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View Poll Results: Will Trump be a good President?
Yes 71 27.41%
No 188 72.59%
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  #5821  
Old 14.03.2017, 09:48
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

The Congressional Budget Office has released it's review of Trumpcare (Ryancare, Swampcare, The UNaffordable Care Act - choose your moniker).

From the NYT:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/13/u...T.nav=top-news

It's not all bad news:

"But the analysis does show that under the Republican plan there would be winners — and losers. Under current law, in 2026, a single 21-year-old earning $26,500 with an insurance policy that costs $5,100 a year would get a tax credit of $3,400 and would have to pay $1,700 of the premium. Under the Republican bill, that person’s share of the cost would drop to $1,450."

This part is frightening:

"By contrast, a 64-year-old earning the same amount would fare much worse. That person’s $15,300 health plan would be offset by a $13,600 tax credit under current law, leaving the consumer responsible for $1,700. Under the Republican plan, health insurers would be free to charge older people more, raising that person’s premium to $19,500. But the tax credit would be only $4,900, and that person’s share of the premium would then be $14,600."


So a 64 year old earning 26K and change could end up paying more than half his or her income in health insurance premiums.

---

But more to the point, something I don't think those of you who are preaching bootstraps fully understand:


Health care prices in the US are absurd. An order of magnitude beyond what one would pay for the same treatment here. No matter how much of a responsible bootstrapper one is, the simple fact is that very few uninsured Americans can afford US health care prices. And even more tragic - many insured Americans can't afford health care either.

There are many factors, from the eye watering cost of malpractice insurance to the far too many administrative fingers in the pie, to the demand for 'best practice'. Those factors will not change anytime soon, there is too much invested in the system as it is (read: Lobbying) to see cost cuts effective enough to make a visit to the doctor, let alone surgery, affordable.

To give you an example of what an American faces:

When making a decision on where to have surgery (as the local hospital here does not have a good reputation) I checked out what it would cost me to have it done back in the US, where I have access to the best doctors and hospitals.

Cost in Switzerland: Ca CHF 20-25K, all but my franchise of 1500 and self pay 700 covered.

Cost in Chicago: Ca. 95-115K. If it complications arose costs could rise rapidly, possibly double.

That's quite a cost difference.

---

Canvassing my relatives who have insurance, to see what this surgery would cost a responsibly insured American:

My self employed brother has a deductible of 6000, plus a 20% co-pay without limit. (That's the cheapest plan he could find, with avery high monthly premium, by the way.) So he would pay 29K out of pocket for this surgery.

My sister, who has a 'cadillac' plan from her employer, still has a deductible of 3000, plus a 10% co-pay on the first 50K of costs. She would pay 8K out of pocket.

And of course anyone without insurance is... screwed.

Looking at the high fixed cost of insurance premiums plus the potential for very high out of pocket costs - even the most Randian of bootstrappers could struggle if hit with a second serious illness.

----

Sure, the system needs more accountability, more patient and provider responsibility. Yes we can talk all you like about healthier lifestyles, etc.; that is a factor in need and thus rising costs. But before such issues can even be discussed, let along brought into practice, the absurdity of the American health care costs base needs to be addressed seriously.

Last edited by meloncollie; 15.03.2017 at 10:06.
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  #5822  
Old 14.03.2017, 09:51
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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It is a great humanitarian idea. I aplaud to all sharing this virtuous plan, theoretically it sounds perfect. Free healthcare. Or almost. NHS should be an example, so many people are so happy with it, high quality care. I also lived in a system of free healthcare or almost - doctors didn't get paid but it is ok, my family survived on peanurs and we got new docs (Vietnam, Poland, Ukraine). And it is sustainable, because peoplw are relatively responsible beings, not wrighing on the system with neigence and unhealthy habits. Another inspirational thing is - negative birthrate which makes free healthcare possible in some way. Right?

It sounds good, I could feel good about it. I wouldn't, though. I cannot even if I wanted. I believe that in order to boost self care, preventative minds, smart responsible consumers - and quality of service, health needs to be treated as a comodity.
One POV!
One issue with health treated as a commodity is simply greed so leads to unnecessary treatments and operations.
Also medical people are seen as rich targets for lawsuits so their insurance against claims is high and in turn drives higher treatment costs.

Then you have the drift to higher paid roles so the humble GP is dying out as a breed in many countries, even here. This leads to GPs working on even well past retirement age or their vacancies taken by low cost foreigners (who mentioned Vietnam, Poland & Ukraine)?
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  #5823  
Old 14.03.2017, 10:40
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Probably is the only way to ensure there are any medical services available.

Sadly I fear this is true. Then, like education, it becomes a two-or-three tier system.


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One POV!
One issue with health treated as a commodity is simply greed so leads to unnecessary treatments and operations.
Also medical people are seen as rich targets for lawsuits so their insurance against claims is high and in turn drives higher treatment costs.

Then you have the drift to higher paid roles so the humble GP is dying out as a breed in many countries, even here. This leads to GPs working on even well past retirement age or their vacancies taken by low cost foreigners (who mentioned Vietnam, Poland & Ukraine)?
Exactly. The emphasis seems to be on batting you at different specialists instead of having, essentially, a one-stop shop. And it's very easy to say "come back in a few days if this treatment doesn't work" because they know it's an instant money generator.

Or, like my local service, essentially a co-op of around 9 GPs who all work around a 5-9 day fortnight to fit everyone in. You rarely see the same one twice but you see someone bloody quickly.

Last edited by RufusB; 14.03.2017 at 16:29. Reason: Little s.
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  #5824  
Old 14.03.2017, 13:33
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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There are many factors, from the eye watering cost of malpractice insurance to the far too many administrative fingers in the pie, to the demand for 'best practice'. Those factors will not change anytime soon, there is too much invested in the system as it is (read: Lobbying) to see cost cuts effective enough to make a visit to the doctor, let alone surgery, effective.
[..]
Sure, the system needs more accountability, more patient and provider responsibility. Yes we can talk all you like about healthier lifestyles, etc., that is a factor in need and thus rising costs. But before such issues can even be discussed, let along brought into practice, the absurdity of the American health care costs base needs to be addressed seriously.
In the US every player is in the game to maximise their own profits, I'm not aware of any ongoing price controls. The only participants with an interest in lower prices are the patients, who have the least power. Not even the insurers are on their side.

A healthier lifestyle leads to people living longer. The older people get the more costs they cause. Thus the healthier people live the higher the costs caused and the more expensive healthcare becomes. Obesity may be the exception to this rule as it causes many secondary diseases and ailments before it becomes lethal, not sure.
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  #5825  
Old 14.03.2017, 16:54
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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In East Germany they were educated, fed, had jobs, pension and healthcare. I wonder where it all went wrong?
No reason to go to these extremes

There are many layers between a pure free market economy and a pure communist economy - neither of which work, by the way, as history teaches us.

Even if total government spending did not increase by a single cent, I would like to see the government take a hard look at its categories, and shift spending in certain areas, mostly defense, to healthcare, education, and nutrition.

Based on the latest official data published in January 2017, for fiscal year 2016, total outlays were approximately USD 3,850 billion, of which defense, which is a discretionary spending category, was approx USD 584 billion. Approximately 15% of all money spent in any categories, give or take. Source: Congressional Budget Office.

Worldwide, I think, next up in military spending is China (assuming we can trust their statistics), which is approximately 1/4 of the US spending at roughly USD 145 billion, and every other country worldwide individually is below USD 100 billion.

So basically, the US is overspending in defense, and, I would argue, picking up the defense expenditure tab of other countries. But of course, the US budget deficit is due to healthcare spending, specifically the Affordable Care Act

Is this really necessary? That's all I'm saying. Incompetent policy making on the back of the American people and their health, and I'm not even mentioning the moral/ethical aspects and the utter and complete mess of the U.S. healthcare sector (which Meloncollie and Edot already did, superbly).
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  #5826  
Old 14.03.2017, 17:39
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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So basically, the US is overspending in defense, and, I would argue, picking up the defense expenditure tab of other countries. But of course, the US budget deficit is due to healthcare spending, specifically the Affordable Care Act

Is this really necessary? That's all I'm saying. Incompetent policy making on the back of the American people and their health
Healthcare is the big target here, but education, environment, drug and food safety...and probably down the road infrastructure. And so much more.

Stupid, incompetent, ridiculousness.

You're absolutely spot on with this.....the US is not the policeman of the world.
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  #5827  
Old 14.03.2017, 20:02
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

GIFs, GIFs and more GIFs

http://giphy.com/gifs/thedailyshow-xUPGcLKuGsvaK43kSQ
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  #5828  
Old 14.03.2017, 20:07
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

I think we have have misunderstood the question.


Will Trump be good at fulfilling the job of President?

The answer is yes of course.

Most are wrong.

Y E S ?
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  #5829  
Old 14.03.2017, 20:11
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

Incredible what people can achieve with these media manipulation software programs!
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  #5830  
Old 14.03.2017, 20:31
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

Nasty rumour going around that Trump plans to reprogram the drone rules to "attack his critics in the US".

You will note the use of "quotes" so the actual meaning is entirely different
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  #5831  
Old 14.03.2017, 20:48
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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The New York attorney general has accused Secretary of State Rex Tillerson of using the pseudonym "Wayne Tracker" to send emails related to climate change while serving as CEO of Exxon Mobil.

The office of Eric Schneiderman revealed the unorthodox arrangement in a letter sent to a New York state judge on Monday that also accused Exxon of failing to produce documents related to an investigation into whether the company misled investors over climate change.

The oil company confirmed that Tillerson had used the "Wayne Tracker" email while CEO.
Source

I am sure there is a perfectly innocent explanation
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  #5832  
Old 14.03.2017, 21:12
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Nasty rumour going around that Trump plans to reprogram the drone rules to "attack his critics in the US".

You will note the use of "quotes" so the actual meaning is entirely different
I'll make sure and paint a "giant middle finger" in bright colors on my roof so the drones can see it clearly. Note the use of "quotes".

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  #5833  
Old 15.03.2017, 07:31
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

Trump's 2005 tax return has been "leaked", showing in fact that Trump did indeed pay a lot of tax

Donald Trump tax: Leaked 2005 document reveals $38m bill
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  #5834  
Old 15.03.2017, 07:38
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

A 12 year old document. Would be more interesting to see the current one as I expect he's found a lot more tax dodges in those 12 years.
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  #5835  
Old 15.03.2017, 07:51
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Trump's 2005 tax return has been "leaked", showing in fact that Trump did indeed pay a lot of tax

Donald Trump tax: Leaked 2005 document reveals $38m bill
Two interesting points out of that.

1. Did he leak it himself to show he actually pays some tax sometimes?
2. 82% of the tax he paid was due to Alt-Min tax. Something he has pledged to abolish and without which he would have had an effective tax rate lower than someone earning about $ 30K.
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  #5836  
Old 15.03.2017, 07:52
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

How convenient the "leak" showed a year where he paid some tax. It's almost like it is the best document for Trump that could have been leaked...hmmmm.
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  #5837  
Old 15.03.2017, 08:00
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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1. Did he leak it himself to show he actually pays some tax sometimes?
Probably.
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  #5838  
Old 15.03.2017, 08:27
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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How convenient the "leak" showed a year where he paid some tax. It's almost like it is the best document for Trump that could have been leaked...hmmmm.
Also convenient that it appeared on the very day after Trump was told to produce evidence of wiretapping, which he did not do...
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  #5839  
Old 15.03.2017, 09:23
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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A 12 year old document. Would be more interesting to see the current one as I expect he's found a lot more tax dodges in those 12 years.
I would imagine the thought of people seeing those terrifies him.
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  #5840  
Old 15.03.2017, 09:44
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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A 12 year old document. Would be more interesting to see the current one as I expect he's found a lot more tax dodges in those 12 years.
It's not just that. If he released the documents for recent years (or even for 2017 once he has them) it would be much easier to demonstrate his conflicts of interest and worse.
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