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View Poll Results: Will Trump be a good President?
Yes 61 27.35%
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  #3081  
Old 27.01.2017, 12:01
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Why would Trump consider the public opinion and sensitivities of people in Europe when dealing with real life problems of the people along the Mexican border?

He's not there to please people's sensibilities, I tell you. He's trying to solve real difficult problems.
Of course opinion in Europe doesn't matter to him in a direct sense.

But in this age of the Internet and of people moving around, opinions no longer stop at borders or at oceans the way they used to. Something I post on facbook may be read by somebody in the US and obviously that by itself won't spark any measurable change, but you cannot ignore crowd dynamics.

There is a reason that political developments in different countries show very obvious parallels.
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  #3082  
Old 27.01.2017, 12:01
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Broken promises are not lies, lies are when you deliberately set out to deceive. Clinton lying about lewinsky is another matter entirely, he was just human. Bush and Blair told a big ole porky pie, that has had ongoing repercussions ever since, but they still haven't proved that the bad information was deliberately bad,i.e. with real alterior motives behind them! The lies of Brexit and the Presidential election have been seriously bad, with the intention of decieving the masses for personal political gain and personal egos.
Although you are correct, there is a grey area of intention to deceive. No one is a mind reader, so one can never prove another's internal thoughts and intentions.
Generally speaking, if a politician commits to a promise eg. I WILL do xyz, and they don't follow through, many consider it as a lie.


If Trump doesn't build his wall---it will generally go down in history as a lie to the masses--although it also doesn't fall under your definition of a lie.
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  #3083  
Old 27.01.2017, 12:08
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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And so you think you can judge their situation better than them and Trump.

How does that make you any different from your imagined Trump?

You know, leftist elitists are proving to be a lot more numb to real people than the people they claim to counter. They compound it with the belief of their own righteousness. This is a retardation of that idealism. Its not going anywhere anymore in this track.
Am I a leftist elite now?

My bank manager will be pleased.

More seriously having lived next to and worked in Raploch in Stirling, one of the poorest and most deprived areas of the UK (if not Western Europe I would guess), I have some idea. Not an expert, but I daresay far more exposure than many of my liberal elite cohorts, and most of my illeberal elite critics.
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  #3084  
Old 27.01.2017, 12:08
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Of course opinion in Europe doesn't matter to him in a direct sense.

But in this age of the Internet and of people moving around, opinions no longer stop at borders or at oceans the way they used to. Something I post on facbook may be read by somebody in the US and obviously that by itself won't spark any measurable change, but you cannot ignore crowd dynamics.

There is a reason that political developments in different countries show very obvious parallels.
That is the cause of the political meltdown of the establishment we see today. The deluge of information is impossible for governments or anyone to manage. Compounded with everyone's ability to post their opinion.

Any government or politician that look like they are trying to appease all of it is either lying, or deluded and will fail through incompetency.

I don't think Democracy is about appeasement of any and all sentiments. Its impossible. It can only be done at the ballot box. And then put on a metal helmet, blinders if you have to, and carry your objective through. See how you did at the next election.
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Old 27.01.2017, 12:21
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Although you are correct, there is a grey area of intention to deceive. No one is a mind reader, so one can never prove another's internal thoughts and intentions.
Generally speaking, if a politician commits to a promise eg. I WILL do xyz, and they don't follow through, many consider it as a lie.


If Trump doesn't build his wall---it will generally go down in history as a lie to the masses--although it also doesn't fall under your definition of a lie.
Yup that would be a broken promise! A lie is a lie. For example denying he had met with Putin in the past.
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  #3086  
Old 27.01.2017, 12:21
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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More seriously having lived next to and worked in Raploch in Stirling, one of the poorest and most deprived areas of the UK (if not Western Europe I would guess), I have some idea. Not an expert, but I daresay far more exposure than many of my liberal elite cohorts, and most of my illeberal elite critics.
Were you finding mass graves across the border? Dozens of headless corpses of men, women and children regularly dumped on a sidewalk, hanging on lightposts and bridges?

The violence and evil in Mexico matches that of ISIS. Over 100,000 people have been killed in the last decade. Its seeping through to the US side. Any estimated $200M dollars flow through on a daily basis. There are networks of illegal criminals in the US that administer this flow.

That wall is not about racism. There is a good fight here worth fighting. We don't need to suffer the ignorance of fools in Europe to try to address this.
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  #3087  
Old 27.01.2017, 12:25
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Were you finding mass graves across the border? Dozens of headless corpses of men, women and children regularly dumped on a sidewalk, hanging on lightposts and bridges?

The violence and evil in Mexico matches that of ISIS. Over 100,000 people have been killed in the last decade. Its seeping through to the US side. Any estimated $200M dollars flow through on a daily basis. There are networks of illegal criminals in the US that administer this flow.

That wall is not about racism. There is a good fight here worth fighting. We don't need to suffer the ignorance of fools in Europe to try to address this.
This is the culmination of the war on drugs started by the Reagan administration perhaps ending that might help. It's a real problem in Mexico, but brutal organised crime has always been a problem in America. Don't see anyone threatening to kick out all the Italian or Irish? The wall is quite a symbolic thing Phos, more then functional, it's a vast waste of money and time, and distracts from the real issues.

Last edited by TobiasM; 27.01.2017 at 13:05.
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  #3088  
Old 27.01.2017, 12:25
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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That wall is not about racism. There is a good fight here worth fighting. We don't need to suffer the ignorance of fools in Europe to try to address this.
Maybe rashly dismissing anyone's opinion is ignorant folly. Why should anyone living near a successful and peaceful border be dismissed? Sounds to me like they're pretty experienced in getting it right...

Picking up tips and tricks from other drug-fuelled flashpoints in the world because somehow they understand your problems restricts their assistance and usefulness significantly.

Maybe it's a pride thing.
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  #3089  
Old 27.01.2017, 12:30
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Don't see anyone threatening to kick out all the Italian or Irish?
Trump is not calling for kicking out illegal immigrants who are doing the right things, and contributing to society. The focus here is on the criminal elements, and an orderly way for good immigrants to enter country.
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  #3090  
Old 27.01.2017, 12:39
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

Question for all the anti-Trumpers: Is the hysteria just your way of coming to terms with President Trump or do you intend to stay salty for the next 8 years?
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  #3091  
Old 27.01.2017, 12:42
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Question for all the anti-Trumpers: Is the hysteria just your way of coming to terms with President Trump or do you intend to stay salty for the next 8 years?
Question for the pro-Trumpers: why do you see discussion or even protest as hysteria?

This should help

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hysteria
hɪˈstɪərɪə
noun
1.
exaggerated or uncontrollable emotion or excitement.
"the anti-Semitic hysteria of the 1890s"
synonyms: frenzy, wildness, feverishness, irrationality; More
2.
an old-fashioned term for a psychological disorder characterized by conversion of psychological stress into physical symptoms (somatization) or a change in self-awareness (such as a fugue state or selective amnesia).
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protest
noun
ˈprəʊtɛst/
1.
a statement or action expressing disapproval of or objection to something.
"the British team lodged an official protest"
synonyms: objection, exception, complaint, disapproval, disagreement, opposition, challenge, dissent, demurral, remonstration, expostulation, fuss, outcry; More
2.
LAW
a written declaration, typically by a notary public, that a bill has been presented and payment or acceptance refused.
verb
prəˈtɛst/
1.
express an objection to what someone has said or done.
"before Muriel could protest, he had filled both glasses"
synonyms: express opposition, raise objections, object, make a protest, dissent, take issue, make/take a stand, put up a fight, kick, take exception, complain, express disapproval, disagree, express disagreement, demur, remonstrate, expostulate, make a fuss; More
2.
declare (something) firmly and emphatically in response to doubt or accusation.
"‘I'm not being coy!’ Lucy protested"
synonyms: insist on, claim, maintain, declare, announce, profess, proclaim, assert, affirm, argue, vow, avow, aver, pledge, swear, swear to, testify to; rareasseverate
"Richardson has always protested his innocence"
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Old 27.01.2017, 12:43
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Were you finding mass graves across the border? Dozens of headless corpses of men, women and children regularly dumped on a sidewalk, hanging on lightposts and bridges?

The violence and evil in Mexico matches that of ISIS. Over 100,000 people have been killed in the last decade. Its seeping through to the US side. Any estimated $200M dollars flow through on a daily basis. There are networks of illegal criminals in the US that administer this flow.

That wall is not about racism. There is a good fight here worth fighting. We don't need to suffer the ignorance of fools in Europe to try to address this.
" Any estimated $200M dollars flow through on a daily basis. " The US drug administration in their 2015 report have clearly stated that the drugs from Mexico pass through the existing border points.
This is a big business. Nobody is running across the desert with tons of drugs strapped to their backs.
The wall will not change anything.
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  #3093  
Old 27.01.2017, 12:50
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Question for the pro-Trumpers: why do you see discussion or even protest as hysteria?
It's the hyperbolic false equivalencies and the shrilly overreactions that do it for me
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Old 27.01.2017, 12:55
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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It's the hyperbolic false equivalencies and the shrilly overreactions that do it for me
So purely subjective stuff that pushes your buttons then.
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Old 27.01.2017, 12:56
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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It's the hyperbolic false equivalencies and the shrilly overreactions that do it for me
Yes, I agree. Trump's hyperbole and shrilly overreactions kind of make me wonder about his fitness too.
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Old 27.01.2017, 12:58
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Yes, I agree. Trump's hyperbole and shrilly overreactions kind of make me wonder about his fitness too.
The irony is delicious, isn't it?

I guess everyone has a place for hyperbole and shrillness which makes them feel fuzzy inside. Just has to be the right hyperbole delivered at the right degree of shrillness they want to hear.
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Old 27.01.2017, 12:58
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

One aspect of Trump that concerns me is his flirtation with vaccine conspiracies; from his anti-vaccine tweets, to his association with known anti-vaccine proponents such as Andrew Wakefield and, recently, Robert F. Kennedy. The threat of infectious diseases is truly of global concern.
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Old 27.01.2017, 13:03
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Yes, I agree. Trump's hyperbole and shrilly overreactions kind of make me wonder about his fitness too.
About President Trump, now that he's president, I don't mind saying this. I suspect he has ADHD. I know many successful people who have it. Its not necessarily debilitating or incapacitating. Its actually useful at the executive level. Just not always conducive for interpersonal communication. It requires more patience from those who work with them.

I don't think it is grounds for impeachment or anything.
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Old 27.01.2017, 13:06
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Yes, I agree. Trump's hyperbole and shrilly overreactions kind of make me wonder about his fitness too.
Well fingers crossed he makes it through - especially with Pence in the wings waiting to pounce. A man so unelectable he relied to Trump to get him into power.

Trump dances around like a monkey on crack because it sells. People "like" the fact he talks gibberish, that his statements are outlandish and from the Clarkson book of "How to offend people in all of the 198 relevant countries". They like the fact he's not the archetypal politician who reads the autocue, who sits calmly and who appear duplicitous.

Trump may well be the latter - his business dealings would suggest he is, but he approached the election as a sales contest - he told people what they wanted to hear - he researched and targeted those who could be easily swayed.

Hindsight may prove the left correct in their assumptions that Trump is a dangerous fool who has no place in politics OR it could show that the world has changed and being a crack-crazed monkey with a gun is the way forward.
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Old 27.01.2017, 13:13
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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About President Trump, now that he's president, I don't mind saying this. I suspect he has ADHD. I know many successful people who have it. Its not necessarily debilitating or incapacitating. Its actually useful at the executive level. Just not always conducive for interpersonal communication. It requires more patience from those who work with them.

I don't think it is grounds for impeachment or anything.
While I find it a bit churlish to diagnose someone with a complex condition purely by the way they appear on the telly...

There could be a host of conditions he is suffering under which kept his medical records under wraps during his campaign. Until he makes them available, I guess "suspecting him" of whatever ailment he is exhibiting is all we can do.
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