Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Off-Topic > Off-Topic > International affairs/politics
View Poll Results: Will Trump be a good President?
Yes 71 27.41%
No 188 72.59%
Voters: 259. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #6021  
Old 19.03.2017, 11:43
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CH
Posts: 7,034
Groaned at 234 Times in 185 Posts
Thanked 9,095 Times in 4,865 Posts
greenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

Quote:
View Post
1. Why does the EU need an army?
2. Thank Christ the UK are leaving.
3. EU defence spending will still be a piss in the ocean when compared to the US.
It's awful for some. Simply put, Germany and France do not have, and never will, the same view on Russia and probably on a lot more issues, as the Eastern flank.
Enough with pseudo-"Union", we've seen it all. If a choice will have to be done, I really hope we'll choose Nato over EU.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank greenmount for this useful post:
  #6022  
Old 19.03.2017, 12:58
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Neuchatel
Posts: 21,768
Groaned at 503 Times in 380 Posts
Thanked 24,670 Times in 11,240 Posts
Odile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

Quote:
View Post
Watch the Press Conference between Trump and Merkel. Use it to practise your German but also evaluate what was actually said. In the race on how to be presidential, Merkel won by a mile. Seriously, Trump even had to mention fake news when taking a question from a German reporter.

https://www.welt.de/politik/ausland/...e-Schelte.html
I'd love to be a fly on the wall when she next meets other EU leaders and tells them- yes, now I know for sure- he is totally bonkers- and dangerous'- her face reaction when he said about having 'at least a thing in common' was priceless- you could see the Rappen drop.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Odile for this useful post:
  #6023  
Old 19.03.2017, 15:36
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Kt Zrh
Posts: 5,551
Groaned at 31 Times in 30 Posts
Thanked 8,263 Times in 3,560 Posts
edot has a reputation beyond reputeedot has a reputation beyond reputeedot has a reputation beyond reputeedot has a reputation beyond reputeedot has a reputation beyond reputeedot has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

Quote:
View Post
Well that's subjective.

I imagine someone who is a wanky leftist might think he's terrible.
On the other hand patriotic folks who want to put their country and people first and foremost might think he's doing a good job.
I wanted to come back to this. Left/right does not infer lack of patriotism/patriotism.

Many patriots lean left, many non patriots lean right. Many right leaning, patriotic folk also feel that Trump is not doing a good job.

this dichotomy of left/right is bullsh1t.
Reply With Quote
The following 17 users would like to thank edot for this useful post:
  #6024  
Old 20.03.2017, 00:30
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 9,001
Groaned at 300 Times in 259 Posts
Thanked 12,727 Times in 7,004 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

Quote:
White House installs political aides at Cabinet agencies to monitor loyalty.
The unusual shadow government of political appointees, which reports to the White House deputy chief of staff for policy, is charged with making sure the secretaries and their staff members carry out President Trump’s agenda and stick to approved talking points
Source

I believe the Russians called them "political commissars"?
Reply With Quote
  #6025  
Old 20.03.2017, 01:25
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 9,001
Groaned at 300 Times in 259 Posts
Thanked 12,727 Times in 7,004 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

Quote:
President Trump's job approval rating has dropped to a new low of 37 percent, according to the latest Gallup tracking poll.

Only 37 percent of respondents approve of the job the president is doing, compared to 58 percent who disapprove.
Quote:
A Fox News poll conducted earlier this month showed the president's job approval rating had dropped by 5 points since last month. According to that survey, 43 percent of voters approved of the job the president was doing compared to 51 percent who disapproved.
Source

Surprisingly poor results?
Reply With Quote
  #6026  
Old 20.03.2017, 07:08
Rob's Avatar
Rob Rob is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Baden AG
Posts: 451
Groaned at 8 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 1,207 Times in 475 Posts
Rob has a reputation beyond reputeRob has a reputation beyond reputeRob has a reputation beyond reputeRob has a reputation beyond reputeRob has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Will Trump be a Good President?



Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Rob for this useful post:
  #6027  
Old 20.03.2017, 10:45
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: -
Posts: 258
Groaned at 142 Times in 100 Posts
Thanked 2,085 Times in 996 Posts
kriss kross has earned some respectkriss kross has earned some respect
Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

Quote:
View Post
I wanted to come back to this. Left/right does not infer lack of patriotism/patriotism.

Many patriots lean left, many non patriots lean right. Many right leaning, patriotic folk also feel that Trump is not doing a good job.

this dichotomy of left/right is bullsh1t.
Well, I agree with you insofar that one can be a patriot and fall anywhere on the political spectrum.

But I still believe that most leftists in general (not just in US either) don't tend be as patriotic as their right wing counterparts.

Here's an article discussing this idea which provides some interesting research:

'Seventy-two percent of steadfast conservatives said they often feel proud to be an American; only 40 percent of solid liberals said they do'

'52 percent of Republicans and 48 percent of conservatives called themselves extremely patriotic; only 20 percent of Democrats and 19 percent of liberals did'
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank kriss kross for this useful post:
  #6028  
Old 20.03.2017, 10:58
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 9,001
Groaned at 300 Times in 259 Posts
Thanked 12,727 Times in 7,004 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

Quote:
View Post
Well, I agree with you insofar that one can be a patriot and fall anywhere on the political spectrum.

But I still believe that most leftists in general (not just in US either) don't tend be as patriotic as their right wing counterparts.

Here's an article discussing this idea which provides some interesting research:

'Seventy-two percent of steadfast conservatives said they often feel proud to be an American; only 40 percent of solid liberals said they do'

'52 percent of Republicans and 48 percent of conservatives called themselves extremely patriotic; only 20 percent of Democrats and 19 percent of liberals did'
Two year old article quoting a 2010 Gallup poll.

The 2016 Gallup poll shows patriotism declining over all groups here

Quote:
The vast majority of U.S. adults indicate they are at least moderately proud to be Americans
Reply With Quote
  #6029  
Old 20.03.2017, 10:59
Sandgrounder's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: ZH
Posts: 11,905
Groaned at 108 Times in 101 Posts
Thanked 20,861 Times in 8,035 Posts
Sandgrounder has a reputation beyond reputeSandgrounder has a reputation beyond reputeSandgrounder has a reputation beyond reputeSandgrounder has a reputation beyond reputeSandgrounder has a reputation beyond reputeSandgrounder has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

Quote:
View Post
'Seventy-two percent of steadfast conservatives said they often feel proud to be an American; only 40 percent of solid liberals said they do'

'52 percent of Republicans and 48 percent of conservatives called themselves extremely patriotic; only 20 percent of Democrats and 19 percent of liberals did'

"Patriot - a person who vigorously supports their country and is prepared to defend it against enemies or detractors."

I guess if you want a balanced view, it depends on how you interpret "patriot". If you don't agree with the direction your country is heading and the people leading it then you could view those people as "unpatriotic" and yourself as patriotic because they are behaving "un-American" and wrecking your homeland. That applies to whether you are left or right leaning.

I feel the same about the UK - the self-serving gobshites at the helm are doing their damnedest to ruin the nation and I see them as unpatriotic. Traditionally, they are Conservative and right wing, and therefore according to your definition; patriotic. But they are certainly not doing things, in my opinion, in the best interests of the future of the country.
Reply With Quote
The following 8 users would like to thank Sandgrounder for this useful post:
  #6030  
Old 20.03.2017, 11:00
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 9,759
Groaned at 197 Times in 168 Posts
Thanked 19,136 Times in 8,135 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

Quote:
View Post
Well, I agree with you insofar that one can be a patriot and fall anywhere on the political spectrum.

But I still believe that most leftists in general (not just in US either) don't tend be as patriotic as their right wing counterparts.
Many (as in some, but a minority) left leaning people do still believe that a world government (or failing that, a pan-national government) of some form would be a good thing.

In conservative circles, you won't find much backing for the idea. hence it's natural that they tend to be more patriotic.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank amogles for this useful post:
  #6031  
Old 20.03.2017, 11:01
Sbrinz's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Murten - Morat
Posts: 11,927
Groaned at 590 Times in 377 Posts
Thanked 11,548 Times in 5,941 Posts
Sbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

Maybe those differences in patriotism are based on the government they are experiencing? Democrats in the USA are very disappointed with the present government. But the left leaning Russians are extremely happy with Putin and his government.
Reply With Quote
  #6032  
Old 20.03.2017, 11:03
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 9,759
Groaned at 197 Times in 168 Posts
Thanked 19,136 Times in 8,135 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

Quote:
View Post
"Patriot - a person who vigorously supports their country and is prepared to defend it against enemies or detractors."

I guess if you want a balanced view, it depends on how you interpret "patriot". If you don't agree with the direction your country is heading and the people leading it then you could view those people as "unpatriotic" and yourself as patriotic because they are behaving "un-American" and wrecking your homeland. That applies to whether you are left or right leaning.

I feel the same about the UK - the self-serving gobshites at the helm are doing their damnedest to ruin the nation and I see them as unpatriotic. Traditionally, they are Conservative and right wing, and therefore according to your definition; patriotic. But they are certainly not doing things, in my opinion, in the best interests of the future of the country.
I don't think you can equate "my governemt right or wrong" with patriotism. Patriotism is not sheepism.

Hey, even Stauffenberg (the one who tried to assasinate Hitller) is considered a German patriot
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank amogles for this useful post:
  #6033  
Old 20.03.2017, 11:06
Sandgrounder's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: ZH
Posts: 11,905
Groaned at 108 Times in 101 Posts
Thanked 20,861 Times in 8,035 Posts
Sandgrounder has a reputation beyond reputeSandgrounder has a reputation beyond reputeSandgrounder has a reputation beyond reputeSandgrounder has a reputation beyond reputeSandgrounder has a reputation beyond reputeSandgrounder has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

Quote:
View Post
I don't think you can equate "my government right or wrong" with patriotism. Patriotism is not sheepism.

Hey, even Stauffenberg (the one who tried to assassinate Hitler) is considered a German patriot
No, and that's not what I said. Patriotism is vigorously wanting what is best for your own nation and defending it against anything which is harming it.

Are you saying that governments don't harm the interests and future of their own countries?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Sandgrounder for this useful post:
  #6034  
Old 20.03.2017, 11:07
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 9,759
Groaned at 197 Times in 168 Posts
Thanked 19,136 Times in 8,135 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

Quote:
View Post
Maybe those differences in patriotism are based on the government they are experiencing? Democrats in the USA are very disappointed with the present government. But the left leaning Russians are extremely happy with Putin and his government.
Remember when under the Obama administration, there was a petition for Texan independence. Now I would assume that a Texan who wants independence is a Texan patriot, not an American one.

At the time, Obama replied to that petition and wrote a letter explaining why Texan independence would not work and was not an option.

Today, with Trump in power, similar noises are coming out of California. Only its the left that is driving it.

Now just as a thought experiment. Suppose Trump takes Obamas letter and replaces the word Texas by California, would that convince them? Or do the validity of arguments change depending on whether or not you agree with them?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank amogles for this useful post:
  #6035  
Old 20.03.2017, 11:10
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: -
Posts: 258
Groaned at 142 Times in 100 Posts
Thanked 2,085 Times in 996 Posts
kriss kross has earned some respectkriss kross has earned some respect
Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

Quote:
View Post
Two year old article quoting a 2010 Gallup poll.

The 2016 Gallup poll shows patriotism declining over all groups here
From your link:

Political liberals (36%) join young adults as the least patriotic major subgroup today.

Republicans (68%), conservatives (61%) and those aged 50 to 64 (64%) are the major subgroups most likely to say they are extremely proud to be Americans
.

Cheers big ears
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank kriss kross for this useful post:
  #6036  
Old 20.03.2017, 11:11
Sandgrounder's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: ZH
Posts: 11,905
Groaned at 108 Times in 101 Posts
Thanked 20,861 Times in 8,035 Posts
Sandgrounder has a reputation beyond reputeSandgrounder has a reputation beyond reputeSandgrounder has a reputation beyond reputeSandgrounder has a reputation beyond reputeSandgrounder has a reputation beyond reputeSandgrounder has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

Quote:
View Post
Now just as a thought experiment. Suppose Trump takes Obama's letter and replaces the word Texas by California, would that convince them? Or do the validity of arguments change depending on whether or not you agree with them?
Validity of arguments change with evidence and context, don't they?
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Sandgrounder for this useful post:
  #6037  
Old 20.03.2017, 11:32
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Luzern
Posts: 0
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 27 Times in 11 Posts
Groves has made some interesting contributions
Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

Quote:
View Post
Well, I agree with you insofar that one can be a patriot and fall anywhere on the political spectrum.

But I still believe that most leftists in general (not just in US either) don't tend be as patriotic as their right wing counterparts.

Here's an article discussing this idea which provides some interesting research:

'Seventy-two percent of steadfast conservatives said they often feel proud to be an American; only 40 percent of solid liberals said they do'

'52 percent of Republicans and 48 percent of conservatives called themselves extremely patriotic; only 20 percent of Democrats and 19 percent of liberals did'
This may help. When you say that more leftists seem to be not patriotic do you mean nationalists? Right-leaning people tend to value nationalism (this seems to have ended to culture eg extending freedoms eg against gay marriage) more than left-leaning people who tend to favour social systems or ideals which can cross national boundaries eg communism, socialism (more dramatic egos) or universal health care.

Beyond left and right you have authoritarism and liberalism (of course left and right are on a spectrum as are authoritatism and liberalism). So someone can be a left liberal or a right liberal (free market). The liberals on left and right will generally agree on freedom of speech and expanding individual liberties but disagree on government intervention on social programs where left liberals worry about systematic failures of poverty which limit access to these freedoms.

DJT is on a world of his own. He says he agrees with things that are generally considered on the left and next time, on the right. I don't think he is a political being (he's purely egotistical in my opinion) meaning that what he says depends on 1) his ego 2) his audience and 3) the relationship between 1) and 2). If he has no ego relationship with an issue he will go with what his audience thinks.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Groves for this useful post:
  #6038  
Old 20.03.2017, 11:40
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Luzern
Posts: 0
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 27 Times in 11 Posts
Groves has made some interesting contributions
Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

Quote:
View Post
Maybe those differences in patriotism are based on the government they are experiencing? Democrats in the USA are very disappointed with the present government. But the left leaning Russians are extremely happy with Putin and his government.
I'm not sure if you are saying/suggesting that Putin and Russia are communist? Is that what you mean? Russia is now an economic oligarchy (a Russian told me that she does not like Putin as he helps the rich (and himself) not the poor). It was never communist or socialist, more like state capitalism (in Russia you got rich if you were in the government).

Best to describe Putin as an authoritarian.
Reply With Quote
  #6039  
Old 20.03.2017, 11:45
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Luzern
Posts: 0
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 27 Times in 11 Posts
Groves has made some interesting contributions
Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

Quote:
View Post
This may help. When you say that more leftists seem to be not patriotic do you mean nationalists? Right-leaning people tend to value nationalism (this seems to have ended to culture eg extending freedoms eg against gay marriage) more than left-leaning people who tend to favour social systems or ideals which can cross national boundaries eg communism, socialism (more dramatic egos) or universal health care.

Beyond left and right you have authoritarism and liberalism (of course left and right are on a spectrum as are authoritatism and liberalism). So someone can be a left liberal or a right liberal (free market). The liberals on left and right will generally agree on freedom of speech and expanding individual liberties but disagree on government intervention on social programs where left liberals worry about systematic failures of poverty which limit access to these freedoms.

DJT is on a world of his own. He says he agrees with things that are generally considered on the left and next time, on the right. I don't think he is a political being (he's purely egotistical in my opinion) meaning that what he says depends on 1) his ego 2) his audience and 3) the relationship between 1) and 2). If he has no ego relationship with an issue he will go with what his audience thinks.
Just to clarify - sorry I used double negatives. If you are right-leaning you tend to be more nationalistic (patriotism is a word I would say is more emotionally loaded). You will be more nationalistic however if you have both right-leaning and authoritarian-leaning.

I am on the left and liberal. I despise nationalism. To call me unpatriotic however is unfair because it suggests I would belittle, or seek to undermine my country's interests. This is ridiculous.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank Groves for this useful post:
  #6040  
Old 20.03.2017, 12:02
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: SZ
Posts: 9,260
Groaned at 22 Times in 21 Posts
Thanked 20,483 Times in 6,563 Posts
meloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

Quote:
View Post
"Patriot - a person who vigorously supports their country and is prepared to defend it against enemies or detractors."

I guess if you want a balanced view, it depends on how you interpret "patriot". If you don't agree with the direction your country is heading and the people leading it then you could view those people as "unpatriotic" and yourself as patriotic because they are behaving "un-American" and wrecking your homeland. That applies to whether you are left or right leaning.

I feel the same about the UK - the self-serving gobshites at the helm are doing their damnedest to ruin the nation and I see them as unpatriotic. Traditionally, they are Conservative and right wing, and therefore according to your definition; patriotic. But they are certainly not doing things, in my opinion, in the best interests of the future of the country.
This brings to mind one of my favorite quotes, by Carl Schurz. In a debate in the Senate in 1872, one of his political opponents challenged his position with the patriotic aphorism 'My country, right or wrong': To which Schurz added what to me seems the very definition of patriotism:

"My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right."
Reply With Quote
The following 8 users would like to thank meloncollie for this useful post:
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Will Hillary Clinton run for president again? PanFastic International affairs/politics 159 09.10.2018 02:31
Poll: Will Trump win the 2020 elections? k_and_e International affairs/politics 14 05.06.2018 22:06
A generic "will my salary be good enough" post Larsh Employment 51 12.12.2017 12:51
Will Trump be the next US President? Phil_MCR International affairs/politics 2618 14.11.2016 11:16
Shall I inform my employer that I will be self employed or be a owner of a company? Broth76 Business & entrepreneur 6 09.07.2012 16:59


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 04:21.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0