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#**3121** 27.01.2017, 13:23

	Quote:	JagWaugh
	That is exactly my point... If he doesn't effect change which makes more than 50% of the voting population happier during his first term, then there won't be a second term. The next POTUS will campaign on a "Trump got it wrong" platform, and his first act of office will be to repeal whatever Trump enacted (any of this sound familiar to you?).

That may be true for the fickle voter. Yet his opponent would have to come up with a better proposition. And if it is actually better, it is worth consideration.

So there are other areas of improvement apart from the dollar value. There are other intangibles such crime rates, greater opportunities for the disenfranchised communities, civility, etc.

The old adage of politics has been "It's the economy stupid" to date. I'm seeing something different here and in Europe. I'm seeing indications more along the lines of "It's the culture stupid".

JagWaugh · #**3122** 27.01.2017, 13:26

	Quote:	dodgyken
	Yes - its called 2 party politics!! You can only vote ALL conservative or ALL liberal. You can't vote (meaningfully) for some one who is economically conservative but socially liberal. You have to choose all or nothing. And that leads to yo-yo lawmaking.

Smart kid.... have a cigar!

#**3123** 27.01.2017, 13:27

	Quote:	Phos
	Were you finding mass graves across the border? Dozens of headless corpses of men, women and children regularly dumped on a sidewalk, hanging on lightposts and bridges? The violence and evil in Mexico matches that of ISIS. Over 100,000 people have been killed in the last decade. Its seeping through to the US side. Any estimated $200M dollars flow through on a daily basis. There are networks of illegal criminals in the US that administer this flow. That wall is not about racism. There is a good fight here worth fighting. We don't need to suffer the ignorance of fools in Europe to try to address this.

Donald Trump is the president of AMERICA. Let's keep examples relevant.

st2lemans · #**3124** 27.01.2017, 13:29

	Quote:	Sbrinz
	Now they cannot be bothered to check on the spelling of Theresa May, they used the Spanish name Teresa.

And Italian, and US English, etc.

Actually, I've never seen it spellt Theresa before.

Tom

Chemmie · #**3125** 27.01.2017, 13:31

	Quote:	st2lemans
	And Italian, and US English, etc. Actually, I've never seen it spellt Theresa before. Tom

My Spanish SO met an old family friend named Theresa---and after asking how to pronounce it 3 times, she later mentioned to me "I have never met a women named Chorizo before!"

manwithnoname · #**3126** 27.01.2017, 13:31

How does this work?

JagWaugh · #**3127** 27.01.2017, 13:33

	Quote:	Phos
	That may be true for the fickle voter. Yet his opponent would have to come up with a better proposition. And if it is actually better, it is worth consideration. So there are other areas of improvement apart from the dollar value. There are other intangibles such crime rates, greater opportunities for the disenfranchised communities, civility, etc. The old adage of politics has been "It's the economy stupid" to date. I'm seeing something different here and in Europe. I'm seeing indications more along the lines of "It's the culture stupid".

Without a third party, and only eedjits to vote for, "fickle" is hardly the right term.

Europe is different. You haven't noticed yet? What do you think might be one easily spotted difference. Take as much time as you want to think about it...

#**3128** 27.01.2017, 13:35

Other manchildren are now copying The Donald's alternative facts, José Mourinho at it after losing 2-1 last night.

“I think 18 matches unbeaten is amazing. We didn’t lose,” he said. “It was 1-1, 1-1. I only saw two goals. I saw [Paul] Pogba’s goal and their goal was fantastic goal, great action. Great cross, and the guy in far post coming, 1-1.”

#**3129** 27.01.2017, 13:36

	Quote:	JagWaugh
	Without a third party, and only eedjits to vote for, "fickle" is hardly the right term. Europe is different. You haven't noticed yet? What do you think might be one easily spotted difference. Take as much time as you want to think about it...

Cheese eating surrender monkeys?

dodgyken · #**3130** 27.01.2017, 13:43

	Quote:	Phos
	Cheese eating surrender monkeys?

I think you'll find the correct racial slur is garlic munching surrender monkeys

Urs Max · #**3131** 27.01.2017, 13:53

	Quote:	Phos
	Were you finding mass graves across the border? Dozens of headless corpses of men, women and children regularly dumped on a sidewalk, hanging on lightposts and bridges? The violence and evil in Mexico matches that of ISIS. Over 100,000 people have been killed in the last decade. Its seeping through to the US side. Any estimated $200M dollars flow through on a daily basis. There are networks of illegal criminals in the US that administer this flow. That wall is not about racism. There is a good fight here worth fighting. We don't need to suffer the ignorance of fools in Europe to try to address this.

95% of the drugs moving into the US (from the south probably) do so on water. That wall is bloody useless in the war on drugs.

Similar WRT to illegal immigrants, only half cross the border on foot outside of checkpoints. Assuming it's even to cover the full border, which will be next to impossible in Texas as most border land is privately owned.

Imposing taxes on imports from Mexico, if actually done, will reduce economic prospects, which means increased incentive to move north. What DT proposes may actually be counterproductive!

pilatus1 · #**3132** 27.01.2017, 13:55

	Quote:	Urs Max
	95% of the drugs moving into the US (from the south probably) do so on water. Your fu.cking wall is bloody useless in the war on drugs. Similar WRT to illegal immigrants, only half cross the border on foot outside of checkpoints.

It'll end up being a $30 billion white elephant in the desert.

#**3133** 27.01.2017, 14:01

	Quote:	pilatus1
	It'll end up being a $30 billion white elephant in the desert.

It needs to be supplemented with an orderly process for guest workers to enter through the doors. Why pay smugglers, cross deserts, swim rivers, dig tunnels and climb barb wire when they can register and drive through the checkpoint?

The idea is fine. Its time to modernize the southern border. Too many people dying trying to cross.

Chemmie · #**3134** 27.01.2017, 14:05

I can understand why many people disagree and are outraged with the increased spending on border security with Mexico.

I just feel that there was little to no comment when the Senate (including Clinton and Obama) voted in favor of it, or when Obama spent 600 million for essentially the same task and historically spend the most on the topic out of any previous President. Feels like many who argue against it are either just doing it because they don't like Trump, or the have a hostility against bricks and cement. Either way, in my opinion not really value political discussions.

amogles · #**3135** 27.01.2017, 14:05

	Quote:	pilatus1
	It'll end up being a $30 billion white elephant in the desert.

Do you have any idea how many tourists visit the Great wall of China every year? And how much money they spend?

Trump is only building a wall that will be even biglier and yooger and all that tourist money will come home.

marton · #**3136** 27.01.2017, 14:05

	Quote:	Phos
	It needs to be supplemented with an orderly process for guest workers to enter through the doors. Why pay smugglers, cross deserts, swim rivers, dig tunnels and climb barb wire when they can register and drive through the checkpoint? The idea is fine. Its time to modernize the southern border. Too many people dying trying to cross.

If they introduce such a process then what is a need for the wall?

MrVertigo · #**3137** 27.01.2017, 14:07

An EF member of this thread having a stopover in JFK.....

Source: BBC

pilatus1 · #**3138** 27.01.2017, 14:10

	Quote:	amogles
	Do you have any idea how many tourists visit the Great wall of China every year? And how much money they spend? Trump is only building a wall that will be even biglier and yooger and all that tourist money will come home.

He did promise that it would be beautiful

cyrus · #**3139** 27.01.2017, 14:27

Got personal data in the cloud?

https://techcrunch.com/2017/01/26/tr...us-data-flows/

Urs Max · #**3140** 27.01.2017, 14:28

	Quote:	dodgyken
	Yes - its called 2 party politics!! You can only vote ALL conservative or ALL liberal. You can't vote (meaningfully) for some one who is economically conservative but socially liberal. You have to choose all or nothing. And that leads to yo-yo lawmaking.

Only in the polarized political landscape the US are in today.

Up until the 60ies bipartisan cooperation and compromises led to a fairly steady course, separation between parties was very permeable. In the following 20-30 years cooperation virtually disappeared. By the nineties the US congress was as separated by party, to not call it torn, as it is today with virtually zero bipartisan work happening.