well, between Trump and you. Or even the collective wisdom of EF. I'd say he's accomplished magnitudes more. I'll bet on him.
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Old 25.01.2017, 13:39
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Originally Posted by Phos View Post
The drug violence in Mexico is seeping more and more into the US.

So hell yeah, "Build That Wall"!
You really think that wall will keep out the smugglers? Most smuggled narcotics come through at the borders in with imports or from the sea via other channels. There are enough Mexicans legally in the US with connections to organized crime as there are other Latin, Black and White people too.

I fail to see how a wall will be an improvement on the Arizona desert for example, just a huge waste of American tax dollars for a political promise.

Tackling poverty and the need to resort to easy drug money and to drug addiction might be a better, although more liberal solution to the problem and far too sensible an idea for most Trump supporters to believe in.

The number of illegal border jumpers is probably quite slim, compared to other routes into the US. http://www.pewhispanic.org/2006/05/2...nt-population/
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