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View Poll Results: Will Trump be a good President?
Yes 71 27.41%
No 188 72.59%
Voters: 259. You may not vote on this poll

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  #6421  
Old 23.03.2017, 23:10
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MusicChick View Post
To understand how/why Trump won and what he is up against now, after the win, is very much Hillary conected. People who voted for her are unfortunately making his work difficult. Obstructing. To say, let's not bring Hillary to the thread, or keep related issues out of the thread (just because they don't include Trump's name but still refer to similar phenomenon), is unwise, in my opinion. Let's have people draw their own analogies..what danger does it pose, for a good debate?
Yeah they are pretending that Obama did everything unopposed... last time i heard Trump does not have his entire team because the democrats refuse to participate.
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  #6422  
Old 23.03.2017, 23:17
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Originally Posted by etefan02 View Post
Yeah they are pretending that Obama did everything unopposed...
Clearly that wasn't the case. The Republicans didn't get the moniker "party of no" by mistake. And it worked well for them, blocking many of Obama's pet projects and earning them majorities across the board in state legislatures, governor's offices, and the U.S. Congress. The Ds see that and think hey, why not? It worked for the Rs so why wouldn't it work for us?

The reason it won't work is that the Ds have lost touch with the average American voter, and until they figure out and reconnect, it's going to be more of the same.
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  #6423  
Old 23.03.2017, 23:17
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

You all are free to debate all you want about Hilary and Saudi Arabia, in this thread (which is about President Trump) or elsewhere, 100% your right.

I will just point out that, for the rest of us, who fall into one or more of these categories:
  1. U.S. American
  2. Connected to a U.S. American (marriage, family, work, etc.)
  3. Actually living in the United States
  4. Actually paying U.S. taxes

The consensus that I can gather from the discussion is that we care a lot more about the reality of what this Administration is doing/not doing and how it affects our daily lives, finances, health, and sanity, and what happens in our backyard.

Literal backyard, in my case.

But by all means, continue debating Hilary and Saudi Arabia - this topic is a bit like homeopathy: e.g. if it makes you feel good about yourselves, by all means carry on. But is it really useful at all?

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  #6424  
Old 23.03.2017, 23:18
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MusicChick View Post
To understand how/why Trump won and what he is up against now, after the win, is very much Hillary conected. People who voted for her are unfortunately making his work difficult. Obstructing. To say, let's not bring Hillary to the thread, or keep related issues out of the thread (just because they don't include Trump's name but still refer to similar phenomenon), is unwise, in my opinion. Let's have people draw their own analysis..what danger in it does it pose, for a good debate?
When I first joined EF, mods were very hot on people making off topic posts.

This thread is titled "Will Trump be a Good President?"

It is not titled "Why was Trump be elected?"

Trump's biggest issue today is with the Republican party who did not support the Obama repeal Bill. I assume these Republicans did not vote for Hillary?

Every President faces push back from the other Party, this is not new.

Demonising Hillary who has actually been very quiet since the vote does not actually take us forward.
Do you claim Hillary influenced Republicans to vote against Obamacare repeal? I assume not?

Making claims that Hillary influences journalists to be anti-Trump during flights in her non-existent private jet does not fall in my personal definition of good debate?

For me good debate includes;
  • Critical analysis, synthesis, rhetorical skill, and wit.
  • Focus on the opposing side’s position or argument.
  • Use logic to make your arguments.
  • Be certain of the validity of all external evidence presented for your arguments

So far we mostly see personal opinions supporting Trump without any links to any sources or any external evidence.
This is good debate?

It is clear the Obamacare repeal is a disaster.
Trump promised this so has to carry the responsibility; he failed to carry a sufficient majority of the Republicans with him.
He was arrogant and did not check beforehand he had the necessary support to deliver his promise?
How did Hillary compromise this?

He has the same problem with his "Muslim ban" that he did not obtain adequate legal support for his executive order to make it proof against legal counter claims!
How did Hillary compromise this?

Trump made some very appealing campaign promises
  • Health cover for everyone
  • Job restoration in the Rust Belt.

Please do not take the easy way out and just claim I am a Hillary supporter (which I am not); focus on the my position and/or arguments.
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  #6425  
Old 23.03.2017, 23:18
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

They can only make his work so difficult. Republicans have the majority across the board. What's making his job difficult is that he's shitty at his job. And despite the distrust that's trying to be directed at the media, very few people (except for the zealots) are buying it due to him being a compulsive liar, and the information actually being factual. Hillary herself has no direct relation to anything going on with Trump. The democrats do, and they are more than just Hillary.

I personally find the mentality funny. The Republicans complained that they couldn't do anything because they didn't have the majority and Democrats were making things worse. Then they won the House. Then they complained they couldn't do anything because the Democrats still controlled the Senate. Then they won the Senate, and were huge obstructionists in anything that wanted to get done, while simultaneous complaining that nothing was getting done because they didn't control the executive branch. Now, they have the presidency, house, and senate and they still can't get positive changes made, keep things under control, or deliver on the promises they made. And, of course, they're blaming the democrats.
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  #6426  
Old 23.03.2017, 23:20
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

That post was supposed to be in reply to:

Quote:
Originally Posted by MusicChick View Post
To understand how/why Trump won and what he is up against now, after the win, is very much Hillary conected. People who voted for her are unfortunately making his work difficult. Obstructing. To say, let's not bring Hillary to the thread, or keep related issues out of the thread (just because they don't include Trump's name but still refer to similar phenomenon), is unwise, in my opinion. Let's have people draw their own analogies..what danger does it pose, for a good debate?
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  #6427  
Old 23.03.2017, 23:22
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

This article contains a photo of the freedom caucus meeting at the white house with Mike Pence. The source is Pence's own twitter account.

Interesting photo, given the topic - whether services such as maternity and mammography were essential health care services worthy of inclusion in the bill.

The freedom caucus has no women. Is it appropriate for a group of men to determine essential health services for women?

http://www.vox.com/identities/2017/3...rnity-coverage

Edited to add: senator Roberts from Kansas joked that he sure didn't want to loose his mammogram coverage.
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/roberts-mammograms

Of course, men get breast cancer occassionally, so perhaps Senator Roberts might someday need a mammogram. Meh.

Last edited by edot; 23.03.2017 at 23:33.
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  #6428  
Old 23.03.2017, 23:39
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Originally Posted by etefan02 View Post
Yeah they are pretending that Obama did everything unopposed... last time i heard Trump does not have his entire team because the democrats refuse to participate.
Obama was facing a House and a Senate that was Republican controlled; so what is your understanding of unopposed?

Trump entire team?
The reason he does not have an entire team is that he has not nominated people?
"Some 1,100 political positions require Senate confirmation, and so far Trump has nominated just a handful. None of the deputy secretaries or undersecretaries at the Department of State have been named, for instance."

"On February 28, 2017, Trump announced he did not intend on filling many of the numerous governmental positions that were still vacant, as he considered them unnecessary.
According to CNN on February 25, nearly 2,000 vacant governmental positions existed."
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  #6429  
Old 23.03.2017, 23:49
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Originally Posted by marton View Post

"On February 28, 2017, Trump announced he did not intend on filling many of the numerous governmental positions that were still vacant, as he considered them unnecessary.
Ivanka and Jared Kushner to the rescue!
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Old 23.03.2017, 23:51
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Originally Posted by gaburko View Post
Ivanka and Jared Kushner to the rescue!
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  #6431  
Old 24.03.2017, 08:35
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MusicChick View Post
People who voted for her are unfortunately making his work difficult. Obstructing.
Why? He should be kept in check, like every other politician. I have the feeling that the leash would have been much longer in her case, had she won, but that doesn't mean Trump doesn't need criticism. I think he can turn this in his favour if he can be wise - politically.
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  #6432  
Old 24.03.2017, 08:40
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MusicChick View Post
People who voted for her are unfortunately making his work difficult. Obstructing.
Well yes, that is an essential part of the democratic process, after all (not that I'm convinced the term applies to the US). I realise that it's quoting you out of context, but someone else already did, and it makes it look as though you think it's a bad thing, which I'm sure you don't, right?
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  #6433  
Old 24.03.2017, 08:47
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Originally Posted by Ace1 View Post
....I realise that it's quoting you out of context, but someone else already did, and it makes it look as though you think it's a bad thing, which I'm sure you don't, right?
Actually no. I re-checked the original post from MC and that is exactly the thrust of the whole wording. Maybe she didn't mean it that way (in which case she should re-write her post) but that is EXACTLY what she said.

54% of those voting didn't vote for Trump. Some 3 million more people voted for Hilary than Trump. I would say they are duty bound to oppose him in any way they can. That's democracy.

Last edited by baboon; 24.03.2017 at 09:53.
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  #6434  
Old 24.03.2017, 08:52
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

EDIT: This Post is trying to explain my stance on why Trump is not really losing support.


Hillary is not a big bad wolf, that operates on the dark and manipulates everyone, we have already concluded that she is a puppet moved by tons of Special interests.... it is just that everytime you alude to Trump being a Putin puppet it strikes me as hypocrisy and opens the chance with me to point out who is the real puppet.


After all for me it is clear that most of you are not unbiased Anti-Trumpers, you are Democrats that surround yourselves with Mainstream media.


You are not realizing that the left is continuously expanding more and more and including extremists in its ranks, just to Name a few: Antifa, neo-feminists, socialists, globalists, muslim brotherhood affiliates, "communists", and BLM.


You do not realize how you are gonna Keep losing support, and meanwhile your media is telling you that the president is gonna get impeached xD they love setting you guys up for disapointment, and that is the reason why you will Keep losing votes until you disassociate yourselves from the extremists.
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  #6435  
Old 24.03.2017, 09:05
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

Quote:
Originally Posted by baboon View Post
Actually no. I re-checked the original post and that is exactly the thrust of the whole wording. Maybe she didn't mean it that way (in which case she should re-write her post) but that is EXACTLY what she said.

54% of those voting didn't vote for Trump. Some 3 million more people voted for Hilary than Trump. I would say they are duty bound to oppose him in any way they can. That's democracy.
I don't remember quoting out of context ever, in fact. This is an EF speciality I don't subscribe to, and see it happen so often here. I asked MC because I'm interested in knowing what she meant by "obstructionism" - to me it's nothing more than the usual/democratic stuff. But maybe I'm wrong, hence the question.
Thanks, btw.
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  #6436  
Old 24.03.2017, 09:46
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

You realise most of us on here are neither Rep or Dem, being European?

I like how you class anti-fascists and socialists as extremists though, that is top, top banter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by etefan02 View Post
EDIT: This Post is trying to explain my stance on why Trump is not really losing support.


Hillary is not a big bad wolf, that operates on the dark and manipulates everyone, we have already concluded that she is a puppet moved by tons of Special interests.... it is just that everytime you alude to Trump being a Putin puppet it strikes me as hypocrisy and opens the chance with me to point out who is the real puppet.


After all for me it is clear that most of you are not unbiased Anti-Trumpers, you are Democrats that surround yourselves with Mainstream media.


You are not realizing that the left is continuously expanding more and more and including extremists in its ranks, just to Name a few: Antifa, neo-feminists, socialists, globalists, muslim brotherhood affiliates, "communists", and BLM.


You do not realize how you are gonna Keep losing support, and meanwhile your media is telling you that the president is gonna get impeached xD they love setting you guys up for disapointment, and that is the reason why you will Keep losing votes until you disassociate yourselves from the extremists.
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  #6437  
Old 24.03.2017, 09:55
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

Quote:
Originally Posted by etefan02 View Post
EDIT: This Post is trying to explain my stance on why Trump is not really losing support.

Hillary is not a big bad wolf, that operates on the dark and manipulates everyone, we have already concluded that she is a puppet moved by tons of Special interests.... it is just that everytime you alude to Trump being a Putin puppet it strikes me as hypocrisy and opens the chance with me to point out who is the real puppet.

After all for me it is clear that most of you are not unbiased Anti-Trumpers, you are Democrats that surround yourselves with Mainstream media.

You are not realizing that the left is continuously expanding more and more and including extremists in its ranks, just to Name a few: Antifa, neo-feminists, socialists, globalists, muslim brotherhood affiliates, "communists", and BLM.

You do not realize how you are gonna Keep losing support, and meanwhile your media is telling you that the president is gonna get impeached xD they love setting you guys up for disapointment, and that is the reason why you will Keep losing votes until you disassociate yourselves from the extremists.
You know this unbiased media you keep telling us you subscribe to? I don't think it's as unbiased as your angry goggles are telling you.
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  #6438  
Old 24.03.2017, 10:09
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandgrounder View Post
You know this unbiased media you keep telling us you subscribe to? I don't think it's as unbiased as your angry goggles are telling you.




I am claiming it is honest and direct... and they look at both sides of the arguments, acknowledging what is wrong and right regardless of the source.




Quote:
I like how you class anti-fascists and socialists as extremists though, that is top, top banter.

Antifa is promoting physival violence against anyone who supports Trump... socialists in the context of the activists are extremists...


Just because i call myself a "social justice warrior" it does not mean i am fighting for justice within society....


Antifa is a facist organization both in practice and ideology.... some of them are even self proclaimed anarchists("we gotta smash the system, then smash it again and continue to smash it")..


I am sorry it is obvious you dont know anything about antifa.. youa re welcome to see Videos of them, but be prepared they are known for pulling people into their mob and beating them senseless with their sticks and boots.


If you like seeing the aftermath of a paintball to the eye go watch Antifa Videos(it is just one step away from beheadings).
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Old 24.03.2017, 10:16
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

Up until now, I ignored most of what was going on as noise. For me, the big test for Trump is how he handles his health reform bill and manages (or not) to get the bill passed.
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Old 24.03.2017, 10:19
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

Quote:
Originally Posted by StirB View Post
You realise most of us on here are neither Rep or Dem, being European?

I like how you class anti-fascists and socialists as extremists though, that is top, top banter.


Your nationality and/or residence is irrelevant, there is a political sentiment growing in the entire world. The connection of Brexit, Trump, Le Pen, and even Wilder who augmented his support way beyond expectations is undeniable.


I would like to see India, Australia, Italy and maybe also Germany move in this direction(i doubt Germany will, and it would be scary because it could contribute to the entire sentiment overextending).

Last edited by etefan02; 24.03.2017 at 10:28. Reason: Compacting and Refining
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