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View Poll Results: Will Trump be a good President?
Yes 61 27.35%
No 162 72.65%
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  #6021  
Old 19.03.2017, 12:43
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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1. Why does the EU need an army?
2. Thank Christ the UK are leaving.
3. EU defence spending will still be a piss in the ocean when compared to the US.
It's awful for some. Simply put, Germany and France do not have, and never will, the same view on Russia and probably on a lot more issues, as the Eastern flank.
Enough with pseudo-"Union", we've seen it all. If a choice will have to be done, I really hope we'll choose Nato over EU.
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  #6022  
Old 19.03.2017, 13:58
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Watch the Press Conference between Trump and Merkel. Use it to practise your German but also evaluate what was actually said. In the race on how to be presidential, Merkel won by a mile. Seriously, Trump even had to mention fake news when taking a question from a German reporter.

https://www.welt.de/politik/ausland/...e-Schelte.html
I'd love to be a fly on the wall when she next meets other EU leaders and tells them- yes, now I know for sure- he is totally bonkers- and dangerous'- her face reaction when he said about having 'at least a thing in common' was priceless- you could see the Rappen drop.
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  #6023  
Old 19.03.2017, 16:36
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Well that's subjective.

I imagine someone who is a wanky leftist might think he's terrible.
On the other hand patriotic folks who want to put their country and people first and foremost might think he's doing a good job.
I wanted to come back to this. Left/right does not infer lack of patriotism/patriotism.

Many patriots lean left, many non patriots lean right. Many right leaning, patriotic folk also feel that Trump is not doing a good job.

this dichotomy of left/right is bullsh1t.
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  #6024  
Old 20.03.2017, 01:30
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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White House installs political aides at Cabinet agencies to monitor loyalty.
The unusual shadow government of political appointees, which reports to the White House deputy chief of staff for policy, is charged with making sure the secretaries and their staff members carry out President Trump’s agenda and stick to approved talking points
Source

I believe the Russians called them "political commissars"?
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  #6025  
Old 20.03.2017, 02:25
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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President Trump's job approval rating has dropped to a new low of 37 percent, according to the latest Gallup tracking poll.

Only 37 percent of respondents approve of the job the president is doing, compared to 58 percent who disapprove.
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A Fox News poll conducted earlier this month showed the president's job approval rating had dropped by 5 points since last month. According to that survey, 43 percent of voters approved of the job the president was doing compared to 51 percent who disapproved.
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Surprisingly poor results?
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  #6026  
Old 20.03.2017, 08:08
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?



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Old 20.03.2017, 11:45
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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I wanted to come back to this. Left/right does not infer lack of patriotism/patriotism.

Many patriots lean left, many non patriots lean right. Many right leaning, patriotic folk also feel that Trump is not doing a good job.

this dichotomy of left/right is bullsh1t.
Well, I agree with you insofar that one can be a patriot and fall anywhere on the political spectrum.

But I still believe that most leftists in general (not just in US either) don't tend be as patriotic as their right wing counterparts.

Here's an article discussing this idea which provides some interesting research:

'Seventy-two percent of steadfast conservatives said they often feel proud to be an American; only 40 percent of solid liberals said they do'

'52 percent of Republicans and 48 percent of conservatives called themselves extremely patriotic; only 20 percent of Democrats and 19 percent of liberals did'
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Old 20.03.2017, 11:58
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Well, I agree with you insofar that one can be a patriot and fall anywhere on the political spectrum.

But I still believe that most leftists in general (not just in US either) don't tend be as patriotic as their right wing counterparts.

Here's an article discussing this idea which provides some interesting research:

'Seventy-two percent of steadfast conservatives said they often feel proud to be an American; only 40 percent of solid liberals said they do'

'52 percent of Republicans and 48 percent of conservatives called themselves extremely patriotic; only 20 percent of Democrats and 19 percent of liberals did'
Two year old article quoting a 2010 Gallup poll.

The 2016 Gallup poll shows patriotism declining over all groups here

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The vast majority of U.S. adults indicate they are at least moderately proud to be Americans
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  #6029  
Old 20.03.2017, 11:59
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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'Seventy-two percent of steadfast conservatives said they often feel proud to be an American; only 40 percent of solid liberals said they do'

'52 percent of Republicans and 48 percent of conservatives called themselves extremely patriotic; only 20 percent of Democrats and 19 percent of liberals did'

"Patriot - a person who vigorously supports their country and is prepared to defend it against enemies or detractors."

I guess if you want a balanced view, it depends on how you interpret "patriot". If you don't agree with the direction your country is heading and the people leading it then you could view those people as "unpatriotic" and yourself as patriotic because they are behaving "un-American" and wrecking your homeland. That applies to whether you are left or right leaning.

I feel the same about the UK - the self-serving gobshites at the helm are doing their damnedest to ruin the nation and I see them as unpatriotic. Traditionally, they are Conservative and right wing, and therefore according to your definition; patriotic. But they are certainly not doing things, in my opinion, in the best interests of the future of the country.
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Old 20.03.2017, 12:00
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Well, I agree with you insofar that one can be a patriot and fall anywhere on the political spectrum.

But I still believe that most leftists in general (not just in US either) don't tend be as patriotic as their right wing counterparts.
Many (as in some, but a minority) left leaning people do still believe that a world government (or failing that, a pan-national government) of some form would be a good thing.

In conservative circles, you won't find much backing for the idea. hence it's natural that they tend to be more patriotic.
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Old 20.03.2017, 12:01
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

Maybe those differences in patriotism are based on the government they are experiencing? Democrats in the USA are very disappointed with the present government. But the left leaning Russians are extremely happy with Putin and his government.
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  #6032  
Old 20.03.2017, 12:03
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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"Patriot - a person who vigorously supports their country and is prepared to defend it against enemies or detractors."

I guess if you want a balanced view, it depends on how you interpret "patriot". If you don't agree with the direction your country is heading and the people leading it then you could view those people as "unpatriotic" and yourself as patriotic because they are behaving "un-American" and wrecking your homeland. That applies to whether you are left or right leaning.

I feel the same about the UK - the self-serving gobshites at the helm are doing their damnedest to ruin the nation and I see them as unpatriotic. Traditionally, they are Conservative and right wing, and therefore according to your definition; patriotic. But they are certainly not doing things, in my opinion, in the best interests of the future of the country.
I don't think you can equate "my governemt right or wrong" with patriotism. Patriotism is not sheepism.

Hey, even Stauffenberg (the one who tried to assasinate Hitller) is considered a German patriot
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  #6033  
Old 20.03.2017, 12:06
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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I don't think you can equate "my government right or wrong" with patriotism. Patriotism is not sheepism.

Hey, even Stauffenberg (the one who tried to assassinate Hitler) is considered a German patriot
No, and that's not what I said. Patriotism is vigorously wanting what is best for your own nation and defending it against anything which is harming it.

Are you saying that governments don't harm the interests and future of their own countries?
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Old 20.03.2017, 12:07
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Maybe those differences in patriotism are based on the government they are experiencing? Democrats in the USA are very disappointed with the present government. But the left leaning Russians are extremely happy with Putin and his government.
Remember when under the Obama administration, there was a petition for Texan independence. Now I would assume that a Texan who wants independence is a Texan patriot, not an American one.

At the time, Obama replied to that petition and wrote a letter explaining why Texan independence would not work and was not an option.

Today, with Trump in power, similar noises are coming out of California. Only its the left that is driving it.

Now just as a thought experiment. Suppose Trump takes Obamas letter and replaces the word Texas by California, would that convince them? Or do the validity of arguments change depending on whether or not you agree with them?
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Old 20.03.2017, 12:10
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Two year old article quoting a 2010 Gallup poll.

The 2016 Gallup poll shows patriotism declining over all groups here
From your link:

Political liberals (36%) join young adults as the least patriotic major subgroup today.

Republicans (68%), conservatives (61%) and those aged 50 to 64 (64%) are the major subgroups most likely to say they are extremely proud to be Americans
.

Cheers big ears
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Old 20.03.2017, 12:11
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Now just as a thought experiment. Suppose Trump takes Obama's letter and replaces the word Texas by California, would that convince them? Or do the validity of arguments change depending on whether or not you agree with them?
Validity of arguments change with evidence and context, don't they?
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Old 20.03.2017, 12:32
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Well, I agree with you insofar that one can be a patriot and fall anywhere on the political spectrum.

But I still believe that most leftists in general (not just in US either) don't tend be as patriotic as their right wing counterparts.

Here's an article discussing this idea which provides some interesting research:

'Seventy-two percent of steadfast conservatives said they often feel proud to be an American; only 40 percent of solid liberals said they do'

'52 percent of Republicans and 48 percent of conservatives called themselves extremely patriotic; only 20 percent of Democrats and 19 percent of liberals did'
This may help. When you say that more leftists seem to be not patriotic do you mean nationalists? Right-leaning people tend to value nationalism (this seems to have ended to culture eg extending freedoms eg against gay marriage) more than left-leaning people who tend to favour social systems or ideals which can cross national boundaries eg communism, socialism (more dramatic egos) or universal health care.

Beyond left and right you have authoritarism and liberalism (of course left and right are on a spectrum as are authoritatism and liberalism). So someone can be a left liberal or a right liberal (free market). The liberals on left and right will generally agree on freedom of speech and expanding individual liberties but disagree on government intervention on social programs where left liberals worry about systematic failures of poverty which limit access to these freedoms.

DJT is on a world of his own. He says he agrees with things that are generally considered on the left and next time, on the right. I don't think he is a political being (he's purely egotistical in my opinion) meaning that what he says depends on 1) his ego 2) his audience and 3) the relationship between 1) and 2). If he has no ego relationship with an issue he will go with what his audience thinks.
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Old 20.03.2017, 12:40
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Maybe those differences in patriotism are based on the government they are experiencing? Democrats in the USA are very disappointed with the present government. But the left leaning Russians are extremely happy with Putin and his government.
I'm not sure if you are saying/suggesting that Putin and Russia are communist? Is that what you mean? Russia is now an economic oligarchy (a Russian told me that she does not like Putin as he helps the rich (and himself) not the poor). It was never communist or socialist, more like state capitalism (in Russia you got rich if you were in the government).

Best to describe Putin as an authoritarian.
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Old 20.03.2017, 12:45
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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This may help. When you say that more leftists seem to be not patriotic do you mean nationalists? Right-leaning people tend to value nationalism (this seems to have ended to culture eg extending freedoms eg against gay marriage) more than left-leaning people who tend to favour social systems or ideals which can cross national boundaries eg communism, socialism (more dramatic egos) or universal health care.

Beyond left and right you have authoritarism and liberalism (of course left and right are on a spectrum as are authoritatism and liberalism). So someone can be a left liberal or a right liberal (free market). The liberals on left and right will generally agree on freedom of speech and expanding individual liberties but disagree on government intervention on social programs where left liberals worry about systematic failures of poverty which limit access to these freedoms.

DJT is on a world of his own. He says he agrees with things that are generally considered on the left and next time, on the right. I don't think he is a political being (he's purely egotistical in my opinion) meaning that what he says depends on 1) his ego 2) his audience and 3) the relationship between 1) and 2). If he has no ego relationship with an issue he will go with what his audience thinks.
Just to clarify - sorry I used double negatives. If you are right-leaning you tend to be more nationalistic (patriotism is a word I would say is more emotionally loaded). You will be more nationalistic however if you have both right-leaning and authoritarian-leaning.

I am on the left and liberal. I despise nationalism. To call me unpatriotic however is unfair because it suggests I would belittle, or seek to undermine my country's interests. This is ridiculous.
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  #6040  
Old 20.03.2017, 13:02
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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"Patriot - a person who vigorously supports their country and is prepared to defend it against enemies or detractors."

I guess if you want a balanced view, it depends on how you interpret "patriot". If you don't agree with the direction your country is heading and the people leading it then you could view those people as "unpatriotic" and yourself as patriotic because they are behaving "un-American" and wrecking your homeland. That applies to whether you are left or right leaning.

I feel the same about the UK - the self-serving gobshites at the helm are doing their damnedest to ruin the nation and I see them as unpatriotic. Traditionally, they are Conservative and right wing, and therefore according to your definition; patriotic. But they are certainly not doing things, in my opinion, in the best interests of the future of the country.
This brings to mind one of my favorite quotes, by Carl Schurz. In a debate in the Senate in 1872, one of his political opponents challenged his position with the patriotic aphorism 'My country, right or wrong': To which Schurz added what to me seems the very definition of patriotism:

"My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right."
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